Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc

[norma427]

Marc, (widespreadpizza) posted about him making bagels at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11832.msg109900.html#msg109900

I did try Marc’s recipe for bagels and really liked them.  I then thought, why wouldn’t this dough work out for making a pizza.  I mixed the dough Saturday.  I used a milk kefir poolish to leaven the dough for this milk kefir bagel pizza.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11832.msg118620.html#msg118620

These are the other pictures when I baked the Fairmont pizza today.  This pizza tasted good, had good oven spring, and even browned in my oven.

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

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Norma

[norma427]

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Norma

[norma427]

end of pictures.

Norma

[Jackie Tran]

This has got to be the most rediculous thing I've heard of yet.  Making pizza with bagel dough??  

Just kidding Norma.  Pizza looks great!  Can you tell us about the taste compared to your regular pizza dough?  Was it chewier - like a bagel?  

For a REAL bagel pizza, I would think you'd have to boil the the crust first.    Just kidding.  

[widespreadpizza]

Norma,  what really gets me about this bagel recipie is the low hydration and the oven spring.  I made these again last week,  and it is amazing to me that the dough will stand up to such pressure during the rolling process,  and spring back to life when it hits the oven.  And thats without a rest or rising period.  I am happy to see that it does the same after shaping,  and without boiling.  The crumb looks great on that pizza.  Will you make it at market to see what people think?  -marc

[norma427]

This has got to be the most rediculous thing I've heard of yet.  Making pizza with bagel dough??  

Just kidding Norma.  Pizza looks great!  Can you tell us about the taste compared to your regular pizza dough?  Was it chewier - like a bagel?  

For a REAL bagel pizza, I would think you'd have to boil the the crust first.    Just kidding.  

Chau,

I know this was a different experiment.  I am trying to learn if doughs like the Tartine Bread dough and now bagel dough are the same for making a pizza. 

Thanks for saying the pizza looks great.  The taste of this pizza was better than any other pizza I made.  Since I used the milk kefir poolish, the dough was a much higher hydration, but I have no idea what hydration it was.  I just guessed the amount of poolish to add.     I used 70 grams of milk kefir and 70 grams of KABF for the poolish.  This pizza was nice and light, it wasn't chewy at all.

I wondered what would happen, when I mixed the bagel dough for this pizza.   

Norma

[Pete-zza]

This has got to be the most rediculous thing I've heard of yet.  Making pizza with bagel dough??  

Chau,

I recall Tom Lehmann writing how a given dough could be used to make many different things. I found his quote at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13250:

French or Italian bread, bagels, soft pretzels, pita bread and pizza crust can all pretty well be made from the same dough. The difference is in how you manage, shape and treat the dough in processing that gives each of these products its own characteristic.

Peter

[Essen1]

Norma,

Great-looking pizza! Excellent job. 

I always wanted to ask you...what is your cheese/sauce ratio? I'm asking because your pies always look like they have just the right amount of both.

[norma427]

Norma,  what really gets me about this bagel recipie is the low hydration and the oven spring.  I made these again last week,  and it is amazing to me that the dough will stand up to such pressure during the rolling process,  and spring back to life when it hits the oven.  And thats without a rest or rising period.  I am happy to see that it does the same after shaping,  and without boiling.  The crumb looks great on that pizza.  Will you make it at market to see what people think?  -marc

Marc,

I really don't know what hydration I used for this dough.  I will post tomorrow what formula I used.  I had to keep adding flour, but at least I did note what I did.  I added two eggs to this one dough ball, so that sure must have made the hydration higher.  
When I made the bagels you posted about in your thread, I couldn't then understand how the bagels take all that rolling and then being put in the boiling water, and still had enough alive yeast to make them rise.  The dough did rise nice, without the boiling.  Thanks for saying the crumb looks great on the pizza.  

I don't know if I will make this pizza at market.  Since the dough was made with the milk kefir poolish, that is more difficult to control.  Hopefully, I will be able to understand this dough more.  I want to see if I can make the same dough next week.

Norma

[norma427]

Chau,

I recall Tom Lehmann writing how a given dough could be used to make many different things. I found his quote at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13250:

French or Italian bread, bagels, soft pretzels, pita bread and pizza crust can all pretty well be made from the same dough. The difference is in how you manage, shape and treat the dough in processing that gives each of these products its own characteristic.

Peter

Peter,

I have also been wondering if any dough can be used to make pizza.  I do have a Auntie Anne's soft pretzel dough mix to try next, to see if it will make a successful pizza.  Thanks for posting what Tom Lehmann said.  I know I have tried the Preferment for Lehmann dough for many kinds of rolls, fried things and others, and did find that the Preferment Lehmann dough does make even bread from the same pizza dough.  I had learned though all the experiments for the Preferment Lehmann dough.

Norma

[Jackie Tran]

French or Italian bread, bagels, soft pretzels, pita bread and pizza crust can all pretty well be made from the same dough. The difference is in how you manage, shape and treat the dough in processing that gives each of these products its own characteristic.

Peter

So we are all clear, I was joking a bit with Norma as I'm usually the first to support any type of out of the box thinking and experimentation.   Thanks for the quote as this has been my suspicion all along.  I'm finding out that the tartine bread recipe is very close to my own pizza recipe but each is made with it's own specific process and shaping technique just as Tom says.  

Chau

[norma427]

Norma,

Great-looking pizza! Excellent job. 

I always wanted to ask you...what is your cheese/sauce ratio? I'm asking because your pies always look like they have just the right amount of both.

Mike,

Thanks for saying the pizza looks great.    I use 7 oz. of mozzarella cheese on my pies and 8 oz. of sauce.  That is for a 16" pizza.  I use a blend of two mozzarellas.  The one is Bella Fran and the other is Foremost 1950 brand.  

Norma

[norma427]

So we are all clear, I was joking a bit with Norma as I'm usually the first to support any type of out of the box thinking and experimentation.   Thanks for the quote as this has been my suspicion all along.  I'm finding out that the tartine bread recipe is very close to my own pizza recipe but each is made with it's own specific process and shaping technique just as Tom says.  

Chau

Chau,

I know you are joking. We both do crazy experiments.    At least we learn from them. I also had the same suspicion if bread dough and bagel dough could be made into a successful pizza.  It looks like it can.

Norma

[Essen1]

Mike,

Thanks for saying the pizza looks great.    I use 7 oz. of mozzarella cheese on my pies and 8 oz. of sauce.  That is for a 16" pizza.  I use a blend of two mozzarellas.  The one is Bella Fran and the other is Foremost 1950 brand.  

Norma

Thank you very much, Madam! 

I have not seen either of the brands you mentioned here in my area. I guess they are only available on the East Coast, perhaps?

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

On the matter of using eggs in a pizza dough, it is rare to see them used in pizza doughs. Donatos, the Midwestern pizza chain, used to use eggs, along with milk, and used to brag about using them since they were both part of a prized original family recipe, but it suddenly stopped talking about them a few years ago. If they are using those ingredients today, they most likely are not in fresh form or Donatos is super careful in their commissaries to use such ingredients properly. In the litigious business environment we find ourselves in, pizza operators are reluctant to use fresh eggs and milk because of food safety concerns and potential cross-contamination issues. Also, health departments and inspectors are not crazy about raw eggs in food products. It perhaps will not come as a surprise to you to learn that Tom Lehmann is not a fan of raw eggs at all. He also isn't crazy about fresh milk either. For some typical Lehmann PMQ Think Tank posts on the subject of eggs in a commercial setting, see http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3423&p=17983&hilit=#p17983 and http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=822&p=3764&hilit=#p3764.

I am sure that you could perhaps find a way of safely using the bagel dough to make pizzas at market, but there are risks involved that have to be taken into account.

Peter

[norma427]

Thank you very much, Madam! 

I have not seen either of the brands you mentioned here in my area. I guess they are only available on the East Coast, perhaps?

Mike,

You are more than welcome.  I purchase the mozzarellas from my distributor.  The Bella Fran is made here in Pa.  I don't know if members can purchase the other brand retail.

Norma

[TXCraig1]

I am sure that you could perhaps find a way of safely using the bagel dough to make pizzas at market, but there are risks involved that have to be taken into account.

There are lots of pasturized liquid egg products available that work great for baking.

Craig

[Pete-zza]

There are lots of pasturized liquid egg products available that work great for baking.

Craig

That was one of Tom's suggestions at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3423&p=17983&hilit=#p17983, but still with some cautions.

Peter