Author Topic: My new oven  (Read 8768 times)

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Offline sacwoodpusher

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My new oven
« on: December 13, 2010, 04:08:59 PM »
I bought a new wood fired pizza oven from my neighbor a few weeks ago. It was his "test oven". He has since modified the oven making a few cosmetic changes, for instance, the firebricks on either side of the door were replaced with red bricks matching the dome of the oven. He makes 10 of these a month, in red brick and black brick.

I even gave him a picture of my 3rd or 4th pizza to put on his website! (I built too big of a fire the first time I tried to bake pizzas and within 30 seconds they were incinerated. My neighbor came over and gave me a lesson, and now I build a small fire. 2 3" diameter logs, about a foot long are placed on top of the propane burner, and that is all the wood it takes to make enough pizza for my wife and kids. I have since learned that I can bake a batch of bread in the oven after the pizza is done, just let the walls of the oven drop below 450 degrees.)


Offline Jet_deck

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »
What are the safety features that this propane fired / wood burning oven employ?  Propane and wood fire in an enclosed area can be a disaster.  How do they keep that from happening?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2010, 05:34:50 PM »
Good question,

The oven will not close completely. The steel door is lower than the door opening by a good 2 inches. The guy making them said he would not sell a full door because of the propane option.

The propane is supposed to be used to light the oven, and after the wood is lit, it is supposed to be turned off. Unless I am burning propane without wood, I turn the propane burner off after the fire is lit as the oven gets too hot.


buceriasdon

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2010, 07:18:03 PM »
The net have several versions of wood fired style ovens with gas burners as an option. Wood fired, wood fired with auxiliary gas and gas fired alone. I admit I'm confused, so here the gas burner "option" is there just to start the wood fire but not to be used alone? Seems to be an odd "option" to me as it runs the whole length of one side it appears and very close to the wall.
Don




Good question,

The oven will not close completely. The steel door is lower than the door opening by a good 2 inches. The guy making them said he would not sell a full door because of the propane option.

The propane is supposed to be used to light the oven, and after the wood is lit, it is supposed to be turned off. Unless I am burning propane without wood, I turn the propane burner off after the fire is lit as the oven gets too hot.



Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 12:43:25 AM »
Go to one of the BBQ forums. This type of burner is quite common there.

As I said, I use the oven two ways, I light the wood with the propane burner, but can usually turn it off later. Alternatively, I have cooked things, pizza, steaks, chicken, and potatoes (red, cut in half, olive oil, salt, and pepper) with just the propane burner.

I am still learning how to cook with this oven, but what I do like in general, is cooking at a much higher temperature than I can indoors....the chicken is moister, and I can brown things better.

My favorite trick, throw chicken backs, neck, giblets into a steel frying pan with garlic, onions and carrots.....brown severly, and then toss in stockpot inside the house. I have never had stock so good.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 01:45:36 AM »
My personal opinion is that this user, is a user.  I  think that he is the builder, whoreing his cheap wares out to the forum.  I am willing to risk punishment from the powers that be if I am wrong.

http://norcalovenworks.blogspot.com/

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13337

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12557.0.html

 


Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline shuboyje

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2010, 06:53:54 AM »
Outside of numerous other potential issues with the ovens design the biggest issue is that burner is not safe.  If it was posted on an oven building site like fornobravo the reactions would be very harsh.
-Jeff

buceriasdon

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2010, 08:03:47 AM »
Just a question, How is the burner not safe? Am I missing something?
Don
http://www.fornobravo.com/commercial_pizza_oven/gas_fired.html


Outside of numerous other potential issues with the ovens design the biggest issue is that burner is not safe.  If it was posted on an oven building site like fornobravo the reactions would be very harsh.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2010, 09:42:02 AM »
Brick oven burners need safety feature to insure the gas is burning.  Unburned gas can potentially accumulate in the top of the dome in quantities large enough to cause an explosion.
-Jeff


buceriasdon

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2010, 03:29:29 PM »
I guess I was being too abstruse, wouldn't building a wood fire on top of a gas burner be considered unsafe with ash and the like filling the holes on the burner? Supposedly the gas burner is an option to help start the wood fire which quite frankly I don't believe for a second. But that's just me.
Don 


Brick oven burners need safety feature to insure the gas is burning.  Unburned gas can potentially accumulate in the top of the dome in quantities large enough to cause an explosion.

Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 09:40:49 PM »
I guess the first question is where would the gas accumulate? The oven interior is 13 inches high, and the ceiling is flat. The door opening is 8.5 inches high......and a little over 16 inches wide. There is a higher percentage of opening for gas to escape than most gas grills have.

The propane burner is a 3/4 inch pipe, schedule 40, and is sliced halfway through at 1 inch increments. The burner is removeable in about 3 minutes, but in a pizza oven, the ash left after a firing is minimal.

Why, after a fire is lit, would you want to continue to burn propane? I don't spend anything I don't have to. I think a tank of propane is about $15-$18 now. Wood burning costs me not much elbow grease and contributes to clean fencerows.


Offline Jet_deck

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2010, 01:07:51 AM »
Why, after a fire is lit, would you want to continue to burn propane?

Thats not the point. The point is that the oven builder should have the appropriate safety precautions in place so that 'joe public' CAN'T continue to mix the two fire sources.  Probably the same reason that the builder re-worded their ebay listing to discriminate the seperation of the two heat sources.

Another issue: "the oven will not close completely"  that is a wonderful safety device!  How many natural gas home ovens rely on this safety feature ?

"Go to one of the bbq forums.  This burner is quite common there"  Yes, it is a log lighter.  Not to be confused with a heat source.  In fact, the bbq forum that (the builder) put pictures of the same oven as yours (with their hunting dog) doesn't make much of an issue with a possible dual heat source.  However, another bbq forum has made a "sticky" of the correct way to build a log lighter with the appropriate safety measures to make sure that accidents don't happen.

Is their any way you can get your money back from "your friend"  the builder, so he can fix these general safety issues?  Also, let the builder know that he changed his blog, to remove his email address which matches the one you list as yours, here on the forum.

Lastly, do not google the builders email address.  It has a huge spreadsheet with names, email addresses and phone numbers.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline angman

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2010, 07:59:30 PM »
 :-[
Goodbye Gary.

buceriasdon

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2010, 08:45:08 AM »
Let's see, so the combination wood and gas fired ovens have a valve that shuts off the supply of gas if the flame goes out? Correct?
Don

Offline shuboyje

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2010, 12:13:22 PM »
I'd imagine it is similar to a gas fired furnace which uses a thermocouple to ensure there is flame.  Even with that though you still have the issues in a brick oven is the gas valve leaks at all, so I assume commercial models have safeties for that too.  In you furnace the flue is at the highest point or it has an inducer fan so the gas would simply vent out if the valve leaked.  In a brick oven if the valve leaked the gas would accumulate in the top of the dome since the flue should be 63%(give or take a bit)  of the dome height.  Imagine the valve has developed a leak and the oven dome is full of gas when you go to light it?  BOOM!!!  And that boom happens with your arm or arms in the oven lighting the burner from the looks of it. 
-Jeff

buceriasdon

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2010, 09:26:12 AM »
So the lack of a chimney in this design creates a potential problem then?
Don


I'd imagine it is similar to a gas fired furnace which uses a thermocouple to ensure there is flame.  Even with that though you still have the issues in a brick oven is the gas valve leaks at all, so I assume commercial models have safeties for that too.  In you furnace the flue is at the highest point or it has an inducer fan so the gas would simply vent out if the valve leaked.  In a brick oven if the valve leaked the gas would accumulate in the top of the dome since the flue should be 63%(give or take a bit)  of the dome height.  Imagine the valve has developed a leak and the oven dome is full of gas when you go to light it?  BOOM!!!  And that boom happens with your arm or arms in the oven lighting the burner from the looks of it. 

Offline cranky

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2010, 10:56:31 PM »
Is propane heavier than air?


Offline shuboyje

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2010, 11:41:46 PM »
Yes, propane is heavier then air and natural gas is lighter then air.  That has crossed my mind many times but I don't want to be the one to make a blanket claim that propane is therefore safe.
-Jeff

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2010, 07:32:35 AM »


Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline shuboyje

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2010, 10:19:16 AM »
Looks to have the same issue as most alternative type ovens...no top heat.  Looks like a bigger fire with open flame could help fix that but it seems like the person who built and is using the oven would know that and demo it properly.
-Jeff

buceriasdon

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2010, 02:18:11 PM »
Not meaning to hijack the tread, but seems we have in any case. So this is where a curved roof, whether a barrel type or domed has an advantage over a flat roof? They both have the ability to reflect heat better than a flat roof? So for the same amount of wood consumed they would be more efficient.
Happy New Year, Feliz Ano Neuvo
Don


Looks to have the same issue as most alternative type ovens...no top heat.  Looks like a bigger fire with open flame could help fix that but it seems like the person who built and is using the oven would know that and demo it properly.

Offline cranky

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2010, 03:46:13 PM »
Not meaning to hijack the tread, but seems we have in any case. So this is where a curved roof, whether a barrel type or domed has an advantage over a flat roof? They both have the ability to reflect heat better than a flat roof? So for the same amount of wood consumed they would be more efficient.
Happy New Year, Feliz Ano Neuvo
Don

Anyone interested in energy efficiency would not have a wood fired oven.  There are two factors to think about that impact efficiency.   Combustion efficiency is one.  The other is how much of the heat generated goes into the food being cooked, the pot, or in this case the pizza.  Traditional wood fired ovens are not that combustion efficient.  One way to look at combustion efficiency is to look at smoke.  The more unburned carbon that goes into the air the less efficient the combustion.  A WFO combusts wood inefficiently and the cooking takes place when most of the heat is coming from coals.  The vast majority of the heat generated does not go into the food, but into the heat sink, the brick.  It takes hours to preheat the oven.  Pretty much all of that heat is wasted.   The pie is baked in two minutes.  If anyone is interested in looking at a wood fired combustion device that is efficient, do a search on "rocket stove".  Dr. Larry Winiarski is the creator of the technology.

buceriasdon

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2010, 06:37:04 PM »
Ha Ha, Cranky, way cool! Thanks for the info, I did a google search, very interesting. Even some plans out there on the net that could be converted to a pizza oven. If only the inventor had an Italian name........just kidding. Fascinating read. Thanks.
Don
http://www.rocketstove.org/images/stories/rocket%20baking%20oven%20manual%20november%202008.pdf
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 06:43:26 PM by buceriasdon »

Offline cranky

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2010, 07:22:28 PM »
Ha Ha, Cranky, way cool! Thanks for the info, I did a google search, very interesting. Even some plans out there on the net that could be converted to a pizza oven. If only the inventor had an Italian name........just kidding. Fascinating read. Thanks.
Don
http://www.rocketstove.org/images/stories/rocket%20baking%20oven%20manual%20november%202008.pdf

Don,

Larry Winiarski has built rocket stove heated ovens.  I did not see one, but by the description it sounded very interesting.  He relies on insulation to hold heat in the oven chamber, rather than brick (heat sink), to build up heat.  If you have to heat up a lot of dense mass, that is where your heat is going.  The idea is to drive all the heat from combustion into the oven chamber and cook something rather than heat up a ton of thermal mass.  The reason it takes so long to preheat a wfo is you are charging the thermal mass.  Buring a fire for hours to cook a couple of pizzas or some bread is a waste of fuel.  He also built a very large commercial coffee roaster in Central America using the same combustion principles.   He makes his own fire brick.  Very smart guy.  His mission is not to make great pizza.  He wants to help people in developing countries better their lives.

buceriasdon

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Re: My new oven
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2010, 07:40:24 PM »
Yes, The work in Uganda I found particularly interesting. However, getting back to the topic, :-D wouldn't a dome roof be more effecient than a flat roof? Larry is not interested in making pizza! :o He's not interested in spreading the gospel of pizza worldwide?
Once again..just kidding
Don


Don,

Larry Winiarski has built rocket stove heated ovens.  I did not see one, but by the description it sounded very interesting.  He relies on insulation to hold heat in the oven chamber, rather than brick (heat sink), to build up heat.  If you have to heat up a lot of dense mass, that is where your heat is going.  The idea is to drive all the heat from combustion into the oven chamber and cook something rather than heat up a ton of thermal mass.  The reason it takes so long to preheat a wfo is you are charging the thermal mass.  Buring a fire for hours to cook a couple of pizzas or some bread is a waste of fuel.  He also built a very large commercial coffee roaster in Central America using the same combustion principles.   He makes his own fire brick.  Very smart guy.  His mission is not to make great pizza.  He wants to help people in developing countries better their lives.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 07:46:44 PM by buceriasdon »


 

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