Author Topic: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas  (Read 56428 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #180 on: August 29, 2012, 09:07:07 PM »
That picture is a little deceptive. It looks like I'm all mangled and caved in, but the only part that is actually messed up is the bump on top, which is gone now.
I know man, I was think'in...wtf he's all caved in an that thing is gonna swell up bigger than bar room Betty's.....well, glad you're not too mangled Super Trouper.... ;)
Yeah, I cut the part on my cast where it was interferring with the finger tip grip I used....cost me an additional 3 weeks of wearing the docs "repaired " cast on the right arm after ex-ray showed that one still had unhealed hair line fractures....ooops.  :-[

Enjoy...hope you have some of your "medicine" left over dude.... 8)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #181 on: August 30, 2012, 01:20:58 PM »
Well, I was able to roll out the dough today, despite my injured wrist. Due to the pain, rolling the dough was much more difficult than usual and it took considerably longer. But I managed to get it done. Woo.

Today's dough is from the same batch of dough I used yesterday, but obviously it is 24 hours older. This dough had been bulk fermenting in the refrigerator for 36 hours until I removed it and allowed it to warm up for two hours at room temperature.

After two hours out of the fridge, I divided the dough into two 8 oz pieces and did the usual rolling procedures, with one exception: With one of the layers, I applied a heavy amount of bench flour between the laminates; with the other layer I applied a very small amount of bench flour between the laminates. This is shown in the first two pics below. (Had I thought about doing this a couple seconds earlier, I probably would have completely omitted bench flour with the second layer so I could ultimately see how two very different procedures would affect the same pizza.)

After yesterday's bready pizza, I definitely wanted this one to be considerably thinner, both because I like it thinner and because I want to get an idea how the same dough behaves when it's noticeably thinner. So, as you can see in the pic below, I settled on a skin weight of 10.25 oz (TF=0.108 oz of dough per square inch), versus yesterday's 11 oz (TF=0.116).

The dough was trimmed, panned, and in the fridge at 12:45.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #182 on: August 30, 2012, 06:19:12 PM »
Although I expected today's pizza not to be very good (because the same dough wasn't very good yesterday), I'm here to inform you that today's pizza was pretty bad. The crust just didn't work. It was tough and lifeless, and this seems to tell me pretty clearly that 48% hydration is too low, and also that 0.75% ADY may be too high. Today's pizza made me realize just how good the pizza I made two days ago was.

Even though I didn't want to bake today's pizza 3 inches under stone like I did yesterday, I did it that way again, to keep from changing another variable. There just doesn't seem to be any heat in that area of the oven, and there's no sign of heat radiating from the bottom of the stone to the top of the pizza. I won't try it this way again.

Neither of the pizzas I made from this batch of dough gave me much blistering. My only explanation for this is that 48% hydration must make the dough just stiff enough to discourage the kind of blistering I had with the previous batch of dough (50% hydration). So at least for the time being (and I feel pretty good about this), the acceptable hydration window for this kind of pizza has shrunk to 49-50%.

With the next batch of dough, I'm gonna go back to 50% hydration, partly because I think 50% works best for this dough but also because I want to try to take it as easy as possible on my wrist until it heals. I'm also considering decreasing the yeast to around 63%.

Not much to say about the pics, though I am surprised to say I think this kind of pizza actually does taste better with parmesan sprinkled on top.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #183 on: August 30, 2012, 06:26:07 PM »
Two more pics (specially delivered for Mr. Bob). Having used this nibbed serving tray today for the first time in a long time, I have to say I think it's useless. In fact, it's worse than useless because the nibs make it very difficult to re-cut the pizza after the cheese glues every piece back together. Also, look at the absence of grease in the second pic. If the tray did anything, there would be a lot of grease on it after being used.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #184 on: August 30, 2012, 07:13:55 PM »
Sorry to hear about today's results Ryan..but you continue to champion on, success is probably not far away...
Thanks for giving the pan a go. I think their purpose is more towards the idea of keeping steam/moisture away from the crust (more crispy) rather than a "healthy" thing to drain away grease.
FWIW...I like to put the parm in my sauce on this sort of pizza.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline chrisgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #185 on: August 30, 2012, 07:25:27 PM »
Ryan,

Have you considered applying Omid's "effective hydration" technique in place of using dough scraps?

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.0.html

The couple of times I tried it, I was shocked how much more sourdough flavor the crust had.  Might be a good alternative if no scraps are available.

Basic technique: 2 hours ahead of making dough, mix a portion of flour/water (only) to a batter consistency.  If memory serves...the ideal temp. to hold the starter was 65F or so.


Offline chrisgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #186 on: August 30, 2012, 07:27:28 PM »
That picture is a little deceptive. It looks like I'm all mangled and caved in, but the only part that is actually messed up is the bump on top, which is gone now. It hurts pretty bad if I move it certain ways, though. Maybe it's just a sprain, but it feels like a little more than a sprain.

Heh, I broke my thumb once while bowling. (Yes, I apparently am a total klutz.) I had just finished my pizza delivery shift, and I went to the bowling alley to practice late at night while they had boogie bowling going on. The synthetic approaches at this place were always slick as hell, so I slipped and fell on my left thumb, hyperextending it. It didn't really hurt that bad after a while, but they prescribed me some enjoyable painkillers. Thankfully it was my non-bowling thumb. (Incidentally, the thumb fracture was about an inch from where the current pain is.)

Was that the bowling alley across the street from Tommy's?  ;D

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #187 on: August 30, 2012, 08:16:57 PM »
Was that the bowling alley across the street from Tommy's?  ;D

Heh, heh heh. No, it wasn't Fiesta Lanes. Fiesta was gone before I broke my thumb at Hillcrest, on West Broad (which closed last year).

I did bowl on a team called Fiesta Pro Shop about a year after I broke my thumb, though, at Sequoia. When Fiesta Lanes closed, their pro shop relocated to Sequoia but kept Fiesta as its name.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #188 on: August 30, 2012, 08:25:54 PM »
I went out an rolled a few frames last night....do you think this ball makes me look fat?   8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #189 on: August 30, 2012, 08:39:31 PM »
Have you considered applying Omid's "effective hydration" technique in place of using dough scraps?

You're talking about a preferment, right? If so, I've done that before. That's how I made my "Ryan Style" dough about 11 years ago after one of the owners at Da Vinci Ristorante (where I worked) told me that's how they made the dough for their pizza, which was a minor menu item but was really good.

I think I did a kind of preferment with at least one batch of dough in this thread, too, and I'm pretty sure I wrote about it. (I think I remember DNA Dan commenting after I did that, so if you go back about 5 pages and look for DNA Dan, you might find it pretty easily.)


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #190 on: August 30, 2012, 08:49:20 PM »
Basic technique: 2 hours ahead of making dough, mix a portion of flour/water (only) to a batter consistency.  If memory serves...the ideal temp. to hold the starter was 65F or so.

I should read the entire post before I respond.

Sounds like you're talking about something like autolysis. No, I haven't done that. (I have made my own naturally fermented starter before, though, which is kinda like doing that but for a lot longer.)

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #191 on: August 30, 2012, 09:40:57 PM »
I went out an rolled a few frames last night....do you think this ball makes me look fat?   8)

No, but my computer screen on safe mode does.

Offline chrisgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #192 on: August 30, 2012, 10:15:39 PM »
I should read the entire post before I respond.

Sounds like you're talking about something like autolysis. No, I haven't done that. (I have made my own naturally fermented starter before, though, which is kinda like doing that but for a lot longer.)

Something different happens when you leave out the salt & yeast.  Technical explanation @ reply #119

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.100.html

also see reply #404

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.400.html

Just another variation to consider!

PS I've read this entire thread many times over the past couple of years.  Thanks again for taking the time to document all of this!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 10:18:27 PM by chrisgraff »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #193 on: August 31, 2012, 03:49:53 PM »
I know I sometimes use a ton of words to say what shouldn't take many words, so let's see if I can continue that trend.

I made dough last night at about 9:20, but let's just call it 9:00 because that's easier. I made a couple small changes from the previous batch (hydration and yeast). Here's my latest dough:

100% KAAP flour
50% Water (was 48)
0.60% ADY (was 0.75)
1% Salt

I made 20 oz of fresh dough, adding 12 oz of scraps throughout the 3 minute mix time. Straight into the fridge after mixing.

This morning at 10:00 I took out 16 oz of the dough (13-hour cold bulk ferment) and let it warm up until noon. Divided into two 8 oz chunks of dough and rolled each piece to about 12" x 12". I used heavy bench flour between the four laminates of each layer, but no bench flour between the two layers. (Didn't bother taking pictures this time because I think I've shown these procedures enough times already.)

Rolled the two layers together and trimmed the skin to what appears to be 10.36 oz (TF=0.109 oz of dough per square inch), which I most certainly would not have been able to share with you if I had not taken this picture.

I'm gonna turn on the oven now, which means I should be eating this pizza in about an hour. Recap in a few.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #194 on: August 31, 2012, 09:50:05 PM »
Well, I hope Ryan doesn't mind but while we're waiting for him to return with his recap I thought I'd take a quick moment to tell you about that guy holding the bowling ball 5 frames up. His name is Randy Hannah and he is a life long league bowler and is an inspiration to many people around him. You see, Randy didn't bowl his first 300 game until after an accident at his job caused him to loose one of his legs. He didn't give up...he persevered. Ryan reminds me of that type of character quality.
http://www.bowl.com/news/newsdetails.aspx?id=12884902117
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #195 on: August 31, 2012, 10:00:25 PM »
Until about a week ago, I was baking at 500 for 12 minutes on the pan, followed by another 2 minutes directly on the stone. Then I started baking for 10 minutes on the pan, followed by another 2 minutes directly on the stone.

Here's one thing I realized today, which I probably should have realized a week ago: The shorter bake time is not working. The shorter bake time is what's causing my recent crusts not to bubble how they normally bubble. (They're still bubbling, but not until I transfer the pizza to the stone.) Also, as a result of the shorter bake time, it has been difficult for me to get the pizza off the pan. Then it just doesn't finish quite right once I finally get it off the pan and onto the stone.

Still, tonight's pizza was good; much better than the last two pizzas, but nowhere near as good as the pizza from three days ago.

It's amazing how much difference there is between a crust with 48% hydration and a crust with 50% hydration. I'm probably not gonna go any lower than 50% until my wrist heals because it's been really hard for me to roll the dough, even at 50%. (After a couple days to think about it, I'm still pretty sure I broke something in there, but I still don't feel like it's bad enough to bother getting an x-ray.) I really want to try 49%, but it's gonna have to wait.

With the decrease in yeast for this batch, it seemed like today's dough probably wasn't quite ready to use. So I'm very curious to see how tomorrow's dough will work out. My prediction is that it will be really good.

I'm dying to make one of these pizzas in the grill, which I've never done. I'm not going to do it tomorrow, though, because I want to see how today's dough will work after another day in the same baking conditions.

As you can see in Pic 2, I moved the lower oven rack to the bottom position in the oven, which is where I baked for the first 10 minutes.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #196 on: August 31, 2012, 10:52:10 PM »
Well, I hope Ryan doesn't mind but while we're waiting for him to return with his recap I thought I'd take a quick moment to tell you about that guy holding the bowling ball 5 frames up. His name is Randy Hannah and he is a life long league bowler and is an inspiration to many people around him. You see, Randy didn't bowl his first 300 game until after an accident at his job caused him to loose one of his legs. He didn't give up...he persevered. Ryan reminds me of that type of character quality.
http://www.bowl.com/news/newsdetails.aspx?id=12884902117

That's pretty awesome, man. I know how it feels to bowl 300, having done it twice, and I know how it feels to have legs that don't do much. With these legs that don't do much anymore, I doubt that I'll ever bowl again. And if I do, it'll probably be a one-step approach or a no-step approach, which means that 150 would probably be a very good game. So to shoot 300 (with a prosthetic leg I assume)... Wow!

It looks like it's his sliding leg, too, which is a pretty damn important limb in bowling.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #197 on: September 01, 2012, 01:13:56 AM »
Did you count the number of passes you used with the rolling pin between your last two experiments? My feeling is with the lower hydration dough, you had to roll it more to get the size. You also mentioned that you wanted to make it thinner. Doing so over develops the dough and does not produce a good lamination. You end up with something like you describe, with the extreme being a hockey puck (No bubbling at all.) I think where you're at with hydration 50% or more is best for a rolling pin, but the trick is going to be minimal handling of the dough. Peter has developed some pretty good tips and tricks for this, such as minimal dough mixing (keep it like a bunch of small bits pushed together.) and warming the dough up before attempting to roll it. The less you handle it, the better it will be. This is difficult with a rolling pin for most people. That's why certain members have different ways of doing this. Keep at it, with each disappointing pie you learn what doesn't work.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #198 on: September 01, 2012, 12:56:58 PM »
Peter has developed some pretty good tips and tricks for this, such as minimal dough mixing (keep it like a bunch of small bits pushed together.) and warming the dough up before attempting to roll it. The less you handle it, the better it will be. This is difficult with a rolling pin for most people. That's why certain members have different ways of doing this. Keep at it, with each disappointing pie you learn what doesn't work.

I'm totally with you on the minimal handling, and I try my best to handle the dough as little as possible, beginning with the 3-minute mix time. In fact, I might change my next batch of dough to at least 52% hydration, partly to make it a little easier to roll (to keep from punishing it too much), even though I think 52% is too high for this dough.

The thing is, even though I usually only do this once a day, I'm trying to reproduce precisely what a pizzeria does hundreds of times a day, not what some guy (like myself) does once a day. Also, I'm trying to use procedures that will produce the same results from one pizza to the next, reliably and predictably. Obviously, since I don't have a sheeter or a commercial oven, I can't use the pizzeria methods with every procedure. So I'm already facing a huge handicap with these things. But if I take another next step away from pizzeria methods by warming up the dough, I'll be straying so far from my objective that I no longer have the same objective.

I let the dough warm up at room temperature for at least two hours, partly to make it easier to roll, but also because I suspect Tommy's probably does the same thing, and for the same reason(s). If I further warm up the dough to make it easier to roll, then I'm also gonna create the unwanted consequence of excessive fermentation when I put the skin back in the fridge. To me that complicates something that doesn't need to be complicated. Plus, I know Tommy's doesn't do that.

But I'll keep everything you said in mind because I appreciate your input and I'm always willing to recognize that I may be wrong. I mean, if I was doing everything right, this thread would be finished.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #199 on: September 01, 2012, 07:37:44 PM »
As usual, I rolled today's dough into two layers of 4 laminates. Pic 1 shows how much bench flour I used between laminates for today's dough: none.

I intended to trim the skin to about 10.5 oz (TF=0.110), but I got a little careless and ended up trimming it to about 10.1 oz (TF=0.106). Normally after I trim a dough skin, the skin quickly snaps back to a smaller diameter than the template I used to trim it. So after I've trimmed the dough, I roll it a little more, ending up with a diameter of maybe half an inch bigger than the pan I'll be using to bake the pizza. (This is why you usually can't see the pan in the pictures of my topped skins.) This means the thickness of my pizza is usually a little less than the TF figure I express in my posts. Nothing significant, but now seems to be a good time to let y'all know.

In an attempt to keep the skin about the same thickness as yesterday's skin (which weighed a little more than today's skin), I didn't roll the skin quite as big as I normally do. Instead, I rolled it to about the same size as the pan.

Pic 3: Since I usually end up with pepperoni and cheese flowing off the edges of the pizza, I topped today's pizza a little differently than normal, placing all the pepperoni at least an inch inside the circumference of the pizza.


 

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