Quest for Pizza Pomodoro

[norma427]

I want to thank Matt for starting me on this adventure of trying to make Pizza Pomodoro!  He started me on this quest to try and find out how to make Jim Lahey’s Pizza Pomodoro.

I was thinking about trying to make Pizza Pomodoro and maybe how Jim Lahey would go about getting such a good flavor in the crust, as I had posted at Reply 144 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12388.msg119458.html#msg119458. I really don’t know what formula Jim Lahey at Sullivan St. Bakery uses for his Pizza Pomodoro, but it really didn’t seem to me that the Pizza Pomodoro would then have a good taste in the crust, with such a short fermentation time, as it is an emergency dough.  Since Jim Lahey is also a great bread maker and uses high hydrations in his breads, I decided to read more about high hydration breads and also the link here on the forum at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4114.0.html.
 
I then decided to go over to The Fresh Loaf to learn more about high hydration dough.  What I found interesting about high hydration dough was it seems like you can achieve a high hydration dough with different methods, other than no knead.  I found this link interesting that a paddle attachment is used in the embedded links on youtube http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18315/paddle-attachment-higher-hydration-doughs.  I also saw other methods of mixing doughs with really high hydrations at The Fresh Loaf.

I had experimented with some really high hydration doughs at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.0.html and had used a hand mixer to mix some of the doughs, before I had a kitchen aid mixer.  I can now understand how I had success with some of those doughs.

Also at The Fresh Loaf, there is a formula using weights for a Jim Lahey's Pizza Patate from "My Bread"  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15877/jim-lahey039s-pizza-patate-quotmy-breadquot

I would tend to think that Jim Lahey of Sullivan St. Bakery wouldn’t go about giving out his exact formula for his Pizza Pomodoro, because then anyone that wanted to, could be able to replicate the same pizza. 

This is the first formula I am going to try.  It this formula doesn’t seem like it gives the same taste in the crust, I am going to gradually up the hydration and decrease the yeast.  I would think since Jim Lahey does believe in letting the gluten develop over one days time with little yeast and high hydration for his bread, he would also do this for his pizzas.  I am not sure about a higher hydration for Pizza Pomodoro,  but maybe will find out over a period of experiments.

If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

Norma

[norma427]

I made the first attempt for the Jim Lahey’s Pizza Pomodoro with a Zucchini Pizza.  I first sifted the flour, added IDY, sugar, sea salt and then added the water to the dough.  I mixed the dough with a rubber spatula and then my fingers. It didn’t take long for this dough to come together.  The finished dough temperature was 78.1 degrees F.  The ambient temperature where the dough was proofing was 68 degrees F.  This dough was proofed for 5 1/2 hours.

For the dressings for the Zucchini Pizza Pomodoro I grated Le Gruyere cheese, grated zucchini squash (trimmed, not peeled), added a little bit of cayenne pepper to the zucchini, added the zucchini to the cheese after it was drained and then sprinkled seasoned bread crumbs over the top of the pie. I grated the zucchini by hand, with a hand grater, added some cayenne pepper and salt and let that mixture sit for about 25 minutes to take the water out of the zucchini, then drained in a colander and use my hand to squeeze out the water, then patted dry.  Tossed the zucchini and cheese together.

This is the video with Jim Lahey showing how to make Pizza Pomodoro. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be5OENbfclY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be5OENbfclY</a>

 

Jim Lahey is the owner of Sullivan St. Bakery http://www.sullivanstreetbakery.com/  and Pizzeria  http://www.co-pane.com/   At about 3:31 in the video it show Jim Lahey rolling out the dough for the Zucchini Pizza.  That is the way I made this pizza.

My sheet pan was oiled with Filippo Berio Olive Oil for Sauteing & Grilling.  This Pizza Pomodoro was baked at 500 degrees F.  It was baked for 25 minutes.

This is really an easy pizza to make and it can be made in one day.  For a party, this Pizza Pomodoro could be cut into little squares and eaten as hors d'œuvres, as Jim Lahey said in the video.  The bottom of this pizza does have a nice crunch.

There are also recipes for pizza pattate with Yukon potatoes, pizza funghi, with Cremini mushrooms, pizza with sweet potatoes, and regular pizza pomodoro with tomato sauce.  I think if will try the pizza pattate next with Klondike Goldust Potatoes.

Pictures below first of where I bought most of my ingredients, (at our local Country Store) for this pizza and then progression of dough and final pizza.

At least no special equipment is needed for this kind of pizza.

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

end of pictures

Norma

[hotsawce]

I was going to do this during the week.

How did it taste, most importantly?

I was going to do mine with tomato sauce, olive oil, sea salt, and fresh grated pecorino. Where did you put the rack in the oven?

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Can you speak as enthusiastically about your pizza as you did with the one you tried at Sullivan Street Bakery?

Peter

[hotsawce]

Also, 25 minutes at 500 seems a bit long and it doesn't look like the pie got too dark. I know someone did the pizza patate version at 20 minutes at 450 and it looked a little darker.

Any opinions or tips are greatly advised. I'm looking forward to trying it!

[chickenparm]

Norma,
That looks great! I bet it created a nice aroma in the kitchen too!
 

Hotsawce said something about the browning...I noticed in the recipe there is some sugar used...increasing it would create a more browning(maybe not needed) effect?

Would you describe this dough as being a bit like a emergency dough for the short rise time it has?

Just curious.
 

-Bill

[norma427]

I was going to do this during the week.

How did it taste, most importantly?

I was going to do mine with tomato sauce, olive oil, sea salt, and fresh grated pecorino. Where did you put the rack in the oven?

hotsawce,

The pizza did taste very good.  I don't know if it was the Zucchini, Swiss Le Gruyere cheese, seasoned bread crumbs and cayenne pepper or not that made this pizza taste so good.  I have never tried that combination before.  Your combinations sound good.  I put the baking pan on the second to bottom rack.  I was going to try a 17"x1" steel deep-dish pan, but decided on my regular heavy baking sheet for my first attempt.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

Can you speak as enthusiastically about your pizza as you did with the one you tried at Sullivan Street Bakery?

Peter

Peter,

Although I thought this pizza was very good, the pizza I ate at Sullivan St. Bakery was a little thicker, and had something in the dressing that had a different bite.  The cayenne pepper did give this pie a nice bite, but I wish I knew what Sullivan St. Bakery puts in their pie, to give it a bite. I noticed that when I rolled out the dough and after the pie was baked, that this pie wasn't as thick.  This pizza is a different kind of pizza for me to try. It kind of reminded me of a V&N pizza, being it was so thin and also had a crunch when I ate it, but the flavor of the toppings were much better.  I just ate another slice and there is still crunch when it is cold.  It still tastes good cold.  There is a different crunch to this pie than the V&N clone though.  This is more of a crispy crunch.  I wonder what thickness factor I should try next. I also wonder how the toppings would bake if I would make this pie a little thicker. I would think then the baking temperature would need to go down.  It seemed this pie baked just about right for the toppings and thinness of the crust.

The crust even had a decent taste.  I would have never thought it would.  It wasn't a complex taste like when a starter is used, but it still was good.

Norma

[norma427]

Also, 25 minutes at 500 seems a bit long and it doesn't look like the pie got too dark. I know someone did the pizza patate version at 20 minutes at 450 and it looked a little darker.

Any opinions or tips are greatly advised. I'm looking forward to trying it!

hotsawce,

I know all ovens bake differently and I just watched this pie, until I thought it was baked enough.  I am going to try this pie at market to see how it bakes in my deck oven.  That pie could be a lot different.  This is an easy pizza for someone to try.  It didn't take long to mix and then you just watch how the dough is fermenting.  After you would do it for awhile all this would become easier.  The yeast amount could be cut down to have a longer bulk ferment.  If you have any other questions, just ask.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,
That looks great! I bet it created a nice aroma in the kitchen too!
 

Hotsawce said something about the browning...I noticed in the recipe there is some sugar used...increasing it would create a more browning(maybe not needed) effect?

Would you describe this dough as being a bit like a emergency dough for the short rise time it has?

Just curious.
 

-Bill

Bill,

Thanks for saying the pie looks great.  It did give a nice aroma in the kitchen.

I don’t know about the sugar and browning.  I would think it all would depend on what kind of pan you use to bake this pie.  Jim Lahey said in the video not to oil the bottom of the pan too much.  I only lightly oiled it. 

I would think this is an emergency dough.  I started mixing this dough around 11:30 am and had the pizza early this evening.  I think the dough needs to be watched to see when it ferments enough.  My ambient temperatures in my kitchen are low right now. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I would think this is an emergency dough.  I started mixing this dough around 11:30 am and had the pizza early this evening.  I think the dough needs to be watched to see when it ferments enough.  My ambient temperatures in my kitchen are low right now. 

Norma,

With almost 1.9% IDY, you normally could expect the dough to double within two hours. That might have been extended a bit by a room temperature of 68 degrees F, but not to evening if you started at 11:30 AM today.

Peter

[Matthew]

Norma,
Nice job. I had to chuckle though because pizza pomodoro is Italian for pizza with tomato.  

[norma427]

Norma,

With almost 1.9% IDY, you normally could expect the dough to double within two hours. That might have been extended a bit by a room temperature of 68 degrees F, but not to evening if you started at 11:30 AM today.

Peter

Peter,

Do you think my IDY is getting weak?  I had expected the dough to rise and be ready sooner, but I kept watching it and the dough didn't look like it was overfermenting.  I think in my next attempt I am going to lower the yeast so the dough can room ferment longer.  Maybe get some new yeast, too. 

NOrma

[norma427]

Norma,
Nice job. I had to chuckle though because pizza pomodoro is Italian for pizza with tomato.  

Matt,

Thanks for saying the pizza was nice.    I now have to chuckle too.  I sure am not good with Italian and almost always foul up.  I didn't know pizza pomodoro is Italian for pizza with tomato.     I thought all these were called pomodoro, but see how right you are.     I guess I named this thread wrong.    That is even funnier.

Norma

[norma427]

Two more pictures since the Zucchini Pizza has been sitting for a few hours.

Norma

[norma427]

This is what this pizza is supposed to look like.  The fourth picture down. 
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12388.msg117785.html#msg117785

Norma

[chickenparm]

Norma,
Yep,Matt was right...

I was looking at those NYC pictures and seen the Pomodoro pizza in the picture...it IS is covered in red/tomato!The one next to it,looks a bit like yours,is the Pizza Cavolfiore,at least thats what the sign says.
Pizza Cavolfiore,It's usually made with Cauliflowers and Gryuere cheese.

Still,aside from the words,I enjoyed the threads,pics and all!