Author Topic: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro  (Read 16740 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2010, 11:03:23 PM »
Bill,

This is part of the menu at Sullivan St. Bakery. 

http://www.sullivanstreetbakery.com/pizze

Thanks for saying you enjoyed the pictures, thread and all, even if I didn't get this right.  :) :-D

Norma
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Offline chickenparm

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2010, 11:33:20 PM »
Norma,
Believe me I understand how it goes...I have made a similar mistake in the past and I look back and cant help but laugh about it.

I ate a wonderful dish in NY called Chicken Pomodoro once.I did not know the name of it,my friends had it brought out and I devoured it.I asked what it was called and I thought the guy said it was Chicken Primavera.

Well,I went to another restaurant one time,and order Chicken Primavera to take home,thinking it was the same thing I was craving that I had before.It was NOT! This Chicken Primavera was loaded with so many veggies I could not eat it.I dont mind the veggies,but it was tooooo much! I went back complaining and the guy there,(super nice,not to make me feel like a total ass) explained to me what I ordered,and he realized I was trying to order Chicken Pomodoro instead.

It was a big insert foot into mouth moment for me,very embarassing moment for me!
 :-[

Just wanted to share the story.
 :-D



-Bill

Offline norma427

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2010, 12:08:23 AM »
Bill,

I enjoyed your story.  I even had to chuckle.  ;D  I think we all have those embarrassing moments. I had many in my life.   ;)  I wish I could speak other languages.  If I had to go into a fancy restaurant and order food I would be lost.   :-D  I am plain me. 

Norma
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2010, 05:20:51 AM »
Matt,

Thanks for saying the pizza was nice.  :)  I now have to chuckle too.  I sure am not good with Italian and almost always foul up.  I didn't know pizza pomodoro is Italian for pizza with tomato.   :-D  I thought all these were called pomodoro, but see how right you are.   ;D  I guess I named this thread wrong.  :-D  That is even funnier.

Norma

I also chuckle when I hear people say panini (plural for panino) & biscotti (plural for biscotto).  Literally translated panino is small bread & biscotto is twice baked. So...... just so you know......... when you say "I made a panini" or "I ate a biscotti"; you're actually saying "I made a buns" & "I ate a cookies". :) 
Your italian lesson for the day!

Matt

Offline norma427

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2010, 08:11:25 AM »
I also chuckle when I hear people say panini (plural for panino) & biscotti (plural for biscotto).  Literally translated panino is small bread & biscotto is twice baked. So...... just so you know......... when you say "I made a panini" or "I ate a biscotti"; you're actually saying "I made a buns" & "I ate a cookies". :) 
Your italian lesson for the day!

Matt

Matt,

You made me chuckle again.  :-D  I have also made those mistakes when talking about panini and biscotti.  I really do need Italian lessons. 

I wanted to ask you a question.  Did you ever eat this kind of pizza when you were in Italy?  If you did what is it supposed to look like and taste like as far as the bottom crunch and thickness factor?  When I tasted this pizza at Sullivan St. Bakery, this was the first time I ever tried a pizza like this.  Although mine wasn’t exactly like Sullivan St. Bakery, I would be interested if hearing more about this type of pizza. Do many people eat this type of pizza in Italy and is there a specific name for it even with different ingredients as toppings?  Do people in Italy mostly eat this type of pizza cold?  When I associate pizza in Italy I always think of wood-fired pizzas or Sicilian pizzas.

Thanks for the Italian lesson.  ;D

Norma
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2010, 08:54:06 AM »
Matt,

You made me chuckle again.  :-D  I have also made those mistakes when talking about panini and biscotti.  I really do need Italian lessons. 

I wanted to ask you a question.  Did you ever eat this kind of pizza when you were in Italy?  If you did what is it supposed to look like and taste like as far as the bottom crunch and thickness factor?  When I tasted this pizza at Sullivan St. Bakery, this was the first time I ever tried a pizza like this.  Although mine wasn’t exactly like Sullivan St. Bakery, I would be interested if hearing more about this type of pizza. Do many people eat this type of pizza in Italy and is there a specific name for it even with different ingredients as toppings?  Do people in Italy mostly eat this type of pizza cold?  When I associate pizza in Italy I always think of wood-fired pizzas or Sicilian pizzas.

Thanks for the Italian lesson.  ;D

Norma

This type of pizza is similar to what you would find in a bakery in Italy as oppose to a pizzeria.  The idea is to take regular bread dough & top it with the freshest ingredients available.  I think that the intent of Jim's recipe is so that the average person with little or no experience can make a somewhat decent replica of this pizza at home.  I totally understand the logic behind his method, but let's just say....it's not for me.  As I mentioned to you, I made it & thought that it was just okay.  For me the crust was flavorless & far to underdeveloped making it very difficult to digest.  I think that all the pizzas recipes in his book would make really really good pizzas atop a nicely fermented & well developed dough.

Matt

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2010, 09:17:55 AM »
Sorry to detract from the thread but Matt's comment about digestibility is really interesting to me.  I don't know anything about it but can appreciate a pizza that is digestible versus one that feels like it just sits in your gut.  Is there a direct correlation to degree (or length) of fermentation to digestibility?

Peter? Matt?

Thanks,
Chau

Offline norma427

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2010, 09:19:20 AM »
This type of pizza is similar to what you would find in a bakery in Italy as oppose to a pizzeria.  The idea is to take regular bread dough & top it with the freshest ingredients available.  I think that the intent of Jim's recipe is so that the average person with little or no experience can make a somewhat decent replica of this pizza at home.  I totally understand the logic behind his method, but let's just say....it's not for me.  As I mentioned to you, I made it & thought that it was just okay.  For me the crust was flavorless & far to underdeveloped making it very difficult to digest.  I think that all the pizzas recipes in his book would make really really good pizzas atop a nicely fermented & well developed dough.

Matt

Matt,

Thanks for your answers.  :)  When you made this type of pie, did yours look anything like mine?  I agree with you that Jim’s recipe was intended so an average person could have success at home with this type of pizza.  The pizza was easy.  I had made different other thin crust pizzas, and most of them had a bland taste in the crust.  The one I made yesterday, didn’t have that bland taste, but sure wasn’t like one made that is naturally leavened.  I think my dough was almost overfermented, when I went to roll the dough yesterday.  There were lot of little bubbles in the dough and they kept cracking when I was trying to roll the dough gently.  I then proceeded to pick up the dough and open it the rest of the way by hand.  The dough then felt like there were lots of little honeycombs in the dough.  I did manage to open it okay though. 

What would your ideas be to improve on this dough?  Would you suggest less yeast and a longer ferment?  Do you think my pizza was too thin?  What I ate at Sullivan St. Bakery the pizza was a little thicker and the crust did have a good taste.  I can understand Jim wouldn’t want to give his exact methods in making this type of pizza.  I also thought the hydration could be upped a little.  What are your thoughts on that?

I must have a gut of steel, because no matter what kind of pizza I eat, I never have problems digesting it.   :-D

Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Are you going to try this type of pie again and what changes would you think about making if you make another one.

Norma
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 09:23:41 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2010, 09:21:00 AM »
Sorry to detract from the thread but Matt's comment about digestibility is really interesting to me.  I don't know anything about it but can appreciate a pizza that is digestible versus one that feels like it just sits in your gut.  Is there a direct correlation to degree (or length) of fermentation to digestibility?

Peter? Matt?

Thanks,
Chau

Chau,

You know anyone can ask anything on my threads.  We are all here to learn.   :)

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2010, 10:13:53 AM »
Do you think my IDY is getting weak?  I had expected the dough to rise and be ready sooner, but I kept watching it and the dough didn't look like it was overfermenting.  I think in my next attempt I am going to lower the yeast so the dough can room ferment longer.  Maybe get some new yeast, too.  :-D

Norma,

The Lahey dough is an "emergency" dough but it might be gentler and kinder to refer to it as a "short-time" dough since no actual emergency is involved. However, an emergency or short-time dough usually involves using a lot more yeast than normal and water at an elevated temperature that will yield a finished dough temperature of around 90-95 degrees F. A typical amount of yeast for an emergency or short-time dough might be around 0.80-1% IDY. The Lahey yeast quantity is quite a bit more than that so one would expect an even faster rise. The downside of an emergency or short-time dough is that it won't hold out forever at normal room temperatures and will start to go downhill pretty fast and oftentimes become completely unusable (except possibly to use the dough to make garlic sticks and the like). You can read more about this subject from Tom Lehmann at the PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5037&p=29623&hilit=#p29594.

Based on your further description of how your dough fermented, it quite possible that it was overfermented. That might have explained why it took so long to bake the pizza to get the desired degree of bottom crust coloration and possibly the thinness of the crust that you got. It might also explain why the crust had flavor. After a good part of the day at room temperature, you could expect a lot of fermentation byproducts to contribute to crust flavor.

My advice, for what it is worth, is to repeat your experiment but try to get a dough that is usable after about two hours, or maybe three if you do not use water at an elevated temperature (which the recipe does not require). If the yeast you have been using cannot be used, then fresh yeast should solve that problem. To be faithful to the recipe, I would not change the thickness factor at this time. If you are able to successfully replicate the recipe next time, then, based on your results, you can make whatever changes you would like to make, whether it is the crust thickness or fermentation time or method.

I also notice that in the Lahey video he rolled out the second dough skin with a rolling pin and with ample bench flour. I don't know if that was simply an alternative method to forming the skin for placement into the sheet pan or if it was an important step to making the zucchini pizza. Did you use that method also?

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2010, 10:36:12 AM »
Sorry to detract from the thread but Matt's comment about digestibility is really interesting to me.  I don't know anything about it but can appreciate a pizza that is digestible versus one that feels like it just sits in your gut.  Is there a direct correlation to degree (or length) of fermentation to digestibility?

Peter? Matt?

Chau,

The member who has posted and commented most often on the digestibility matter is pizzanapoletana (Marco). Based on his posts on the subject linked below, it appears that the duration of fermentation is a major component of digestibility of a crust (from the standpoint of protein and starch/sugar) but also the nature of the leavening system (e.g., natural starter) and the strength of the flour.

Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2951.msg26062/topicseen.html#msg26062

Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1942.msg17216/topicseen.html#msg17216

Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1330.msg12136/topicseen.html#msg12136

Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,656.msg11520/topicseen.html#msg11520

Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2873.msg24774/topicseen.html#msg24774

Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,970.msg8715/topicseen.html#msg8715

See, also, the thread on this subject at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8986.msg77745.html#msg77745.

Of course, not everyone, and that apparently includes Norma, has a problem with digesting pizza crust.

Peter

Offline Matthew

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2010, 10:59:16 AM »
Matt,


What would your ideas be to improve on this dough?  Would you suggest less yeast and a longer ferment?  Do you think my pizza was too thin?  What I ate at Sullivan St. Bakery the pizza was a little thicker and the crust did have a good taste.  I can understand Jim wouldn’t want to give his exact methods in making this type of pizza.  I also thought the hydration could be upped a little.  What are your thoughts on that?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Are you going to try this type of pie again and what changes would you think about making if you make another one.

Norma

I would probably go with my standard focaccia formula & up the dough weight by about 100grams.  The pic below should give you a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.

Offline norma427

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2010, 11:38:49 AM »
Norma,

The Lahey dough is an "emergency" dough but it might be gentler and kinder to refer to it as a "short-time" dough since no actual emergency is involved. However, an emergency or short-time dough usually involves using a lot more yeast than normal and water at an elevated temperature that will yield a finished dough temperature of around 90-95 degrees F. A typical amount of yeast for an emergency or short-time dough might be around 0.80-1% IDY. The Lahey yeast quantity is quite a bit more than that so one would expect an even faster rise. The downside of an emergency or short-time dough is that it won't hold out forever at normal room temperatures and will start to go downhill pretty fast and oftentimes become completely unusable (except possibly to use the dough to make garlic sticks and the like). You can read more about this subject from Tom Lehmann at the PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5037&p=29623&hilit=#p29594.

Based on your further description of how your dough fermented, it quite possible that it was overfermented. That might have explained why it took so long to bake the pizza to get the desired degree of bottom crust coloration and possibly the thinness of the crust that you got. It might also explain why the crust had flavor. After a good part of the day at room temperature, you could expect a lot of fermentation byproducts to contribute to crust flavor.

My advice, for what it is worth, is to repeat your experiment but try to get a dough that is usable after about two hours, or maybe three if you do not use water at an elevated temperature (which the recipe does not require). If the yeast you have been using cannot be used, then fresh yeast should solve that problem. To be faithful to the recipe, I would not change the thickness factor at this time. If you are able to successfully replicate the recipe next time, then, based on your results, you can make whatever changes you would like to make, whether it is the crust thickness or fermentation time or method.

I also notice that in the Lahey video he rolled out the second dough skin with a rolling pin and with ample bench flour. I don't know if that was simply an alternative method to forming the skin for placement into the sheet pan or if it was an important step to making the zucchini pizza. Did you use that method also?

Peter

Peter,

I agree that is kinder to refer to the Lahey dough as a “short-time” dough.  I never have an emergency when making any kind of dough.  I had a finished dough temperature of less than what is called for in an emergency or “short-time” dough. 

I believe I probably either had or almost had an overfermened dough, from your explanations.  I was thinking while the pie was baking, how could this pie take that long to bake, when it was so thin.  Even the olive oil should have helped the bottom brown faster.  I could also see there wasn’t enough rise, if the dough was overfermented. 

I will take your advise and try the same dough at market.  I do have fresher yeast there, and I can easily weight out the ingredients there and mix the dough by hand.  I don’t know what to expect in my deck oven, but will put the dough in the same sheet pans I have at market and bake on a screen. That method seems to work at market.  I know baking in the deck oven will give another variable, but Jim Lahey seemed to be baking in a deck oven. 

I also wondered why Jim Lahey formed the skins in two ways.  One with gently opening it and the other with flour and rolling the dough.  I did use the method of flouring my table and rolling the dough, but I didn’t use a lot of flour.  I don’t know if this was a step to be just used for the zucchini pizza or not, but wanted to follow what Jim Lahey did.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2010, 12:06:43 PM »
I would probably go with my standard focaccia formula & up the dough weight by about 100grams.  The pic below should give you a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.

Matt,

Your standard focaccia looks great.  :)  Let me know how the the formula turns out if you up the dough weight.  I do really like focaccia.  Doesn't your focaccia, have a nice and airy crumb?

Norma
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2010, 01:18:12 PM »
Chau,

The member who has posted and commented most often on the digestibility matter is pizzanapoletana (Marco). Based on his posts on the subject linked below, it appears that the duration of fermentation is a major component of digestibility of a crust (from the standpoint of protein and starch/sugar) but also the nature of the leavening system (e.g., natural starter) and the strength of the flour.

Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2951.msg26062/topicseen.html#msg26062

Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1942.msg17216/topicseen.html#msg17216

Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1330.msg12136/topicseen.html#msg12136

Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,656.msg11520/topicseen.html#msg11520

Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2873.msg24774/topicseen.html#msg24774

Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,970.msg8715/topicseen.html#msg8715

See, also, the thread on this subject at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8986.msg77745.html#msg77745.

Of course, not everyone, and that apparently includes Norma, has a problem with digesting pizza crust.

Peter


Thank you for the links Peter.  Reading through his comments, it appears that Marco list 2 reasons for easy digestibility of pizza dough.  1) protein content and 2) long fermentation times.

1) Protein content makes a lot of sense to me. 
2) length of fermentation doesn't make sense to me.   First fermentation is highly dependant on the amount of yeast in the dough and temperature.  If there is a high amount of yeast and a high temperature, fermenation occurs faster.  A slower fermented dough would have either less yeast or be fermented at lower temps or both.  However, at the point of usage, both doughs would have gone through a comparable amount of fermentation whether fast or slow.    Secondly, I have notice over and over again, that when a dough is overfermented, whether fast or slow, the acids strength the gluten and I get a tougher heavier texture.   No doubt this would equate to a heavier feeling in the gut.    So what am I missing here? How does length of fermentation aid in getting a more digestible dough?  Is there something else going on during the long fermentation?   Are more of the proteins broken down from the acids?

Thanks,
Chau

Offline Matthew

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2010, 02:06:25 PM »
Matt,

Your standard focaccia looks great.  :)  Let me know how the the formula turns out if you up the dough weight.  I do really like focaccia.  Doesn't your focaccia, have a nice and airy crumb?

Norma

Thanks Norma.  I prefere focaccia genovese which is thinner & has a nice crunch.  Although I have made it several times I'm not a huge fan of really thick focaccia, which I refer to as focaccia bread.

Matt

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2010, 02:30:53 PM »
Chau,

I think that there are quantitative and related time aspects involved. For example, if I make an emergency dough with a lot of yeast and very warm water, by the time the dough is ready to be used (say, after a couple of hours), there will perhaps have been insufficient time for a lot of conversion of starch to sugars to take place (or for any added table sugar to be broken down into simple sugars). Also, the protease enzymes might not have had sufficient time to attack and degrade the protein gluten structure. Remember, also, that in Marco's case, I believe he was speaking in reference to using a small amount of natural starter (or an equivalent amount of commercial yeast), up to five percent of the weight of water, and he was also using 00 flour, which is a fairly weak flour, and not allowing his dough to overferment. Marco often spoke of the action of protease enzymes and being careful not to allow them to degrade the gluten structure to the point where the water was released from its bond, leading to a wet and slack dough indicative of excessive fermentation. In Marco's case, there may have been greater bacterial action also.

Since there are so many different dough formulations, I don't know how you would determine where the crossover point is between a dough that will produce a hard-to-digest crust and one that will produce and easy-to-digest crust. I think the crossover point would differ from one dough formulation to another.

Peter

Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2010, 02:45:42 PM »
With respect to digestibility, if it helps I've learned (the hard way) that under-kneading decreases digestibility, and to the extent that the dough is underkneaded.

JLP
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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2010, 05:13:11 PM »
Thank you for the links Peter.  Reading through his comments, it appears that Marco list 2 reasons for easy digestibility of pizza dough.  1) protein content and 2) long fermentation times.

1) Protein content makes a lot of sense to me. 
2) length of fermentation doesn't make sense to me.

One thing that helps me understand the connection between fermentation and digestibility is the self destructive nature of wheat (and grains in general).  As wheat reaches maturity, it begins to generate enzymes that will convert almost all of it's components to sugar as food for the budding germ.  Basically, Momma wheat sacrifices herself for baby germ. Farmers go to great lengths to harvest wheat before too much of these enzymes are produced (hence the importance of the 'falling value') so that the components don't degrade too quickly when a dough is formed. Some flour producers then take another self destructive grain, barley, carefully take that past maturity in order to generate an abundance of enzymes and then add that to wheat.  These plants basically generate the necessary enzyme cocktail to break themselves down, so the enzymes in protein deficient barley will spare the valuable gluten forming protein in wheat flour.

Every type of enzyme attacks one type of target.  They only break down the specific constituents that they're made to break down.  It's like puzzle pieces.  Water activity carries them around until they find the type of molecule that they 'fit' into and then they split it apart. There's a host of different enzymes slicing and dicing in pizza dough, but the biggest player, by far, is the starch degrading amylase. Malted barley flour supplements this amylase even further.  The amylase attacks the available starch in the dough and converts it to sugar. There's also, as Peter mentioned, protease.  There's not a lot of protease in flour, but there's enough that if you make a dough and let it sit for a very long time, the gluten will eventually be consumed.

One important concept to grasp is that fermentation involves two major processes- yeast activity and enzyme activity.  The yeast are generating some enzymes themselves, but, for the most part, yeast activity is about CO2 and alcohol, while enzyme activity is about entropy.  All the constituents in the wheat are on the slow train to becoming simple sugar (glucose). The entropy from enzyme activity represents a pre-digestion of the dough.  The further the enzymes break down the dough, the less work your stomach has to do to digest it.

Enzymes are favored by colder temps.  As you lower the temperature of dough with cold fermentation, the yeast become dormant, and, although the enzymes slow down as well, the enzyme train doesn't slow down quite as much.  A huge part of the 'additional' flavor/popularity of cold fermented dough is simply the extra sugar generated from the relatively faster acting enzymes (and other byproducts that add complexity, but, imo, I think the additional sugar-without physically adding sugar, is a big part of it's appeal).

Enzymes are favored by time.  As you dial back the yeast to produce dough that doubles in a longer amount of time, you're giving the enzymes more time to do their thing.

With unmalted/enzyme deficient Italian flour, time, as Marco points out, is critical.  You want enough enzyme activity to break down the flour so that it sits well in the stomach, but not so much that the gluten structure is compromised.  Kneading/gluten formation, hydration (water activity), dough temp, and the characteristics of the wheat from which the flour is milled are all going to impact the manner in which enzymes perform their tasks, but the bottom line is that an emergency dough with minimal fermentation (less than 6 hours) may contain a ton of added yeast/generate lots of CO2 and blow up quickly, but the enzymes will never have enough time to produce a crust with good digestibility.

The protease is, imo, the main player when it comes to digestibility, so even protease deficient, amylase rich, malted American flours still need plenty of time to reach peak digestibility.

A baker has a tremendous amount of control over yeast activity.  You can add more, add less, increase the temp, decrease the temp, and make sure the yeast train reaches it's destination exactly when you want it to.  The enzyme train, though, is not so easy to manipulate.  On the commmercial level, huge bakeries add pure enzymes to dough and manipulate enzyme activity with relative ease, but, for the home cook with a set amount of enzyme in their flour, you're pretty much stuck with extending the fermentation clock if you're looking for an ideal dough.

Now, just a quick aside, I have been researching some of the pure enzymes that commercial bakeries are using and I think there's ways for the home baker to utilize these ingredients and shorten the fermentation clock (imagine a 3 hour dough that has all the properties of a 3 day cold fermented dough), but I'm not there yet.

Summing up, fermentation is not just about yeast.  It's easy for the beginning baker to look at a dough that's doubled and assume it's ready.  It's also a common pitfall to look at a dough that's deflated and incorrectly assume it's overfermented.  Volume/CO2 production paints a portion of the fermentation picture, but not all.  If the yeast quantity was high or the dough was warm, it might have doubled in a short amount of time and will not have had the necessary enzyme activity to be properly fermented. The only way to really know your dough is to learn to recognize the signs of enzyme activity.  Clear plastic proofing containers will reveal the enzyme degradation if you learn how to recognize it.  There will be plenty of bubbles, but the slivers of dough that make up the bubbles will start to look wet and a little bit gooey. That's when the dough is properly fermented.  The finished crust tells the story as well. If you end up with a toothy/knobby crust, you took the dough too far.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Quest for Pizza Pomodoro
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2010, 06:13:02 PM »
scott123,

That is a great post !!

Peter


 

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