Author Topic: 72 hours cold fermentation  (Read 5997 times)

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Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2010, 02:00:43 PM »
Scott,

I agree with the others. The pizza looks good. At some point, you might increase the percent of poolish/sponge and gradually increase the hydration. With a hotter stone, as John and Chau mentioned, I think you should get closer to the objective you have set for yourself.

Peter

Thanks for the advice, peter.


Offline norma427

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2010, 05:38:04 PM »
Scott,

I also agree that your pie looks good.  :)  I was just curious why you decided to make a pie something like Pizza Mozza.  Did you try their pizza and then like it, or did you want to recreate a pizza like theirs?  Did you use one of the base recipes (like I posted the link to), on the web to help you get started in your search for a pizza like Pizza Mozza?

Best of luck when trying a higher oven temperature.  Looking forward to seeing your results.  :)

Norma
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Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2010, 06:55:39 PM »
Scott,

I also agree that your pie looks good.  :)  I was just curious why you decided to make a pie something like Pizza Mozza.  Did you try their pizza and then like it, or did you want to recreate a pizza like theirs?  Did you use one of the base recipes (like I posted the link to), on the web to help you get started in your search for a pizza like Pizza Mozza?

Best of luck when trying a higher oven temperature.  Looking forward to seeing your results.  :)

Norma

Thanks Norma,

I like their pizza A LOT. that's why I am trying to recreate it.

I am making a pie with 40% preferment and 65% hydration tonight. definitely will use much higher temp (500+F) tho.

-Scott

Offline norma427

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2010, 07:26:54 PM »
Thanks Norma,

I like their pizza A LOT. that's why I am trying to recreate it.

I am making a pie with 40% preferment and 65% hydration tonight. definitely will use much higher temp (500+F) tho.

-Scott

Scott,

Thanks for letting me know you are trying to recreate Pizza Mozza pizza.  :)  Did you have a link for the recipe you first tried, in case I ever want to try and recreate a Pizza Mozza to try?  I am trying to recreate a pizza from Jim Lahey's Sullivan St. Bakery now, with varying results.

Looking forward in seeing your results tonight.  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2010, 01:31:15 AM »
Peter,

here is another pie with 40% preferment and 65% hydration. I did preheat my oven at 550F for 1 hour but the crust is still tough and dense.  :'(

Is it because the yeast has exhaust all it's power after 72 hours? or it's over-ferment?

please help~

-Scott
 

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2010, 01:34:33 AM »
Here is an example of the crust i am trying to achieve. Very light, airy and puffy.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:40:05 AM by jkuo010 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2010, 08:24:41 AM »
Scott,

Your latest pizza looks very good to me. Did you have any problems opening up the dough ball and forming the skin? And how long did you bake the pizza?

I don't think it is a yeast exhaustion issue. The rise in the rim of the pizza (oven spring) is more of a function of the moisture in the dough being converted to steam, which causes the dough to expand during baking. There are other factors involved but steam is the dominant one.

Also, do you know what a typical dough ball at Mozza's weighs and the size pizza that dough ball makes? For comparison purposes, what was the size of your latest pizza?

Peter
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 08:30:02 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2010, 01:22:10 PM »
Scott,

Your latest pizza looks very good to me. Did you have any problems opening up the dough ball and forming the skin? And how long did you bake the pizza?

I don't think it is a yeast exhaustion issue. The rise in the rim of the pizza (oven spring) is more of a function of the moisture in the dough being converted to steam, which causes the dough to expand during baking. There are other factors involved but steam is the dominant one.

Also, do you know what a typical dough ball at Mozza's weighs and the size pizza that dough ball makes? For comparison purposes, what was the size of your latest pizza?

Peter

Peter,

I have no rpoblem open up the ball and forming the skin. I think it baked for 6-7 Min.
the dough ball should weight around 7oz each. but I think I accidentlly forming the skin too big and it was 12-13 inch.

Does high hydration + high temp WFO = light puffy crust?
I remember Mozz did use a very high hydration between 80%-85%

by the way, the latest picture you see was the puffiest part of the crust, some other area are flat or no spring at all.

-Scott
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:26:17 PM by jkuo010 »

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2010, 01:34:18 PM »
Peter,

Here is a picture of my previous experiment, it was no preferment and with about 65%-70% of hydration and a 24 hours cold rise.

looking at my previous pies, I think my lastest pie was too big (the skin), Do you think if I create a large edge when forming a skin, will it help?

-Scott
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:35:57 PM by jkuo010 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2010, 01:42:53 PM »
Scott,

What is a typical size of a Mozza pizza and do you know how much dough is used to make that pizza? Also, how do you know that Mozza uses a hydration between 80-85% hydration?

Peter


Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2010, 02:00:11 PM »
Scott,

What is a typical size of a Mozza pizza and do you know how much dough is used to make that pizza? Also, how do you know that Mozza uses a hydration between 80-85% hydration?

Peter

about 10-11 inch

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2010, 02:05:51 PM »
about 10-11 inch

Scott,

Do they use a roughly 7-ounce dough ball also?

Peter

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2010, 02:16:42 PM »
Scott,

Do they use a roughly 7-ounce dough ball also?

Peter

yes

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2010, 02:19:12 PM »
Scott,

How do you know that Mozza is using 80-85% hydration?

Peter

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2010, 02:37:44 PM »
Scott,

How do you know that Mozza is using 80-85% hydration?

Peter

according the the recipe Norma mention earlier, the percentage is 85% isn't it?

foolishpoolish

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2010, 02:40:45 PM »
@Peter
There's a good account of the Pizzeria Mozza "Scuola" course here: http://milque-toast.blogspot.com/2010/06/scuola-di-pizza-part-i-dough.html which mentions 72 hour ferment, 85% hydration, and a suggested formula.

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #76 on: December 23, 2010, 03:05:29 PM »
@Peter
There's a good account of the Pizzeria Mozza "Scuola" course here: http://milque-toast.blogspot.com/2010/06/scuola-di-pizza-part-i-dough.html which mentions 72 hour ferment, 85% hydration, and a suggested formula.


Do you think they really ferment sponge for couple of day?

foolishpoolish

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #77 on: December 23, 2010, 03:15:00 PM »
Do you think they really ferment sponge for couple of day?


I honestly wouldn't know. Perhaps the original author (of that blog) would be the one to ask? Seems like he was planning to write a second part but it doesn't seem to have materialised so...?
I would say a 48 hour sponge/poolish sounds unusual... Much more than that, I can't really say.

Addendum:
Here is an example from someone on these forums who employed a 2 day poolish:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11531.0
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 03:19:29 PM by foolishpoolish »

Offline jkuo010

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #78 on: December 24, 2010, 04:07:32 AM »
OK, Guys,

Here is another pie with 40% preferment and 65% hydration.

the crust is soft but it was very very chewy and the crust can barely open up just a little. Is it because the gluten is too strong after 72 hours that's why it's so chewy and makes it hard to open up the crumb?

-Scott
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 04:10:22 AM by jkuo010 »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: 72 hours cold fermentation
« Reply #79 on: December 24, 2010, 06:38:32 AM »
I went back to try and find out what white flour you are using. You are not using Caputo 00, correct?

John