Author Topic: 41" low dome WFO build  (Read 21423 times)

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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2011, 09:43:48 AM »
And three more pics.
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2011, 09:58:15 AM »
Nice Gene!  I love the charring and leoparding.  Crumb looks good too.  How did they eat compared to your 10 stone pies?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2011, 10:06:03 AM »
That's awesome Gene. How long was the cook time? Where are you positioning the fire and where are you cooking the pies? Are you turning them during the bake?


What did you think of the new peel?

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline norma427

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2011, 10:36:33 AM »
Jet_deck,

I agree, nice looking pies and crumb!  :)

Norma

Offline carbon

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2011, 01:09:52 PM »
Awesome looking pies!!  Glad to see your oven is functioning quite well.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2011, 01:48:28 PM »
Nice Gene!  I love the charring and leoparding.  Crumb looks good too.  How did they eat compared to your 10 stone pies?

Chau I believe that I can say that the authentic wfo pizzas are much better.  The propane pizzas just cant stand against these.  I don't have a good explanation, but you will see soon enough for yourself. :P


That's awesome Gene. How long was the cook time? Where are you positioning the fire and where are you cooking the pies? Are you turning them during the bake?


What did you think of the new peel?

CL

The cook time on each of them was 100 seconds.  Yes they were all rotated.  The first was 100 seconds on the floor.  The second was 80 on the floor and domed for 20.  The last was 90 on the floor and domed for 10.  65% HR, 5 hours bulk room temp, 18 hour bulk refridgerated, scaled and balled for a 4 hour room temp warmup.  ADY for yeast (which I used to much of).

The coals were in a semi circle farthest from the opening.  The perforated GI metal peel was killer.  When the warden left the kitchen, I snatched up each of the pizzas straight off the Formica countertop, and then kinda restretched them a bit.  pizza #3 (the one in the middle)  looks like naan as I botched the launch into the oven.  I put the Cento sauce about 5 tablespoons at a time into a bowl and then elevated one side so that the water could seperate a bit and it was pretty good.

Thanks for the complements. ;D
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buceriasdon

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2011, 04:11:11 PM »
Gene, Great job with both the oven, very inventive, and the pizza. ;D
Don

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2011, 07:50:08 PM »
Thanks Don.  When and where are you coming to the States?
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Offline JConk007

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2011, 09:10:08 PM »
Gene,
Great stuff !! Oven is working out quite nice! Glad the Caputo is working out for you. What was your recipe on these beauties? How much is too much I have had a few over yeasting lately myself but nowthat I have access  its cake yeast (tiny bit!)  for me from here on out.
Those GI perforated peel sure are sweet aren't they! I also used mine for the first time last sunday and was very impressed, just slipped it right under the skin, no need to even restretch! Light as a feather And they look cool too!  Enjoy!
John
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 09:12:39 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline flyboy4ual

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2011, 11:11:11 PM »
Great looking pies! 

Scott D.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2011, 10:10:36 AM »
..... What was your recipe on these beauties? How much is too much .....

I used the FB 'Perfect dough by weight' suggestion. I used only 2 gr of (proofed) ady
500gr Molino Caputo Tipo 00 flour
325gr water (65% hydration)
10gr salt
3gr active dry yeast

The cold bulk refridgerated dough looked like a train wreck.  But after scaling and balling and the 4 hour warm up it felt soooo nice.

Yes I do love the perforated peel.

Thanks Scott D.
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2011, 11:54:34 AM »
I got to the upgrade last night.  Lowe's didn't have any steel lath.  Only galvanized or aluminum.  The aluminum could melt, the galv. probably would have been ok since it is on the exterior of the dome, but not worth the risk.  So I bought about 60' of small dog chain and weaved a pattern on the roof and applied the stuff to the dog chain lath. 

The high temperature insulation that was directly on top of the stainless dome showed zero signs of deterioration.  The regular Owens/Corning home insulation that was accidentally touching the stainless dome in a few places was snow white instead of pink.  But it wasn't crystalized or crispy or hadn't turned to powder.  I will cover the new refractory mortar with the insulation and cure it slowly, maybe this afternoon.
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Offline satgan

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2011, 10:50:27 AM »
Jet Deck what happened with this oven. Do you cook a pizza, or what happened

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2011, 10:59:42 AM »
I have not cooked on it since I did the upgrade. :'(  Maybe this weekend if all goes well :)
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Offline Tampa

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2011, 01:11:20 PM »
Jet,
I'm a big fan of this thread, your oven(s), and pies.  The quote below is thought provoking.

Quote
Chau I believe that I can say that the authentic wfo pizzas are much better.  The propane pizzas just cant stand against these.  I don't have a good explanation, but you will see soon enough for yourself.

I like to think that heat is heat independent of the source: electric, propane, wood, coal, whatever.

Dave

Offline shuboyje

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2011, 03:08:14 PM »
Heat certainly is not heat.  In a wood fired brick oven you have a unique mix of all three forms of heat: convection, conduction, and radiation.  Those forms of heat in the proper places and distributions do not need to be generated by a wood fire, but emulating them via other heat sources is a major undertaking.  I think gas fired ovens in the style of fornobravo and stefano ferrara probably come the closest but nobody home building alternative ovens seems to go this route and I'm not sure I would recommend them trying without proper safety measures.  Wood is safe and simple, gas is not. 
-Jeff

Offline Tampa

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2011, 02:40:26 PM »
Jeff
Iím with you on the three heat forms, but what I was trying to say is that heat conducting from the pizza stone surface is the same independent of the heat source.  Similarly, radiation coming off of, say firebrick, is the same whether it was initially heated by wood or by gas.  Convection is a little more interesting as wood includes smoke and gas includes water vapor Ė but these differences seem like a second-order effects (to me).

I probably shouldnít have made the remark.  Iím not trying to stir the pot here, Iím just trying to figure it out for myself (and maybe others considering oven tradeoffs).  For those interested, I can say that my neighbor, Bob, has a commercial electric oven and I have a propane-fired Franken-grill/oven.  We use the same dough recipe and I canít see or taste any difference.  Similarly, another forum member was using mesquite wood chips in his oven to induce a smoky flavor.  I sent him a PM once and received a reply that he didnít taste a difference.  YMMV.
Dave


Offline RobynB

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2011, 03:30:06 PM »
I'm always curious during these debates about the actual humidity of the various heat sources.  I have heard some people state that wood is a "drier" heat source than gas, but have also been told that wood puts out a lot of moisture and is NOT a dry source.  I guess there is probably a difference in natural gas vs propane?  I just know it was confusing when I was shopping WFO vs gas/propane pizza ovens before I settled on a WFO, as I had one source tell me wood heat is drier than gas and therefore better for pizza, and another source tell me the exact opposite, and a couple sellers tell me there is no difference in humidity of heat source while others said there was a dramatic difference.  I went with the WFO for a lot of reasons, but this question was never answered to my satisfaction.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2011, 03:54:25 PM »


I probably shouldnít have made the remark.  Iím not trying to stir the pot here, Iím just trying to figure it out for myself (and maybe others considering oven tradeoffs).  For those interested, I can say that my neighbor, Bob, has a commercial electric oven and I have a propane-fired Franken-grill/oven.  We use the same dough recipe and I canít see or taste any difference.  Similarly, another forum member was using mesquite wood chips in his oven to induce a smoky flavor.  I sent him a PM once and received a reply that he didnít taste a difference.  YMMV.
Dave


I'm glad that you commented on it.  I think it is important for someone to know what the exact performance of any heated device to cook pizza in, would be.
I feel less silly standing in front of the low dome build, stoking the fire with a barley pop in the other hand, than I would standing in front of the 10 stone with a barley pop in both hands.  Hope that helps. :-D
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2011, 10:06:58 PM »
In a wood fired oven you have conduction from the floor, radiation from the walls and dome, radiation from the coals(which is a hugely overlooked heat source IMHO), and convection from the fire.  I've never seen a oven other then a wood fired black oven that gets all of these.  Most lack either the proper convection, the radiation off the coals, or both.  It doesn't mean you can't make great pizza, just means it's not the same as cooking in a wood fired oven.  And again, complicated as some of us may make them, wood fired ovens are simple.  It's basically a pile of stone covered in a pile of insulation with a cavity inside for fire and pizza.  Much easier for the home builder to master then properly gas fitting safety shut-offs, installing high temperature convection fans, etc.  Biggest downside to wood fired ovens is the size they need to be to contain the fire and the pizza at the same time.  My old oven was 30" internal diameter and I felt that was just too small for example. 

Since my last post here I've been thinking and researching a bit on reverse engineering the Avanzini Drago burner which is the burner I mention earlier used in the best gas fired ovens.  A small easy to build or cheap to buy version of this could really change the landscape of home pizza ovens in my opinion because the oven only needs to be slightly larger then the pizza you want to cook.  There's only so much time in the day so if anybody else wants to take up that project feel free, lol.
Jeff
Iím with you on the three heat forms, but what I was trying to say is that heat conducting from the pizza stone surface is the same independent of the heat source.  Similarly, radiation coming off of, say firebrick, is the same whether it was initially heated by wood or by gas.  Convection is a little more interesting as wood includes smoke and gas includes water vapor Ė but these differences seem like a second-order effects (to me).

I probably shouldnít have made the remark.  Iím not trying to stir the pot here, Iím just trying to figure it out for myself (and maybe others considering oven tradeoffs).  For those interested, I can say that my neighbor, Bob, has a commercial electric oven and I have a propane-fired Franken-grill/oven.  We use the same dough recipe and I canít see or taste any difference.  Similarly, another forum member was using mesquite wood chips in his oven to induce a smoky flavor.  I sent him a PM once and received a reply that he didnít taste a difference.  YMMV.
Dave

-Jeff

Offline Tman1

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2011, 10:31:35 PM »
I'm always curious during these debates about the actual humidity of the various heat sources.  I have heard some people state that wood is a "drier" heat source than gas, but have also been told that wood puts out a lot of moisture and is NOT a dry source.  I guess there is probably a difference in natural gas vs propane?  I just know it was confusing when I was shopping WFO vs gas/propane pizza ovens before I settled on a WFO, as I had one source tell me wood heat is drier than gas and therefore better for pizza, and another source tell me the exact opposite, and a couple sellers tell me there is no difference in humidity of heat source while others said there was a dramatic difference.  I went with the WFO for a lot of reasons, but this question was never answered to my satisfaction.

If you think about all the old houses that were heated with a wood stove, they all had a kettle or pot of water, on them to provide some humidity. It always seems dry in a cabin that only has a fireplace or wood stove heating it.
The moisture in improperly dried wood that is burned turns into black smoke and won't provide the same kind of BTU's a properly dried. It will be easy to spot wood that isn't dried properly when it's burning in the WFO.. you'll have a ton more smoke. Remember where you bought those logs from and do not give them repeat business.

With all this said, I'd rather Jet be working on his diving arm mixer.   ;D

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2011, 11:32:50 PM »
....because the oven only needs to be slightly larger then the pizza you want to cook.... 

I saw those also.  Several big name oven builders use them for "additional heat" or "additional heat on demand"  But the ovens that people  are building with the conventional 'cajun burner' or turkey fryer burner, are building them only slightly larger that the pizza they want to cook already.  I see the benefit in a larger scale build.  But dam, it is going to take alot of propane...
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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2011, 09:08:53 AM »
Tman,  if I am not mistaken,  the reason for the teapot on the woodstove is that the large fires used lagre amouts of air for combustion that ended up going outside the house.   Add to that the loose construction of older houses and it was not hard at all for the makeup air to come in from outside.  It has to come from somewhere,  or you yould have negative pressure or no fire.  In the winter the relative humidity is usually very low.  Hence the dry air in the house and the need for teapot.  -Marc

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #73 on: July 28, 2011, 12:02:44 PM »
Warm air holds more water than cold air, No ?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: 41" low dome WFO build
« Reply #74 on: July 28, 2011, 05:14:13 PM »
Warm air holds more water than cold air, No ?

Correct. Evaporation increases with temperature, but it has nothing to do with the ability of the air to "hold" water. It is about energy. Air does not "hold" water. Air is a mechanical mixture of gasses - the molecules merely occupy the same space. It is not like the concept of saturation in liquids.

CL

 

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


 

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