Author Topic: How I make my NP dough  (Read 47504 times)

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Offline jvp123

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #180 on: August 16, 2014, 12:42:36 PM »
No. Longer time does in my experience. I've gone as long as 60 hours (using appropriately less culture) at 64F, and it gets noticeably sour. I've never tasted any sour flavor in my dough fermented in the 70's. I find my dough has a lot less flavor period when fermented in the 70's.

The culture itself may be the biggest factor. Some produce much more sour flavor than others.

Higher levels of culture will ferment faster, AOTBE. Using high levels of culture with longer ferment time can also lead to complete gluten breakdown and a sloppy mess.

The only way I've been able to get any sour flavor faster (and it was much less detectable) is by fermenting up near 100F. Up that high, the bacteria does really well but the yeast does not. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14627.msg145628#msg145628

This article might help you. Read all the comments too: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10375/lactic-acid-fermentation-sourdough


Wow that Fresh Loaf article is amazing - lots to mine through there.  Thanks for the other information as well!
Jeff


Offline moose13

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #181 on: August 16, 2014, 12:43:33 PM »
yeah, i figured it worked that way but asked for IDY, ADY or cake.
As far as temp and time, 24hrs at whatever my kitchen is currently. 75ish
I really have no way to keep and monitor a constant temp.

Offline moose13

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #182 on: August 16, 2014, 12:56:52 PM »
The inside of my turned off oven is 74 degrees
probably my most consistent spot in the house.
Any suggestions for time at this temp?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #183 on: August 16, 2014, 01:05:41 PM »
The inside of my turned off oven is 74 degrees
probably my most consistent spot in the house.
Any suggestions for time at this temp?


24 hours sounds about right. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.0

8-12 hours before baking, start watching to see if you need to speed things up or slow them down. If you decide to do anything, make small corrections - 30 minutes in the fridge or 90F oven. Try not to do anything in the last hour or so, you don't want to be working with excessively cold or warm dough if you can help it.
Pizza is not bread.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #184 on: August 16, 2014, 05:13:38 PM »
moose13,

Because you are using so little Ischia, I think you should be OK. However, if you used the Ischia entry in the tool as a proxy for one of the three general forms of yeast, you weight numbers should be fine but not the volume numbers.

Peter

Offline jvp123

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #185 on: August 20, 2014, 10:30:25 AM »
When I've cold fermented, I've removed my dough a couple hours before bake time to get to room temp and relax.
When using the predicted perf. time table and doing a room temp fermentation does the dough go right to the bench for skinning at the end of the table time since its already at room temp or is there still a rest period.
It's usually over 80F in my kitchen in the summer.

Jeff

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #186 on: August 20, 2014, 10:41:32 AM »
When I've cold fermented, I've removed my dough a couple hours before bake time to get to room temp and relax.
When using the predicted perf. time table and doing a room temp fermentation does the dough go right to the bench for skinning at the end of the table time since its already at room temp or is there still a rest period.
It's usually over 80F in my kitchen in the summer.

Ideally, it would be ready to use - keep in mind that everyone's situation is unique and there are a lot of uncontrolled variables that differ from person to person, so you may need to tweak things to get the dough how you want it.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline jvp123

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #187 on: August 20, 2014, 10:45:23 AM »
Understood.  Thanks Craig!
Jeff

Offline rsaha

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #188 on: August 21, 2014, 10:58:04 PM »
I apologize in advance if this has been asked before but is there a reason you use coolers and ice instead of a wine cooler? I ask because I see small wine coolers that are relatively inexpensive and quite small that can be set to up to 65 degrees and I was thinking it might be a way for me to get out of cold fermenting. Also, I am still on ADY (researching a starter now). Do you believe the benefits of a 65 degree ferment are worthwhile for ADY based doughs? Does the LAB have a chance to develop from nothing fast enough when not using a starter? Again, sorry if this has been beaten to death. I feel like I'm drinking from a firehose for all the information around here...

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #189 on: August 21, 2014, 11:57:17 PM »
I apologize in advance if this has been asked before but is there a reason you use coolers and ice instead of a wine cooler? I ask because I see small wine coolers that are relatively inexpensive and quite small that can be set to up to 65 degrees and I was thinking it might be a way for me to get out of cold fermenting. Also, I am still on ADY (researching a starter now). Do you believe the benefits of a 65 degree ferment are worthwhile for ADY based doughs? Does the LAB have a chance to develop from nothing fast enough when not using a starter? Again, sorry if this has been beaten to death. I feel like I'm drinking from a firehose for all the information around here...

There is no benefit of the cooler/ice method over a wine cooler. If I had a spare wine cooler, I'd use it.

I think ADY or any other form of cake yeast develops flavor 3-4 times as fast at room temp (60-70F) as in the fridge. i.e. 1 day at RT = 3-4 days in the fridge. SD is a whole different story. SD in the fridge will never come close to SD at 64F +/- in any sensory attribute.
Pizza is not bread.


Offline moose13

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #190 on: August 22, 2014, 03:18:15 PM »
What effect will it have to after 24 hr bulk ferment, to ball and fridge?
I gotta be honest i have had much better luck with dough that has been in the fridge overnight.
I just made a batch, still in the stretch and fold stage.
Any problems bulk fermenting in a metal bowl? Read something about not storing your starter in metal.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 03:23:16 PM by moose13 »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #191 on: August 22, 2014, 03:53:33 PM »
What effect will it have to after 24 hr bulk ferment, to ball and fridge?
I gotta be honest i have had much better luck with dough that has been in the fridge overnight.
I just made a batch, still in the stretch and fold stage.
Any problems bulk fermenting in a metal bowl? Read something about not storing your starter in metal.

I don't know but I think the last 24 hours is the most critical. I've never tried a stainless bowl. I doubt it would be a problem for dough (starter may be a different issue), but I don't know for sure.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #192 on: August 22, 2014, 05:55:04 PM »

Any problems bulk fermenting in a metal bowl? Read something about not storing your starter in metal.

As of now, that's all I use for bulk fermenting.  Not because I think it does a better job, but because it's all I have for now. As for storing starter in metal, the only thing my family and I use is glass or glazed stoneware...but I haven't heard about anything negative about SS.
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Offline moose13

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #193 on: August 22, 2014, 06:26:23 PM »
I have read a couple times not to store starter in metal containers.
I am using glass for this. My mixing bowl is SS and always ferment in it since it's already dirty with residue. Should be fine

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #194 on: August 22, 2014, 06:29:40 PM »
Stainless is corrosion resistant. It's not inert. If you have an alternate container, I don't see any sense in storing culture in stainless.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline vandev

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #195 on: August 22, 2014, 09:19:58 PM »
Stainless is corrosion resistant. It's not inert. If you have an alternate container, I don't see any sense in storing culture in stainless.

 I think Craig has visited this road before.....Don't make it complicated...Keep it simple and stupid.. get one of these for $6.00 and just take out the rubber washer.. Works like a charm.  I just fired up the best pizza yet tonight using Craig's advice..  and i don't question him why..  Thanks buddy.. ;D

Chris

Offline dylandylan

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #196 on: August 24, 2014, 11:56:32 PM »
Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, what are the dimensions of the tubs you use for the single balls?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #197 on: August 25, 2014, 09:09:47 AM »
They are 5.5" diameter at the bottom, 7" diameter at the top, and about 4" high. I think they are the ideal size for typical NP-size pies.
Pizza is not bread.