Author Topic: Dough not rising (Doubling)  (Read 1672 times)

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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Dough not rising (Doubling)
« on: December 04, 2010, 03:45:53 PM »
Hi from Ireland  :D My yeast foams great when mixed with sugar and 110C water but when mixed with flour etc. it doesn't double in size, I've tried all areas eg. on top of a radiator, on stove top, in cubbord etc. I use 00 pasta flour most times, any ideas??
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 03:58:21 PM »
Hi from Ireland  :D My yeast foams great when mixed with sugar and 110C water but when mixed with flour etc. it doesn't double in size, I've tried all areas eg. on top of a radiator, on stove top, in cubbord etc. I use 00 pasta flour most times, any ideas??

Pizzaboyo,

Can you post your dough recipe, including the quantities of ingredients used? I am especially interested in the type and brand of yeast used. Also, when do you typically use the dough after it has been made?

I assume that you meant to say that you used 110 degrees F water, not 110 degrees C water. Is that correct?

Peter

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2010, 04:09:23 PM »
Hi Pete, I use Allinson dried yeast,250g pasta flour "00" 150ml water 110F  :-[ 1tsp olive oil 1/2 tsp salt and 1/2tsp sugar for the yeast
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2010, 04:15:46 PM »
I use Allinson dried yeast,250g pasta flour "00" 150ml water 110F  :-[ 1tsp olive oil 1/2 tsp salt and 1/2tsp sugar for the yeast

Pizzaboyo,

How much of the Allinson dry yeast, and is it active dry yeast or instant dry yeast. Active dry yeast calls for rehydration in water at around 105 degrees F. Instant dry yeast can be added directly to the floor without first rehydrating in warm water. Do you use all of the water at 110 degrees F?

And when do you use the dough after it is made?

Peter

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2010, 04:27:00 PM »
It's avtive dry and I let the dough sit for appeox 1hr. and I use all the water
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2010, 04:47:56 PM »
It's avtive dry and I let the dough sit for appeox 1hr. and I use all the water

You still haven't told me how much yeast you use.

Peter

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2010, 06:55:33 PM »
Peter,  you may have diagnosed his problem without meaning to.  Maybe he is adding the yeast directly to the floor :-D  -marc

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2010, 07:13:00 PM »
Marc,

Ah, now I see what you are saying. I interpreted the sentence My yeast foams great when mixed with sugar and 110C water but when mixed with flour etc. it doesn't double in size to mean that the yeast was first mixed with the sugar and water and then mixed with the flour, etc. But, even then, the amount of yeast might still matter. ADY can also be added to flour rather than rehydrating it in warm water, but you should then use water at around 120-130 degrees F. Maybe Pizzaboyo can clarify and complete the story.

Peter

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2010, 08:26:23 PM »
Pizzaboyo,

How much of the Allinson dry yeast, and is it active dry yeast or instant dry yeast. Active dry yeast calls for rehydration in water at around 105 degrees F. Instant dry yeast can be added directly to the floor without first rehydrating in warm water. Do you use all of the water at 110 degrees F?

And when do you use the dough after it is made?

Peter

thats not what i meant at all,  I was being a wiseguy.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2010, 08:29:55 PM »
thats not what i meant at all,  I was being a wiseguy.

Marc,

LOL. I always use the spellchecker but now I can see what happened. I thought the typo was yours, not mine  :-D.

Peter


Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2010, 10:36:05 PM »
Peter,  it was clearly a case of spellchecker sabotage.  I just couldn't pass up the chance to bust ya.  They don't come along often.  -marc

Offline Essen1

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2010, 10:43:13 PM »
Quote
And when do you use the dough after it is made?

Peter

I think it should read "And when do you use the floor after it is made?"  :-D

Mike

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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2010, 05:58:18 AM »
Ha Ha funny men  :P why would you think spell check would change the word "floor"  ::) Anyway ,I use 1tsp of active dry yeast in the 110f water which contains the 1/2 tsp of sugar, leave it in a warm place for 15min approx and it foams up
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline buzz

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2010, 10:52:24 AM »
250 grams is about 1 cup, so 1 tsp. yeast should do the trick. How long are you kneading the dough?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2010, 11:02:06 AM »
Pizzaboyo,

You are correct that the spellchecker wouldn't have caught my typo. However, I recently discovered that the spellchecker doesn't always catch misspellings either. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

I ran your dough formulation through the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and got the following:

00 Pasta Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
Allinson ADY (1.512%):
Salt (1.116%):
Olive Oil (1.8%):
Sugar (0.797%):
Total (165.225%):
250 g  |  8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs
150 g  |  5.29 oz | 0.33 lbs
3.78 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
2.79 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
4.5 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
1.99 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
413.07 g | 14.57 oz | 0.91 lbs | TF = N/A

I really don't see anything out of line with your dough formulation. At around 1.5% ADY, you should have been able to get a very fast, highly noticeable rise, maybe within an hour or two. However, rather than trying to diagnose what happened with your dough, I would like to suggest that you use the following method next time.

First, I would take about 4 tablespoons of the formula water (150g) and heat it to around 105 degrees F. Do not add the sugar to that water. You should stir the ADY into that water and let it rehydrate, but only for about 10 minutes, not 15 minutes. 

Second, I would heat the remaining formula water (150g minus the 4 tablespoons) to around 130-135 degrees F and add it to the mixer bowl. That water temperature might seem high but you want it to be high so that the finished dough temperature is close to 90-95 degrees F. The water will actually cool down a bit anyway as it hits the cooler mixer bowl.

Third, I would add the flour, salt, sugar and oil to the water in the mixer bowl, followed by the rehydrated Allinson ADY.

The rest of the procedure should be as you have been using. Ideally, you want the finished dough temperature after kneading to be around 90-95 degrees F or thereabouts. That should speed up the fermentation process quite a bit and give you a fast and substantial rise.

It sounds like the lack of adequate rise in your case was not limited to the 00 pasta flour. I have never tried using 00 pasta flour for making pizza dough but I would think that it should work to make a pizza dough. You might try a regular bread flour next time just to rule out the 00 pasta flour as a probable cause of the problems you have experiencing. Allinson's sells many very good flours that can be used to make pizza dough. If you succeed with a flour that is intended to be used to make pizza dough, then you can try the 00 pasta flour again.

If the above protocol does not solve your problem, please take good notes and come back for further advice and/or diagnosis. If the proposed solution does work, I hope you will come back anyway to let us know that it did. In the meantime, try to keep the ADY off of the floor  ;D.

Peter

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2010, 01:23:11 PM »
Thanks for your help Pete, the formula seems to be the same as my own so I'll give your method a go next time. The re-hydration of the yeast separately sounds interesting because I've always used sugar to feed the yeast. I was only leaving the dough to rise for approx 1 hour so it's gonna be 2 next time  :) Lastly how would I know the temp of the dough?? I use a sugar thermometer for the water, do I jam that into the middle of my dough  ;) Is 150g of water meant to be 150ml???
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 01:27:35 PM by Pizzaboyo »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2010, 01:34:07 PM »
Lastly how would I know the temp of the dough?? I use a sugar thermometer for the water, do I jam that into the middle of my dough  ;)

Pizzaboyo,

I use an infrared thermometer but before that I used a digital instant read thermometer and, before that, an analog thermometer. I have a candy thermometer but I have never tried using that to test the finished dough temperature. Before deciding to invest in a new thermometer, you might try using the sugar thermometer to measure the temperature of the bulk of the water (the part not used to rehydrate the ADY). If that works and you follow the instructions I gave you, I think you should be OK. However, you might try using the sugar thermometer to measure the finished dough temperature just to see what you get.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 01:35:46 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2010, 01:44:45 PM »
I'll enjoy having a go Pete  :) What about the water quantity? Is 150g of water meant to be 150ml???
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2010, 01:58:57 PM »
What about the water quantity? Is 150g of water meant to be 150ml???

Pizzaboyo,

Ome ml weighs one gram, so 150 ml weighs 150 grams.

Peter

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Dough not rising (Doubling)
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2010, 02:22:29 PM »
Pizzaboyo,

Ome ml weighs one gram, so 150 ml weighs 150 grams.

Peter
They say a man learns something new everyday Pete  :D
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.


 

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