Author Topic: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough  (Read 12033 times)

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Offline dellavecchia

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"Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« on: December 11, 2010, 01:23:42 PM »
I was intrigued by Di Fara's workflow of using a very short fermentation. So I decided this morning to have pizza for lunch, and see what I could come up with. Here is the formulation, using 50/50 Caputo and AP:

Flour (100%):    1024.39 g  |  36.13 oz | 2.26 lbs
Water (61%):    624.88 g  |  22.04 oz | 1.38 lbs (80 degrees F)
CY (.2%):       2.05 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs |
Salt (2.8%):    28.68 g | 1.01 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.98 tsp | 1.99 tbsp
Total (164%):   1680 g | 59.26 oz | 3.7 lbs | TF = N/A

Single Ball:   280 g | 9.88 oz | 0.62 lbs

I added the AP to give the dough some strength for the short window of fermentation. Mixing was extended by a few minutes and balled immediately. 4 hours at 80F. It rose nicely, and had obvious signs of fermentation on the top and bottom.

Observations: The dough did not have the complexity of flavor that an 18 hour starter has, but this was an incredibly enjoyable pizza. It was crispier than normal, had a bit more chew, and a slice could stand on it's own. The dough felt silky when being worked, and cooked in 60 seconds without any problems (albeit without much leoparding). Excellent flavor, very rewarding.

John


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2010, 01:41:06 PM »
John nice work.  Your pizzas are looking consistently better all the time.  There are pluses and minuses to making emergency pies.  I for one, am a huge fan.  I really like how you added the AP flour in and kept your HR pretty much the same.  It should have given you a crust that is a bit closer to NY-elite than a classic NP. 

John, have you already done this or considered making dough as Roberto does in the video posted recently?  If I had a WFO, I'd be all over it.  I still might be all over it. 


Chau

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2010, 01:55:34 PM »
Thanks Chau. I really enjoyed this crust. The use of AP was, of course, garnered from your posts,

I have done Roberto's workflow, but on a shorter window. Awhile back I was struggling with room temp CY, and the workflow/recipe I ended up with is nearly identical to Roberto's video. My bulk was shorter, but you could reduce to .05%.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11886.msg112775.html#msg112775

John

Offline norma427

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 02:08:59 PM »
John,

Your emergency Neapolitan dough pizza looks delicious.  ;D  You did a great job.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 02:11:16 PM »
Thank you Norma!

John

Offline thezaman

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 02:31:41 PM »
john, looks really good. when i cook a quick dough i get a lot more overall browning than you did. as if there is sugar in the dough i think it is because the yeast  hasn't used up enough of the sugars in the flour. i am going to try your method.
 to do a roberto long rise you would have to make a yeast water mixture and use part of that to get the yeast quantity needed for a small batch.


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2010, 02:37:31 PM »
Nice!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 02:46:24 PM »
John,

Based on your fine results, I used the powers vested in me as a Moderator to add your dough formulation to the collection of emergency dough formulations at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8297.msg71576.html#msg71576.

Peter

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 03:19:19 PM »
John,

Based on your fine results, I used the powers vested in me as a Moderator to add your dough formulation to the collection of emergency dough formulations at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8297.msg71576.html#msg71576.

Peter


What an honor! Thank you Peter. I just wanted pizza for lunch!

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 03:23:32 PM »
john, looks really good. when i cook a quick dough i get a lot more overall browning than you did. as if there is sugar in the dough i think it is because the yeast  hasn't used up enough of the sugars in the flour. i am going to try your method.
 to do a roberto long rise you would have to make a yeast water mixture and use part of that to get the yeast quantity needed for a small batch.



Thanks Larry - So the amount of yeast Roberto uses is really, really miniscule - ie. diluted in water. I wonder if, since the window of usability is between 30-40 hours at room temperature, the natural yeast in the flour is coming into play as well. Temperature must be key too.

John


Offline thezaman

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 05:17:26 PM »
  john, the percentage needed for a small batch would be probably under a gram so it would be necessary to dilute it.

cornicione54

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2010, 05:39:36 PM »
... the natural yeast in the flour is coming into play as well. Temperature must be key too.

John,
The "natural" yeast in the flour would not be sufficiently populous to have a noticeable effect even at 30 to 40 hours (especially considering the 2-3% salt). However certain bacteria could definitely have some effect during that time.
FWIW, I recently tried @ 58% hydration, 3% salt, 0.03% IDY at ~72F, 20 minute hand mix, 24 hour bulk ferment followed by a 5 hour proof. The dough was tough to work (perhaps because I was using a 00/durum mix not Caputo) but the flavor was somewhat better than a rapid rise IDY dough. Hard to describe but it wasn't really at all acidic or sour like some sourdough crusts can be. If anything there was a subtle sweetness, "malted" flavor.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 05:46:48 PM by cornicione54 »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2010, 08:04:07 PM »
Larry - thanks for the clarification.

cornicione54 - I agree that you get a nice, complex flavor from long room temp rise with small amounts of yeast (even starter), without sourness - almost rich. Sourness comes into play with a much larger percentage of a starter or levain/poolish.

In your .03% IDY, did you note how much rise there was during the balled proof? I am noticing that even though my long room temp doughs produce very little rise (using starter or CY), I still get great oven spring.

John

cornicione54

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2010, 08:34:59 PM »
In your .03% IDY, did you note how much rise there was during the balled proof? I am noticing that even though my long room temp doughs produce very little rise (using starter or CY), I still get great oven spring.
Same here. I didn't get much rise during the balled proof.
There was reasonable oven spring but not great. With hindsight, I think I worked the dough too much during the balling stage which may also explain the difficulty I had with opening the proofed dough balls. Next time I try a 24 hour IDY ferment I'll reduce the yeast even further and perhaps increase the hydration a fraction.
To return to your original post about Emergency dough, those pies look great! I do use an emergency dough more often than I'd like (usually along the lines of: Want Pizza!... want it NOW ;D) and will certainly bear your formula in mind next time I'm rushed for time.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2010, 09:24:52 PM »
John,
The "natural" yeast in the flour would not be sufficiently populous to have a noticeable effect even at 30 to 40 hours (especially considering the 2-3% salt). However certain bacteria could definitely have some effect during that time.
FWIW, I recently tried @ 58% hydration, 3% salt, 0.03% IDY at ~72F, 20 minute hand mix, 24 hour bulk ferment followed by a 5 hour proof. The dough was tough to work (perhaps because I was using a 00/durum mix not Caputo) but the flavor was somewhat better than a rapid rise IDY dough. Hard to describe but it wasn't really at all acidic or sour like some sourdough crusts can be. If anything there was a subtle sweetness, "malted" flavor.

Cornicione, I agree with you.  I'm glad that you guys are using this workflow with good results as this is the direction I want to take next.  I think I'll make up a batch up now for dinner tomorrow night.  That will put me around 22 hours.  I have only experimented with long room temp ferment times with the use of a starter but from what I have learned recently, I think a long room ferment with IDY is the way to go.   Thanks for your post. 

Chau

Offline ponzu

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2010, 12:46:06 AM »
Great looking pies.

Very New york appearing with the even browning.  The crumb shots are quite reminiscent of JT's MBE pies with a crisp appearing brown veneer over an open crumb.

It really pays to mix it up and push the limits of comfort rather than getting stuck in a rut.

Keep up the great pies!

AZ

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2010, 11:48:11 PM »
Great looking pies John.

What cheese are you using?

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline mmarston

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2010, 07:34:58 AM »
John,
Is this a 12" pie?
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2010, 10:22:55 AM »
@Craig - The cheese is Calabro fior di latte. It is readily available very fresh in whey at the deli bar at my local Stop and Shop. I have not found another brand that tops it yet. It is probably because it is a "local" company.

@mmarston - Yes, 11-12in pies.

John

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: "Emergency" Neapolitan Dough
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2010, 02:26:02 PM »
I really like the way it melts.

Pizza is not bread.


 

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