Author Topic: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas  (Read 54927 times)

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Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #320 on: September 16, 2013, 04:13:20 AM »
And some of the finished product:  (I had to throw on a little uncured,  applewood-smoked bacon...just because.)

This was baked on pre-heated 3/8" Baking Steel at 500 degrees F.  Total bake time was 9 minutes.

While I was able to achieve some lamination, (pics 5 and 6).  Probably more typical of the slices would be the appearance in pic 7. 


continued.....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 04:42:19 AM by RockyMountainPie »


Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #321 on: September 16, 2013, 04:22:11 AM »
The crust had a nice crunch and chew, (good mouth feel) but I didn't achieve many of the blisters I was hoping for. (pics 1,2 and 3)

The 2nd pizza was a lot like the 1st, only on this one I was careful not to dock the edges very much.  (pic 4)
 I believe this did result in more rise around the cornice.

This one had pepperoni and mushrooms.


continued....

 

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #322 on: September 16, 2013, 04:33:07 AM »
The 2nd pizza also had a nice chew/crunch and good mouth feel. (pic 1)

With the dough scraps I made breadsticks. (pic 2) Highly recommended!  :)

Overall, I had a lot of fun making this pizza and we all enjoyed eating it!  I don't know if this was close to a real "Tommy's" pizza, but the process of making laminated pizza is one that teaches me a lot.

I think next time I would probably use less IDY (because of my altitude) and I would be more gentle with the docker, or maybe even try one with no docking.  Any ideas on what I can do for better lamination and to achieve more blistering?

HUGE thanks and props go out to Ryan for his work on this formula and for sharing his technique.

--Tim

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #323 on: September 16, 2013, 09:18:19 AM »
Tim,

You did a great job laying everything out. Our members will appreciate that.

And great looking pizzas too.

Peter

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #324 on: September 16, 2013, 09:07:36 PM »
Wow! I'm so thrilled that someone finally gave this a try. Too thrilled to make any sense of your posts or pictures right now. You so rule, man.

I will spend some time rereading your posts and looking over your pics when I get a chance. I really need to provide updated details of my workflow, too, because it has changed a lot since the last time I shared any of it. For example, since my current dough is stiffer than the dough I used prior to July, I no longer add bench flour between the laminates/layers. (I still use bench flour when I feel like I need it, but I use as little as possible.)

You're allowed to do whatever you want, of course, but I'm sure you'd like to know the details of the many changes I've made.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #325 on: September 17, 2013, 12:15:33 PM »
This post is partly for me, so I can see my old best-yet formula and my new best-yet formula side-by-side. If I haven't been clear, I did not make any Tommy's clones between fall 2012 and July 2013. (In fact, I didn't make any pizza or eat any pizza between January and June of this year.) According to Reply #257 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12446.msg209159.html#msg209159), it looks like my best-yet dough formula as of late 2012 was:

100% KAAP flour
56% Water
1% ADY
2% Salt

That's a very soft dough for this style; considerably softer than my current best-yet dough. Probably way too soft. I have no idea how that became my best-yet formula. It's just not good, in so many different ways. Compare it to my current best-yet formula:

100% Pillsbury AP flour
43% Water
1.5% ADY (1.15% IDY)
1.5% Salt
5% Shortening
1% Sugar

Right about the time AimlessRyan disappeared from the boards, I stopped using KAAP and started using other flours; mainly Pillsbury AP. After using KAAP almost exclusively up to this point (for my Tommy's clones), switching to Pillsbury AP taught me real quick that I don't like KAAP. Also, one thing I quickly learned after making the switch, at least with deep dish dough, is that Pillsbury flour needs a lot more water than KAAP. With Pillsbury AP, if I wanted to make deep dish dough that handled similarly to dough made of KAAP, I needed to use 4% or 5% more water. Which means if I tried to make Tommy's dough out of KAAP today, I'd decrease the hydration figure to 40% (and I'd probably end up using more like 38-39% hydration).

If I was to make a batch of dough using the top formula, but with Pillsbury or Gold Medal AP flour, I would probably need to increase the hydration to 60% if I wanted it to handle the same as the KAAP dough. If you intend to try making more of these pizzas, Tim, I think you should pick up a bag of Pillsbury or Gold Medal AP next time you go shopping. It makes a big difference, especially if you're really trying to replicate my results. I might make another one or two of these pizzas this week so I can take pictures of every step of my workflow, as well as to compare the look of my dough to yours.

Man, I have a ton to say in response to all your new posts (and pictures), but it might take a while. Since I didn't already say it, I want to say your pizzas look awesome. I'm just so flattered that someone finally tried to do this (and took tons of pictures to share, and whatnot). (Actually, someone else has tried it, after finding my blog, but I haven't been able to see his results or stay in regular contact with him.)

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #326 on: September 17, 2013, 02:36:00 PM »
Tim,

You did a great job laying everything out. Our members will appreciate that.

And great looking pizzas too.

Peter

Thanks Peter.  I hope someone benefits from my post.  I always find it helpful and enjoyable when members post pictures.

- Tim

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #327 on: September 17, 2013, 02:42:49 PM »

Man, I have a ton to say in response to all your new posts (and pictures), but it might take a while. Since I didn't already say it, I want to say your pizzas look awesome. I'm just so flattered that someone finally tried to do this (and took tons of pictures to share, and whatnot). (Actually, someone else has tried it, after finding my blog, but I haven't been able to see his results or stay in regular contact with him.)

Ryan,

Thanks for telling me my pizzas look awesome.  I'm glad I could contribute a little.  It does seem that AP flour often works well for thin crust pizzas.  I'll have to get some Pillsbury and try the recipe out again using that.  I'm looking forward to seeing more of your posts on this topic.  Keep up the good work!  :D

--Tim

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #328 on: September 25, 2013, 02:02:41 PM »
Hey Tim,

Sorry I haven't posted any of the stuff I said I was going to post. I've been through some serious BS lately (like being forced to spend five days in the OSU nut house), and right now is the first time I've even been able to look at the boards since almost immediately after my most recent post. This whole experience really kinda sucked the life out of me, at least temporarily, so it might be a while before I have enough focus and energy to compose the posts I said I'd be sharing.

In case you're wondering: No, I'm not crazy, which is one big reason why I don't mind revealing that I was stuck in a looney bin for five days.

The good news is that I may be getting my own place to live soon, in Grandview Heights (a couple miles from downtown Columbus). Right now I live in the middle of nowhere, in far southwest Franklin County, where I spend almost all my time in isolation. Due to multiple sclerosis, I'm pretty much unable to work. So now that I'll soon have a lot of very close neighbors and a lot of time to pass, I intend to quickly make friends with the neighbors, then invite them and their friends over for pizza regularly (even though I'll eat very little of the pizza because I'm easing back into a very strict MS diet).

Man, I just love making pizza for people and learning more about pizza every time I make one. You can't just abandon your greatest passions, even when you can't really partake of them how you once did. Without pizza in my life, I'm just about dead inside. But with too much pizza in my body, I get kinda dead inside in a totally different way. But y'know what? I learn from it, and I'm gonna make this work out beautifully.

I'll try to follow up on my promise ASAP, but it might take some time.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #329 on: September 25, 2013, 02:16:54 PM »
Hey, I just noticed that I have 1,012 posts (rather than 155 or so), which seems to indicate that AimlessRyan and Aimless Ryan are now one in the same. (I wonder how they figured out that I'm actually AimlessRyan!) I'm almost 100% sure Peter had a lot to do with making this happen. So thank you very much, Peter (as well as anyone else who bears any co-responsibility for making it happen). I appreciate it a whole bunch.


Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #330 on: September 25, 2013, 11:39:46 PM »
Hey Tim,

Sorry I haven't posted any of the stuff I said I was going to post. I've been through some serious BS lately (like being forced to spend five days in the OSU nut house), and right now is the first time I've even been able to look at the boards since almost immediately after my most recent post. This whole experience really kinda sucked the life out of me, at least temporarily, so it might be a while before I have enough focus and energy to compose the posts I said I'd be sharing.

In case you're wondering: No, I'm not crazy, which is one big reason why I don't mind revealing that I was stuck in a looney bin for five days.

The good news is that I may be getting my own place to live soon, in Grandview Heights (a couple miles from downtown Columbus). Right now I live in the middle of nowhere, in far southwest Franklin County, where I spend almost all my time in isolation. Due to multiple sclerosis, I'm pretty much unable to work. So now that I'll soon have a lot of very close neighbors and a lot of time to pass, I intend to quickly make friends with the neighbors, then invite them and their friends over for pizza regularly (even though I'll eat very little of the pizza because I'm easing back into a very strict MS diet).

Man, I just love making pizza for people and learning more about pizza every time I make one. You can't just abandon your greatest passions, even when you can't really partake of them how you once did. Without pizza in my life, I'm just about dead inside. But with too much pizza in my body, I get kinda dead inside in a totally different way. But y'know what? I learn from it, and I'm gonna make this work out beautifully.

I'll try to follow up on my promise ASAP, but it might take some time.

Hi Ryan.  So sorry to hear of your health problems.  Don't worry about posting (or baking) until you feel like it. Health always comes first.  :). I think it's a great idea to get to know your neighbors and invite them and their friends over for pizza.  There's something universal about pizza that brings people together.  Your prospective neighbors don't know it yet, but they are in for a treat!  Even if you don't eat a lot of it, I'm sure you will get a lot of enjoyment from fixing it for others and seeing how much they enjoy it.

Tim

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #331 on: September 28, 2013, 01:47:39 PM »
I've been rereading this entire thread, and I'm at Reply #200 right now (page 11), which is from just over a year ago (which was shortly before I stopped making this kind of pizza for the better part of a year).

Man, I was so wrong up until recently, when I started making these pizzas again, using a much different dough formula and many procedural changes, including at least a few drastic changes. I like this thread because it shows the evolution of how I got to where I am today with this style of pizza, but I also don't like this thread because I now see it as misleading and confusing. Tim, I can only imagine how much brain power you had to put into deciphering and interpreting the many pages of conflicting information I've provided throughout this thread. Consequently, I'm about ready to start drafting a new post to reflect, in detail, how I've been making this style of pizza lately.

You deserve better than the unstable foundation I've built for you. And once I build the new foundation, you'll be very happy (if you attempt to make this style of pizza again).
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 01:00:25 PM by Aimless Ryan »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #332 on: September 29, 2013, 04:44:53 PM »
Since Iíve recently realized much of what Iíve shared throughout this thread is pretty confusing, and since most of the information has become essentially useless (due to my recent giant steps forward with this style of pizza), I've decided to create a thorough list of instructions for how Iíve made my Tommyís style pizzas lately (which have been phenomenal). I realize my posts throughout this thread tend to be very wordy, difficult to follow, and even contradictory, so Iíve tried very hard to simplify everything here, but without sacrificing important information.

Considering Tim is the only person who has tried to replicate my results, Iíve kind of personalized some of the details below to suit what seems to be his inclinations. For example, I calculated a recipe that makes just enough dough for two 15Ē pizzas. My recipe and prep instructions already account for scrap dough, so you wonít have to worry about figuring that stuff out on your own. If anyone would like me to share a recipe scaled for just enough dough to make any number of other sized pizzas (or anything that would need to be individualized using my spreadsheet), just let me know. Iíll happily share the information. In fact, Iíd probably also be willing to share the spreadsheet, although Iím a little hesitant because it seems most people find the spreadsheet confusing (even though it's freaking awesome).

Attention: Rolling this dough takes a lot of hard work. Iím not gonna try to make you think this is remotely easy, because it's not. I think I said recently that it takes about 15 times as much work as it would take with a sheeter. Well, I want to change that to 30 times as much time/work, because it takes me at least half an hour to roll and trim each 15" Tommy's style skin, which is something I think would take about a minute with a sheeter.

So hereís my current best-yet dough formula:

100% Pillsbury AP flour
43% Water
1.5% ADY
1.5% Salt
5% Shortening
1% Sugar

To make 44 oz (1,247 g) of dough, which is enough for two 15Ē pizzas (and will leave you with about 12 oz of scrap dough), use:

28.95 oz Pillsbury AP flour
12.45 oz Water
0.43 oz ADY (4.34 tsp)
0.43 oz Salt (2.52 tsp)
1.45 oz Shortening
0.29 oz Sugar (2.37 tsp)

or

821 g Pillsbury AP flour
353 g Water
12 g ADY
12 g Salt
41 g Shortening
8 g Sugar

Also, you'll be shooting for a thickness (or TF) of 0.09 oz of dough per square inch. For a 15" pizza, that means your target skin weight will be 15.9 oz (451 g).

DO NOT ADD EXTRA WATER TO THE DOUGH. For the laminated texture of the crust to turn out right, this dough needs to be very stiff; stiffer than the dough appears in Timís pics. The dough will seem noticeably softer after it ferments, but it will still be very stiff. As long as itís not hard on your mixer, give your mixer plenty of time to mix the dough. That is, mix it until all the flour is picked up. With the common (tilting head) model of KitchenAid mixer, I donít know what to expect (because I have a bigger model with a bowl lift and spiral dough hook). If this dough is too hard on your mixer, then I guess you need to get creative and find some kind of mixing trick. (If a dry climate really does make a noticeable difference in the stiffness of the dough, the formula should be adjusted to account for that, rather than adding spoonfuls of extra water to the dough while it's mixing. I feel pretty confident speculating that a dry climate should not necessitate any greater than a 2% hydration increase.)

Iím still working on figuring out the best way to do a lot of the following stuff because I know thereís a better way than how Iíve been doing it. But hereís how Iíve been doing it lately.


Part I: Making the Dough
  • Measure the ADY and put it in a custard dish.
  • Measure the water (100-110 degrees), then pour about 1.5 oz of it into the custard dish.
  • Add a pinch of sugar to the yeast water and stir well.
  • Measure the flour and add it to your mixing bowl.
  • Measure the salt and add it to the mixing bowl.
  • Measure the sugar and add it to the mixing bowl.
  • Stir the flour/salt/sugar mixture.
  • Measure the shortening and add it to the mixing bowl.
  • When the yeast water is foamy, add it to the mixing bowl.
  • Add the rest of the water to the mixing bowl.
  • Mix with a dough hook until there is no loose flour.
  • Set aside mixer bowl and cover it.
  • Let the dough bulk ferment for about four hours at room temperature.
  • Punch down the dough.
  • Cover and refrigerate the dough overnight.

Part II: Managing and Prepping the Dough
  • Remove the dough from fridge several hours before you intend to make pizza.
  • If youíll be making 15Ē pizzas, divide the dough into four relatively square 11 oz pieces. (Do not knead, agitate, or round the dough.)
  • For each pizza you intend to make today, set aside two pieces of dough and cover. (If you only intend to make one pizza, bag and refrigerate all but two of the dough pieces.)
  • Allow the covered dough to warm up for an hour or two.
To avoid confusion, Iíll word the remainder of the instructions as if youíll only be making one pizza. If you plan to make more than one pizza, I think you know how to translate.
  • Use your fist to flatten one of the two dough pieces.
  • Dredge this piece of dough in flour, covering the entire surface of the dough.
  • Begin rolling the piece of dough, trying to keep it relatively square. (I find that itís easiest to do this by orienting the dough at a 45-degree angle, like a baseball diamond, so itís easy to roll the dough equally in every direction.)
  • When the dough begins sticking to the counter enough that it becomes difficult to roll, add a small amount of bench flour to the top of the dough and spread it around with your hand until the dough does not feel sticky.
  • Flip the dough over and repeat the previous step.
  • Continue rolling, as before.
  • Repeat steps 4-6 until the dough is as thin as you can roll it. Itís very important that you roll it until it is as thin as you can possibly roll it. Try to use only as much bench flour as it takes to keep the dough from being sticky. The dough should end up in the neighborhood of 20Ē x 20Ē, if not a little larger.
  • When you can no longer roll the dough any thinner, dust each side lightly with flour, spreading the flour around with your hand until the dough does not feel sticky.
  • Fold the dough in half (so itís a rectangle), then fold it in half the other way, so itís a square with four layers. (This step is just to make the dough easier to pick up and move out of the way so you can roll the second dough piece.)
  • Set the folded piece of dough somewhere out of the way and repeat steps 1-8 with the other piece of dough.
Hereís how to turn the dough into a skin.
  • Unfold the dough sheet that you had set aside and place it atop the sheet that's already on your work surface, with both dough sheets oriented the same way.
  • Fold the stacked sheets of dough in half so the dough takes the form of a rectangle with four layers (like a magazine with a front cover, two pages, and a back cover).
  • Fold the dough again, lengthwise, so itís relatively square, with eight layers.
  • Use a fist to press the dough as much as possible (sorta like a dough press).
  • Start rolling the dough. (Again, orient it like a baseball diamond.)
  • As soon as you feel like the eight layers of dough have become what seems to be a single layer of dough, dust each side lightly with flour.
  • Continue rolling, trying to keep a relatively square shape. You may want to focus largely on rolling the outer perimeter of the dough. Doing this helps me end up with skins of very consistent thickness. You really want to work the corners, too, redistributing some of the corner dough toward the sides. (I know that's hard to understand. I'll try to share a picture eventually, depicting this step.)
  • Try to use as little bench flour as possible. You want the dough to stick to the counter a little bit, but not too much. Whenever the dough becomes sticky enough to cause wrinkling, dust each side of the dough just enough to keep it from feeling sticky, then continue rolling.
  • Continue doing this until the dough is larger than a 16Ē screen or pan. (ď16Ē is not a typo. Iíll explain later.)
  • When the dough is larger than the pan or screen, use a pizza wheel to trim a 16Ē skin. (Use the pan or screen as a template.)
  • Weigh the skin. At this point, the skin will probably be at least a couple ounces heavier than your target skin weight of 15.9 oz (451 g).
  • Place the skin back on your work surface. (When you do this, the skinís diameter will probably be at least a few inches smaller than it was when you trimmed it. This is normal, so donít freak out about it.)
  • Continue rolling the skin. You probably wonít need to use much (or any) bench flour from this point on.
  • When the skin gets larger than 16Ē again, use the pan or screen again as a template to trim the dough.
  • Weigh the dough. Again, your target weight is 15.9 oz (451 g).
  • If your skin is still too heavy, continue rolling, trimming, and weighing until your skin is an acceptable weight.
  • If your skin is within about half an ounce of your target weight, all is good, so put the skin back on your work surface so you can add the final few touches. (The skin probably will have shrunk again, so youíll need to roll it a little more.)
  • Without using any bench flour, roll the skin to about 16Ē again. It should be kinda stuck to the counter.
  • Leave the slightly oversized 16" skin alone for 5 or 10 minutes, stuck to the counter so it can relax. By doing this, it should only shrink about an inch once you remove it again from your work surface.
  • Optional: During the 5 or 10-minute dough rest, dock the skin. (Do not dock the hell out of it. All you want is two side-by-side passes; one just left of center and one just right of center.)
  • After the rest period, put your skin on a pan or screen and cover with plastic wrap.
  • Immediately put the pan and skin in the fridge, and leave it there for 2-4 hours.

Part III: Assembing and Baking the Pizza
  • Preheat your oven at 500 with a stone in its normal position for an hour or so before you intend to bake.
  • About 15 minutes before you intend to bake, remove your skin from the fridge.
  • Remove plastic wrap from your skin. (You may want to flip the skin upside down on your work surface for about 10 minutes, exposing the bottom side to air, to make it a little drier and easier to peel the topped skin onto your stone.)
  • Lightly dust a peel with flour.
  • Place your skin on the peel (with docking marks on the top of the skin if you docked the dough).
  • Add the amount of sauce that you consider appropriate, distributing the sauce all the way to the edge of the skin. My spreadsheet says to use 9.39 oz (266 g) of sauce, but Iím not sure if thatís very accurate. Itís OK to apply sauce by feel.
  • Apply 10.89 oz (309 g) of provolone or mozzarella.
  • If youíll be making a pepperoni pizza, try 5.68 oz (161 g) of pep. (Ezzo GiAntonio is ideal.)
  • If youíll be using other toppings, use a quantity you deem appropriate.
  • Sprinkle some parmesan or romano cheese on top of the pizza. (Regular grated cheese, like Kraft. None of that horrible "fancy" looking shredded stuff. If you use that nasty shredded stuff, I'll kick your ass.)
  • Peel onto stone.
  • Set a timer for 8 minutes.
  • If youíre baking at 500, itíll probably take at least 8 minutes to bake this pizza, but not more than 10 minutes.
  • While the pizza is baking, keep a bubble popper handy and keep an eye on the pizza in case you need to use the bubble popper.
  • After baking for 8-10 minutes (or however long you deem appropriate, pull the pizza from the oven.
  • Cut into squares of about 2Ē. For a 15Ē pizza, youíll probably want to go 4 cuts x 4 cuts, or possibly 5 x 5. (As you should be able to tell from me and briterianís actual Tommyís pics earlier in this thread, the cutting pattern seems to be one of many inconsistencies with Tommyís pizza.)
  • Pig out.
Any questions?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 06:06:47 PM by Aimless Ryan »

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #333 on: September 29, 2013, 10:38:43 PM »
Very nice Ryan.  :D

Thanks for putting all of the ingredients and steps together in one helpful post.  I would like to try this recipe of yours in the coming weeks.  I have a couple other recipes in line, but yours is definitely in the que.  :drool:

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #334 on: September 30, 2013, 03:44:28 AM »
 ^^^

Excellent write up, Ryan.  This guide of yours will be very helpful for me and everyone else who decides to give your Tommy's clone a try.  Well done!

--Tim

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #335 on: September 30, 2013, 11:58:48 AM »
Thank you, guys. I now realize I should have written a post like that a long time ago. But I guess I just tend to get so focused (tunnel-vision) that I can't always see the bigger picture.

Tim, you used a couple ingredients that I've never used but which I think may be good for this style of pizza (and may be ingredients of actual Tommy's dough). Without going back to look at your post, the one thing I remember most was the King Arthur bag, which I believe was non-diastatic malt powder. (Aside from the recent discussion about that stuff, the label on your package also caught my interest, mostly because it mentions 'smooth' or 'shiny,' which is a characteristic I think is shown in my most recent actual Tommy's pics but not my pizzas.) The other ingredient, I believe, was nonfat dry milk. I'd definitely like to get my hands on some of the malt powder.

One thing I've been wondering: Did you refrigerate your folded half-skins because you thought I do it that way, or did you intentionally stray from my workflow just to try something a little different? Because I don't do that, and I suspect the fact that you did may be part of why you didn't get much of a layering effect in your crust. (Another reason, I suspect, is that you added extra water.) I need to go back and reread your series of posts that recap your Tommy's style pizzas.

Ern, I hope you do give it a try before long. As I'm already familiar with your work, I think it would be really cool to see how your interpretation of this pizza turns out.

One more thing. My sauce for this style is:

28 oz Dei Fratelli crushed tomatoes.
2 tsp oregano
1/2 tsp basil
1/2 tsp salt
Optional: Just a little crushed red pepper (even though I don't think Tommy's uses it). Maybe 1/2 tsp.

I don't really like Dei Fratelli tomatoes, but they seem to be the best option so far, considering their availability (at least around here), as well as the fact that it may be just about the same product Tommy's uses. As Zing pointed out many pages back, after I posted a picture of Tommy's tomato product packaging (Star Cross crushed tomatoes), Star Cross and Dei Fratelli are both packed by the Hirzel Canning Company of Toledo, Ohio.

If you have access to Stanislaus Full-Red pizza sauce (or Full-Red "Concentrated Crushed," which is the same thing), get a can of that and try 22 oz + 6 oz of water, rather than 28 oz of Dei Fratelli.

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #336 on: October 01, 2013, 03:15:06 AM »

Tim, you used a couple ingredients that I've never used but which I think may be good for this style of pizza (and may be ingredients of actual Tommy's dough). Without going back to look at your post, the one thing I remember most was the King Arthur bag, which I believe was non-diastatic malt powder. (Aside from the recent discussion about that stuff, the label on your package also caught my interest, mostly because it mentions 'smooth' or 'shiny,' which is a characteristic I think is shown in my most recent actual Tommy's pics but not my pizzas.) The other ingredient, I believe, was nonfat dry milk. I'd definitely like to get my hands on some of the malt powder.

One thing I've been wondering: Did you refrigerate your folded half-skins because you thought I do it that way, or did you intentionally stray from my workflow just to try something a little different? Because I don't do that, and I suspect the fact that you did may be part of why you didn't get much of a layering effect in your crust. (Another reason, I suspect, is that you added extra water.) I need to go back and reread your series of posts that recap your Tommy's style pizzas.


Ryan,

I actually added 3 new ingredients to the recipe.   ;) One was the Non-Diastatic malt powder, the 2nd was the Baker's Non Fat Dry Milk, and the 3rd was the Durkee Garlic Romano Sprinkle.  The malt powder, while great to make vanilla malts (you need a least 1/4 cup) has never really impressed me with adding much flavor to dough.  DNA Dan has also tried it and I think, concluded the same thing -- it doesn't really add any "malty" flavor to dough in these low quantities and is used, basically, instead of sugar in recipes.  It may add some shine to your crust but I'm not so sure about that either.

The Baker's Dry milk is a great "secret ingredient" that some people add to all of their crusts because they like what it does to it.  For instance see this thin crust recipe by BTB: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18966.msg185270.html#msg185270 

The Durkee Garlic Romano Sprinkle is one thing I've found (again, thanks to DNA Dan) that really adds flavor to the crust.  The smell of this in my dough makes me happy.

I did refrigerate the folded half-skins because I thought you did it that way, but a bulk rise prior to the folding makes more sense.  (Those little dough pillows did look cool though, huh?)

--Tim
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 03:17:43 AM by RockyMountainPie »

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #337 on: October 01, 2013, 01:06:36 PM »
Tim:

How much of the Durkee/Tone's Parmesan garlic powder, non-diastatic malt powder, and the Baker's Non Fat Dry Milk do you add to the recipe?  These are ingredients I have toyed around with in recipes that I have used - not as much the parmesan garlic powder as the other 2.  The other ingredients I tend to use around .75-2% depending on the recipe.

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #338 on: October 01, 2013, 11:01:35 PM »
Tim:

How much of the Durkee/Tone's Parmesan garlic powder, non-diastatic malt powder, and the Baker's Non Fat Dry Milk do you add to the recipe?  These are ingredients I have toyed around with in recipes that I have used - not as much the parmesan garlic powder as the other 2.  The other ingredients I tend to use around .75-2% depending on the recipe.

-ME

Hi Ernie.  For the amounts of those ingredients I tried in the Tommy's clone, I posted the recipe at the start of this post: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12446.msg279392.html#msg279392 

In general, a teaspoon of BNFDM seems to be about right for a 14 to 16 inch pizza.  The non-diastatic milk powder, I use instead of sugar in recipes, but I really think you would need at least a tablespoon of it to make a noticeable difference.  The garlic Romano sprinkle, I use about 1% to 1.5% by weight in the dough and I remove an equal amount of flour so the hydration won't change too much.

-Tim
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 11:33:08 PM by RockyMountainPie »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #339 on: October 02, 2013, 01:23:52 AM »
Tim,

It's interesting that you've made small changes in my formula to include these few additional ingredients, which I have never used. Thanks to the insight of you and others, there seems to be mounting evidence that suggests nonfat dry milk and diastatic malt powder may actually be ingredients in Tommy's dough. Since I'm so unfamiliar with these ingredients, I probably never would have thought to use them. However, I'm now looking forward to getting my hands on some of this stuff because I feel like these things will probably make my Tommy's clones even Tommier. And even if these ingredients turn out not to do that, I'm still curious to learn, through experience, how they affect my crust.

I don't think any of you guys have ever had Tommy's, so I don't know how you're coming up with this stuff. But I'm thinking it may be because y'all are seeing things in my actual Tommy's pics that have been kind of invisible to me because my focus has been in other directions. Like the brown, shiny crust in my pictures from OSU Tommy's in Reply #295 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12446.msg275692.html#msg275692). That was invisible to me for a long time, but now I see it. And one thing I see is that the browning quality of the actual Tommy's crust doesn't quite look like sugar browning to me. Also, you don't see that kind of browning in my crusts, nor any kind of sheen.

Even the parmesan garlic powder has me thinking. Garlic is not a flavor I typically associate with Tommy's pizza, but I did mention a garlic flavor last October, after my most recent Tommy's visit, in Reply #268 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12446.msg220035.html#msg220035). I wouldn't have thought the garlic flavor came from the crust, and I still don't, but you got me thinking about it. Now I'm curious to put garlic powder in a dough, just to see what it's like. Unfortunately, I don't anticipate making any pizza for at least a couple more weeks.

This just occurred to me. I believe someone asked me recently what brand of shortening I've been using, and I didn't answer. I've been using Crisco baking sticks.