Author Topic: why Italian and not American? Flour that is  (Read 3077 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« on: November 30, 2010, 05:06:17 AM »
I got thinking and I thought why all the hype for Italian.. I mean.. ok sure it's Italy... I mean I am Italian too..
but I will give praise when praise is do. and so Far American Wheat Flour has been STELLAR. not to mention cheaper and more available.
but I have no tested Caputo against American flour or other country flour. but at the end of the day WHEAT iS WHEAT isn't?
I mean does a pizza using caputo really going to win hands down everytime against another country flour?


Offline andreguidon

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1166
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Sao Paulo
  • Hot WFO always !!!
    • www.andreguidon.com
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 05:24:07 AM »
the difference is soft wheat and hard wheat... they have different results wen baked in different temperatures.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 05:41:56 AM »
the difference is soft wheat and hard wheat... they have different results wen baked in different temperatures.

sure but don't most countries have hard and soft wheat? I mean historically all civilizations planted wheat.

Offline andreguidon

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1166
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Sao Paulo
  • Hot WFO always !!!
    • www.andreguidon.com
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 06:10:28 AM »
well, not here in Brazil, the wheat here comes form Argentina and its all hard wheat and its not as good as hard wheat from the States... so for the WFO i use Italian for pizza always... now for bread and focaccia i like the hard wheat better...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2628
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 06:17:35 AM »
The difference is also in quality and blending. Caputo sources flour from all over the world and has a blend for their 00. It also has a lower protein count allowing the pizza to be light in taste and in the stomach, but actually performs like flours with higher ones. You can taste the difference. And since most of the pizzerias in Naples use this product, if you want your pizza to have that similar taste, use Caputo.

John

Offline Matthew

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2229
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 06:30:38 AM »
I got thinking and I thought why all the hype for Italian.. I mean.. ok sure it's Italy... I mean I am Italian too..
but I will give praise when praise is do. and so Far American Wheat Flour has been STELLAR. not to mention cheaper and more available.
but I have no tested Caputo against American flour or other country flour. but at the end of the day WHEAT iS WHEAT isn't?
I mean does a pizza using caputo really going to win hands down everytime against another country flour?


There's a little more to it than that.  Wheat is not wheat, like everything else there is high quality wheat & lower quality wheat.
 
In order to produce a high quality flour like you need to start off by choosing a very high quality wheat.  Caputo takes it one step further & uses only the heart of the wheat in their pizza flours.  The rate at which the wheat is milled can damage the protein & gluten, so obviously slower is better.  Alot of flours contain additives, Caputo does not; only pure wheat.  I have been using Caputo for some time now & can say without any reservation that it performs consistently good all the time.  

Matt




Offline andreguidon

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1166
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Sao Paulo
  • Hot WFO always !!!
    • www.andreguidon.com
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 06:36:03 AM »
the wheat here in Brazil is not good as american wheat, but the italian wheat that caputo uses is superior than any other flour that i used, specially for pizza...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 10:21:57 AM »
I met a pizzaiolo from Naples who went to Brazil, RIo de janerio 10 years ago, to work in a pizzeria
he told me there was no Caputo or Italian flour that they knew of, so they visited 5 mills which produced flour
they took 5 different blends came back to the pizzeria and chose the best one..
local flour..

the name of the pizzaria was.. ROSSO     ummmmmmmmmm ohhh I forget now.. ROsso something,..


and as this guy has been a pizzaiolo for 50 years, I asked him "Sempre Caputo"? --------------Always Caputo?
he replied.. NO.. sure many pizzerias use it in naples.. but I don't really like it ... I prefer another brand.

so I got thinking.. that's right.. I mean end of the day.. flour is flour and if you find a good flour and it makes a great pizza.. then thats fine. its like Coffee in Italy,, ILLY? Lavazza? huasbrandt? KIMBO? we all have our taste.
I have eaten hundreds of pizzas, plenty of napolatan pies which didn't use Caputo and some that did..
Ive moved to a country now where I can't get caputo , so I am freaking out..
if I import it will it come out as cheap as local flour, which by the way is great.. if the caputo can get here landed at a reasonable price.. I might look into it..

oh and to get that Napoli taste in the pizza.. doesn't mean I have to use Caputo.. just means I need to know how to make it properly, and that can be achieved without Caputo. just need a very good 00
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 08:44:18 PM by PizzaVera »

Offline andreguidon

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1166
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Sao Paulo
  • Hot WFO always !!!
    • www.andreguidon.com
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 01:23:17 PM »
10 years ago for sure there was no caputo, 5stagioni, divella, granarolo 00 flours available, but now there is, and i tested 5 different brands, caputo and 5stagioni are the best available here, i would love to try others... Brazilian flour is not the worst, wen i had the VPN training we used Brazilian flour because it was sponsoring the VPN class, the biggest problem is that the P/L is to hi so the dough rips before it could stretch to a desirable size, so thats wen you start to adapt and wen you don't get the best consistency and results...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 08:46:14 PM »
10 years ago for sure there was no caputo, 5stagioni, divella, granarolo 00 flours available, but now there is, and i tested 5 different brands, caputo and 5stagioni are the best available here, i would love to try others... Brazilian flour is not the worst, wen i had the VPN training we used Brazilian flour because it was sponsoring the VPN class, the biggest problem is that the P/L is to hi so the dough rips before it could stretch to a desirable size, so thats wen you start to adapt and wen you don't get the best consistency and results...

yes, I heard that from the Pizzaiolo also, I was asking him what he looks for in flour, and he said a strong flour. a flour which will not rip.


Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3435
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 08:55:38 PM »
When I tried the Caputo, I was not impressed.  It has been a while, maybe I will try it again.

Offline andreguidon

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1166
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Sao Paulo
  • Hot WFO always !!!
    • www.andreguidon.com
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 04:36:41 AM »
the other thing here in Brazil is that all flours by law are obligated to add iron and folic acid to flour, so if you don't want that you need to go organic or Italian and Italian is cheaper and wont rip...
i would like to try San Felice, but its not available yet...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Matthew

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2229
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 06:22:43 AM »
When I tried the Caputo, I was not impressed.  It has been a while, maybe I will try it again.

What didn't impress you about it?

Offline Crider

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 81
  • Location: Northern California
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 02:55:46 PM »
One of my issues is I've never been to Italy and never had a real pizza in Naples. So why kid myself with trying to make an 'authentic' pizza? White refined flour is pretty darn insipid-tasting anyway, so I think it's important to use a flour that works best for your dough fermenting methods.

I found that the lower glutin content of Caputo and Giusto's 00 flour didn't work so well for my very long sourdough ferment times in the fridge. I need more protein so that the dough won't fall apart so fast.

This year, I'm grinding my own flour at either 100% whole wheat or at an 85% extraction, so everything is radically different. Bran and germ in the dough and it doesn't get aged like white flour must be aged.

Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3435
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 03:06:46 PM »
It was 5 bucks for 2 pounds, and it behaved exactly like a 3 bucks for 5# AP flour, other than the lack of decent browning.

Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
  • Location: Boston
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2010, 03:29:46 PM »
It was 5 bucks for 2 pounds, and it behaved exactly like a 3 bucks for 5# AP flour, other than the lack of decent browning.

It's all about bulk. 55 pounds for $30. There has to be a restaurant supply around your area that sells it.

Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3435
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2010, 03:36:20 PM »
That is not the point, although I can buy high gluten for 17 bucks per 50#.  If it doesn't provide something not available with local, fresh flour, why use it?

Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
  • Location: Boston
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 04:12:07 PM »
With what I have experienced the small 2.2 pound bags that you can buy online always have moisture in them and it messes with the flour. I have never had a problem with the 4 bags of 55 pound Caputo I have bought in the last year. Only time I had problems was with the 2.2 bags I got a few times.

Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3435
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 04:26:16 PM »
There was no problem, just no advantage. 

Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3435
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: why Italian and not American? Flour that is
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2010, 04:27:50 PM »
Note that I am not trying to make Neapolitan pies, either, I like a nicely browned non-charred crust.