Author Topic: Tough Dough?  (Read 1491 times)

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Offline Jonnynashville

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Tough Dough?
« on: December 01, 2010, 11:49:44 AM »

  Greetings All!

   I have a very simple question, which might have a complex answer? I'm using the New York Style Pizza dough recipe from the archive area of this forum, but each time I make the dough it comes out of the mixer very tough and rubbery? I can be difficult to roll out and form the crust, as it seems to want to retract. The crust tastes great, but often it does not have the texture I'm looking for.

     Any ideas?

       Recipe: 3.5 cups flour
                  9 oz H20
                 1 TSB olive oil
                 1 packet of active dry yeast Fleischmann's (3/4 oz)
                 3/4 teaspoon salt


 


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2010, 01:34:19 PM »
If my math is correct, you have a hydration of 32% - which would explain why your dough is tough. 3.5 cups is around 28 oz, so 9 oz of water needs to be nearly doubled for a usable dough (IMHO). Is the 9 oz correct or a misprint?

John

Offline Jonnynashville

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 02:14:37 PM »
 Thank you for responding John..... no, 9oz of warm water is what the recipe calls for. Because I'm a new member it will not allow me to post the the link to the recipe, but you will find it on this forum in the recipe section under New York Style .php

  Here is another recipe called Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza, in this one they call for 4 1/2 oz of water for 1 3/4 cup of flour, which is very close?                                                                                     


100%, High-gluten flour (KASL), 7.14 oz. (202.26 g.), 1 3/4 c. plus 1 t.       
63%, Water*, 4.49 oz. (127.42 g.), between 1/2 and 5/8 c.
1.75%, Salt, 0.12 oz. (3.54 g.), 5/8 t.
1%, Oil (extra-virgin olive oil), 0.07 oz. (2.02 g.), a bit less than 1/2 t.
0.7%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.05 oz. (1.42 g.), a bit less than 1/2 t.
* Temp. adjusted to achieve a finished dough temperature of between 85-90 degree F
Total dough weight = 11.88 oz. (336.66 g.)
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.105
Note: All measurements U.S./metric standard
                                   
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 02:24:14 PM by Jonnynashville »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2010, 03:22:30 PM »
I think 3.5c flour is closer to 15.5oz, so the hydration of the recipe would be about 58% or so, which sounds OK.

Can you tell us more about your mixing and rising process? How long are you working the dough in the mixer, and what all happens to it from the time it comes out of the mixer until you go to strech it out before baking?

Craig
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Jonnynashville

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 03:33:15 PM »
 Hi Craig,

    I mix the dry yeast in the warm 9oz of water, put the flour and salt in the mixing bowl and add a little olive oil, I put the dough hooks on and start to slowly add the water yeast combo,....I tend to fold the dough against the hooks using a spatula. Mix about 15 mins

    I split them into 2 dough balls, lube up a couple bowls and cover with plastic wrap over night......they do balloon up nicely overnight,  would say double.

    I do add one more thing to this recipe, about a 1/2 teas of honey to the dry yeast and warm water combo.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 03:36:07 PM »
Overnight in the refrigerator?
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Jonnynashville

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 03:40:31 PM »
 Yes, Fridge or as my dad always said the "Ice Box"........is this incorrect?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 03:44:05 PM »
No, that's not a problem. Did you give it a couple hours to warm up to room temperature before you tried to strech it out?
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Jonnynashville

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 03:46:51 PM »
  Typically about an 1/2 hour to 45 mins in a warm kitchen on the bread board.......you thinking the dough has not adjusted to room temp prior to shaping?

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 03:47:03 PM »
Craig - From my google searching, 1 cup = 8 oz. Did I mess up the math?

John


Offline Jonnynashville

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 03:50:20 PM »
 Would this statement be accurate?

        “This is a very good question; many people don’t stop to consider that there is a difference at all between liquid and dry measures, so good for you! My general rule of thumb is if the recipe calls for 4 ounces of a liquid, use a liquid measuring cup. If the recipe calls for 4 ounces of a dry ingredient, use your scale"

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 04:05:47 PM »
The recipe you posted looks perfect according to the dough calculator on this site, except for the equivalent cup measures. I can say with pretty good certainty, that 1 cup equals 8oz. Use a little less than 2 cups of flour (based on the recipe, which you doubled) and see if you get a better result.

John

Offline Jonnynashville

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 04:30:28 PM »
      John,

           I just had to know, so I weighed out 3.5 cups of flour and Craig is very close, it weighs just about 16 oz.

       Using your liquid calculation you would have used a figure of 28 oz , which would have made for a soupy mess......unless I'm missing something?

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 04:35:10 PM »
The 28oz number I posted refers to the flour, not the water.

If you weighed it, and it came out where it should be, then it must be right. Here is one of the sites I was referencing:

http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/convert/measurements.html

John

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 04:45:36 PM »
Craig - From my google searching, 1 cup = 8 oz. Did I mess up the math?

John

1 cup = 8 fluid oz, not 8 oz mass.

The weight of the contents in oz would vary based on the density of the product being weighed. For flour, it would also vary on other factors such as how densly it was packed. I think 4.4oz is a fair weight approximation for 1c flour. Of course, a scale would be the better way to measure.

Craig
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2010, 04:56:05 PM »
  Typically about an 1/2 hour to 45 mins in a warm kitchen on the bread board.......you thinking the dough has not adjusted to room temp prior to shaping?

That is my guess; I think you probably need several hours at room temp (2 - 3) before you stretch it.

You might also try letting it rise for an hour or so in bulk, then put it in the refrigerator overnight, take it out the next day and let it come up to room temp still in bulk (~2 hours), then divide and shape into balls and then let rise again to a little less than double (~2 or 3 more hours). Then stretch.

Craig
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tough Dough?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2010, 05:39:12 PM »
I believe this is the dough recipe that Jonnynashville is using, before modification: http://www.pizzamaking.com/newyorkstyle.php.

Peter