Author Topic: 72 hours cold fermentation  (Read 8206 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2010, 05:10:12 PM »
Is it over ferment?
the dough received a 1 hour room temp bulk rise with one fold and then a 72 hours cold rise.  the dough got a big bubble at day 2 (72 hours rise)

Scott,

Sometimes a bubble will form in a weak spot in the dough. If the rest of the dough is firm to the touch, and there isn't a large profusion of bubbles at the sides and bottom of the storage container indicating an advanced stage of fermentation, the bubble shouldn't be a problem, and you can pinch it shut.

You can see the same bubble phenomenon for one of my pizza doughs, at Reply 29 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg36081.html#msg36081. That was after about 15 days of cold fermentation, when I decided to use the dough to make a pizza. My recollection is that the dough might have held out a bit longer because the dough outside of the bubble was still firm to the touch.

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2010, 08:33:53 PM »
Scott,

I forgot to mention earlier that there appears to be an error in the percent of ADY in the poolish preferment.

Peter

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2010, 08:40:48 PM »
Scott,

I forgot to mention earlier that there appears to be an error in the percent of ADY in the poolish preferment.

Peter

What is it?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2010, 08:48:13 PM »
What is it?

Scott,

I'm sorry, there is no error. I forgot that it was a percent of the poolish flour.

BTW, where did the dough formulation come from?

peter

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2010, 01:36:19 AM »
Scott,

I'm sorry, there is no error. I forgot that it was a percent of the poolish flour.

BTW, where did the dough formulation come from?

peter

I made it with Excel.

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2010, 01:57:14 AM »
Peter,

Here is the pie made with 15% preferment (spong) and 65% hydration.

The crust is much softer but the oven spring is not imrpoved but I think it is because the temperture of the oven and stone wasn't high enough. It was about 300F-400F I guess.

-Scott
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 02:01:49 AM by jkuo010 »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2010, 07:09:12 AM »
Scott - Very impressive. I think you got amazing results and oven spring, considering the low temperature you cooked it at. You got the tenderness you were after - just get your stone hotter the next time and I think you will be even more pleased. Great job. This has been an interesting thread to follow.

John

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2010, 08:54:48 AM »
I agree, the pizza looks good from here.  To get better spring, allow the prebaked dough to proof up more and load it on a hotter stone.   

To get the stone temp up, preheat the oven and then place the stone closer to the heating element to get the temps above where you want to load the pizza.   Once you've hit that temp, move the stone back to the level in the oven that you want to bake at.  Now you have a preheated hot oven, with a superhot stone.  The temp of the stone will gradually decrease while you stretch the skin and top the pie.   When you are ready to load, the stone temp should still be higher.

I have also baked the pizza initially closer to the heating element at a high stone temp for a few minutes and then moved the entire stone with pizza further away to finish the bake.   Of course every oven is different but I just wanted to give you a few ideas you can try. 

And of course wear welding gloves and becareful when handling hot pizza stones.

Chau

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2010, 01:44:39 PM »
Scott,

I agree with the others. The pizza looks good. At some point, you might increase the percent of poolish/sponge and gradually increase the hydration. With a hotter stone, as John and Chau mentioned, I think you should get closer to the objective you have set for yourself.

Peter


Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2010, 01:55:46 PM »
Scott - Very impressive. I think you got amazing results and oven spring, considering the low temperature you cooked it at. You got the tenderness you were after - just get your stone hotter the next time and I think you will be even more pleased. Great job. This has been an interesting thread to follow.

John

I will be cooking another pie tonight with much higher temp for sure. Will post the result right after.

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2010, 02:00:43 PM »
Scott,

I agree with the others. The pizza looks good. At some point, you might increase the percent of poolish/sponge and gradually increase the hydration. With a hotter stone, as John and Chau mentioned, I think you should get closer to the objective you have set for yourself.

Peter

Thanks for the advice, peter.

Offline norma427

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2010, 05:38:04 PM »
Scott,

I also agree that your pie looks good.  :)  I was just curious why you decided to make a pie something like Pizza Mozza.  Did you try their pizza and then like it, or did you want to recreate a pizza like theirs?  Did you use one of the base recipes (like I posted the link to), on the web to help you get started in your search for a pizza like Pizza Mozza?

Best of luck when trying a higher oven temperature.  Looking forward to seeing your results.  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2010, 06:55:39 PM »
Scott,

I also agree that your pie looks good.  :)  I was just curious why you decided to make a pie something like Pizza Mozza.  Did you try their pizza and then like it, or did you want to recreate a pizza like theirs?  Did you use one of the base recipes (like I posted the link to), on the web to help you get started in your search for a pizza like Pizza Mozza?

Best of luck when trying a higher oven temperature.  Looking forward to seeing your results.  :)

Norma

Thanks Norma,

I like their pizza A LOT. that's why I am trying to recreate it.

I am making a pie with 40% preferment and 65% hydration tonight. definitely will use much higher temp (500+F) tho.

-Scott

Offline norma427

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2010, 07:26:54 PM »
Thanks Norma,

I like their pizza A LOT. that's why I am trying to recreate it.

I am making a pie with 40% preferment and 65% hydration tonight. definitely will use much higher temp (500+F) tho.

-Scott

Scott,

Thanks for letting me know you are trying to recreate Pizza Mozza pizza.  :)  Did you have a link for the recipe you first tried, in case I ever want to try and recreate a Pizza Mozza to try?  I am trying to recreate a pizza from Jim Lahey's Sullivan St. Bakery now, with varying results.

Looking forward in seeing your results tonight.  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2010, 01:31:15 AM »
Peter,

here is another pie with 40% preferment and 65% hydration. I did preheat my oven at 550F for 1 hour but the crust is still tough and dense.  :'(

Is it because the yeast has exhaust all it's power after 72 hours? or it's over-ferment?

please help~

-Scott
 

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2010, 01:34:33 AM »
Here is an example of the crust i am trying to achieve. Very light, airy and puffy.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:40:05 AM by jkuo010 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2010, 08:24:41 AM »
Scott,

Your latest pizza looks very good to me. Did you have any problems opening up the dough ball and forming the skin? And how long did you bake the pizza?

I don't think it is a yeast exhaustion issue. The rise in the rim of the pizza (oven spring) is more of a function of the moisture in the dough being converted to steam, which causes the dough to expand during baking. There are other factors involved but steam is the dominant one.

Also, do you know what a typical dough ball at Mozza's weighs and the size pizza that dough ball makes? For comparison purposes, what was the size of your latest pizza?

Peter
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 08:30:02 AM by Pete-zza »


Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2010, 01:22:10 PM »
Scott,

Your latest pizza looks very good to me. Did you have any problems opening up the dough ball and forming the skin? And how long did you bake the pizza?

I don't think it is a yeast exhaustion issue. The rise in the rim of the pizza (oven spring) is more of a function of the moisture in the dough being converted to steam, which causes the dough to expand during baking. There are other factors involved but steam is the dominant one.

Also, do you know what a typical dough ball at Mozza's weighs and the size pizza that dough ball makes? For comparison purposes, what was the size of your latest pizza?

Peter

Peter,

I have no rpoblem open up the ball and forming the skin. I think it baked for 6-7 Min.
the dough ball should weight around 7oz each. but I think I accidentlly forming the skin too big and it was 12-13 inch.

Does high hydration + high temp WFO = light puffy crust?
I remember Mozz did use a very high hydration between 80%-85%

by the way, the latest picture you see was the puffiest part of the crust, some other area are flat or no spring at all.

-Scott
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:26:17 PM by jkuo010 »

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2010, 01:34:18 PM »
Peter,

Here is a picture of my previous experiment, it was no preferment and with about 65%-70% of hydration and a 24 hours cold rise.

looking at my previous pies, I think my lastest pie was too big (the skin), Do you think if I create a large edge when forming a skin, will it help?

-Scott
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:35:57 PM by jkuo010 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2010, 01:42:53 PM »
Scott,

What is a typical size of a Mozza pizza and do you know how much dough is used to make that pizza? Also, how do you know that Mozza uses a hydration between 80-85% hydration?

Peter

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2010, 02:00:11 PM »
Scott,

What is a typical size of a Mozza pizza and do you know how much dough is used to make that pizza? Also, how do you know that Mozza uses a hydration between 80-85% hydration?

Peter

about 10-11 inch

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2010, 02:05:51 PM »
about 10-11 inch

Scott,

Do they use a roughly 7-ounce dough ball also?

Peter

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2010, 02:16:42 PM »
Scott,

Do they use a roughly 7-ounce dough ball also?

Peter

yes

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2010, 02:19:12 PM »
Scott,

How do you know that Mozza is using 80-85% hydration?

Peter

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2010, 02:37:44 PM »
Scott,

How do you know that Mozza is using 80-85% hydration?

Peter

according the the recipe Norma mention earlier, the percentage is 85% isn't it?


 

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