Author Topic: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria  (Read 4166 times)

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Offline still

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need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« on: December 14, 2010, 02:14:26 PM »
hi all, i am new to this place. I looked everywhere for a nice pizza dough recipe and i see almost similar stuffs. i am already using those salt,sugar, yeast, veg oil, water and flour. So far i've been using pillsbury HG flour. they are cheap to say the least. May be thats whats making my dough not so good. so anyways, here is my problem. we make dough on the machine, cut 'em to their weight and put them in the crates with 6 on each and put them in the walk in right after. but everytime we try to use them they are already dried out on the corners, they don't stretch, and they dont' even taste as good as a result, i am getting frustrated making pizzas. could some one please tell me the process of which doughs are made and stored? Also, i'd greatly appreciate if you could tell me how much of salt, sugar, yeast, oil and water to use for flour thats about 26 lbs. i need a Humongous favor. Thanks a lot.

AD


Offline Essen1

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 03:00:26 PM »
AD,

First off, welcome aboard.

Second, it would be helpful if you'd tell us what kind of pizza you're trying to make and what dough recipe you are currently using.
Mike

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2010, 03:51:32 PM »
still,

I agree with Essen1 (Mike) that it will help to know what kind of pizza you are trying to make and what your recipe is.

As you consider those questions, you might take a look at the procedures outlined in Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7953.msg68396/topicseen.html#msg68396. Whether those procedures will apply to your case will depend on what kind of pizza you are trying to make.

Peter

Offline still

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 06:04:15 PM »
trying to make a regular hand toss pizza..
i am using 26lbs flour, 12.2lbs water, 2oz salt, 2oz instant dry yeast, 4oz sugar, 4oz oil.... i have a feeling somewhere i am not using the ingredient right because the end product is not as elastic as i want it to be... can you check it

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 06:48:16 PM »
trying to make a regular hand toss pizza..
i am using 26lbs flour, 12.2lbs water, 2oz salt, 2oz instant dry yeast, 4oz sugar, 4oz oil.... i have a feeling somewhere i am not using the ingredient right because the end product is not as elastic as i want it to be... can you check it

still,

I think I see the problem, but before I respond can you tell me if the oil is measured out by weight or by volume? Also, how would you characterize the style you are looking for? Is it just a regular style like a NY style or is it a cracker-like style--or possibly something else?

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 07:08:42 PM »
It looks like your hydration is a bit on the low side at 45-46%. I would increase it to at least 58%.

Peter, I'm sure, will help you get your dough where you want it to be.  ;D
Mike

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Offline still

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2010, 07:16:34 PM »
Peter,

First of all thank you for your help, i really appreciate it. Well, the oil is measure by volume, i fill it up in a tiny 4oz cup. I am also dumping all the ingredient in a mixing bowl at once and let it mix for approx 40 minutes. The crust i am looking for is almost like Papa John's style..

Offline still

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2010, 07:18:03 PM »
what you mean Mike? more water??

Offline Essen1

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2010, 07:29:59 PM »
what you mean Mike? more water??

That's what I meant.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you. A 58% hydration would equal 15.08lbs of water.

Oh boy...Papa John's. You're in for a real treat from Peter, trust me   ;D
Mike

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http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline still

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2010, 07:36:50 PM »
thanx mike, well not exactly like papa John's but some what...i was looking for more of a bread taste with less greasy and hard crunchy feel to it, kinda like almost hard texture outside yet when you take a bite have a softer feel inside, have a fresh clean feel to it while you eat, am i making any sense??


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2010, 07:39:00 PM »
still,

I should have asked before, but are the salt, yeast and sugar also measured out by volume, or do you weigh them out?

Peter

Offline still

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2010, 07:45:59 PM »
Yeah Peter

just like the oil, salt, yeast and sugar are all measure by volume in a container except for water and flour that i measure by weight

Offline Essen1

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2010, 07:46:03 PM »
AD,

Since I never had a Papa John's pizza I cannot really give any advice on their style of pies.

Peter, however, knows a ton more about PJ's and as you can see from his questions, he's already working on some sort of solution for you.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2010, 08:37:52 PM »
still,

Based on the information you provided, I did some conversions and used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the following for your dough recipe:

Flour (100%):
Water (46.923%):
IDY (0.30649%):
Salt (0.56791%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (0.92423%):
Sugar (0.8113%):
Total (149.53293%):
11793.61 g  |  416 oz | 26 lbs
5533.91 g  |  195.2 oz | 12.2 lbs
36.15 g | 1.27 oz | 0.08 lbs | 12 tsp | 4 tbsp
66.98 g | 2.36 oz | 0.15 lbs | 4 tbsp | 0.25 cups
109 g | 3.84 oz | 0.24 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups
95.68 g | 3.38 oz | 0.21 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups
17635.32 g | 622.06 oz | 38.88 lbs | TF = N/A

The above recipe bears no resemblance to a Papa John's recipe. If you want to make a Papa John's style pizza, you would have to use considerably more sugar and oil, and also more salt.

The main problem I see with your dough formulation is that it does not have enough water, the salt is on the low side, and the mix time you mentioned, 40 minutes, is far too long. The combination of the low hydration and excessive kneading are most likely the cause of the dryness and the difficulty in opening up the dough balls that you have experienced. I can help you with a Papa John's dough formulation if you'd like, but you might first want to try to salvage your current dough recipe by increasing the hydration, increasing the salt, and reducing the knead time. I would recommend that you use the protocol that I posted earlier in this thread. That protocol came from Tom Lehmann, of the American Institute of Baking, and an acknowledged expert in pizza dough making and management.

On the assumption that you will be using the Pillsbury high-gluten flour, I suggest the following dough formulation, based on 26 pounds of the Pillsbury flour:

Pillsbury High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (62%):
IDY (0.30649%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (0.92423%):
Sugar (0.8113%):
Total (165.79202%):
11793.6 g  |  416 oz | 26 lbs
7312.03 g  |  257.92 oz | 16.12 lbs
36.15 g | 1.27 oz | 0.08 lbs | 12 tsp | 4 tbsp
206.39 g | 7.28 oz | 0.45 lbs | 12.33 tbsp | 0.77 cups
109 g | 3.84 oz | 0.24 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups
95.68 g | 3.38 oz | 0.21 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups
19552.85 g | 689.69 oz | 43.11 lbs | TF = N/A

The only things that change in the above dough formulation are the weights of water and salt. All of the other ingredient values are the same as you have been using. On a volume basis, the salt will be a bit over 3/4 cup.

If the above does not meet your needs, you will have to decide in which respects it comes up short and then look for ways to modify the recipe to come closer to what you are after. If you follow the Lehmann procedures with the above dough formulation, I think you will get much better results. You will have to decide whether they are good enough or what you are after. You should also feel free to use the expanded dough calculating tool to come up with your own dough formulations.

If you decide to proceed as outlined above, I hope you will report back on your results.

Peter


Offline still

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2010, 08:54:13 PM »
thank you Peter

I will work on the modified version that you have given and see how it goes. The recipe that i was working on was given to me by the previous owner and i had a hunch it didn't have enough water cause the dough would not stretch at all.... anyway will work on new formula and come back and post here how it goes....once again thanx a million Peter....and mike

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2010, 11:06:36 AM »
This is like pizza therapy. You sit down, tell Peter your problems, he asks a few questions, tells you "it will be all right", and then goes into his bag and gives you a prescription that will help you cope.

I think at some point, the "Dough Doctor" title needs to be seriously scrutinized for ownership.

John

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2010, 11:43:49 AM »
John,

LOL. I used to laugh when I would see Big Dave Ostrander, who wrote for PMQ side by side with Tom Lehmann at one time, refer to himself as the Pizza Doctor. So, we had both a Dough Doctor and a Pizza Doctor. Apparently, the Pizza Doctor appelation is used to this day: http://www.bigdaveostrander.com/. In my mind, there will always only be one Dough Doctor, and that will be Tom Lehmann. I hope some day he decides to write a book on pizza making, maybe when he retires. That book would replace me in a New York minute.

Peter

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2010, 04:07:11 PM »
Peter, what would you recommend for an approximate bake time and temperature for your formulation ?  Thanks in advance.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2010, 04:40:53 PM »
Peter, what would you recommend for an approximate bake time and temperature for your formulation ? 

Jet_deck,

You will note that the dough formulation is very similar to a basic Lehmann NY style dough formulation with a hydration commensurate with a high-gluten flour and a bit of sugar. So I would make the pizza just as you would make a basic NY style. You can plug the baker's percents I posted into the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and plug in whatever thickness factor and pizza size you would like to make, and adjust the bake regimen accordingly. still didn't mention any particular dough ball weight or corresponding pizza size, so you will have to select those mumbers yourself.

Peter

buceriasdon

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Re: need help making or storing pizza dough for my small pizzeria
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2010, 07:55:42 PM »
 Well Doctor Peter, I don't quite know how to say this, I'm kinda at a loss for words but, well, um, ah, I'm just not getting the rise I used to get. At my age I never thought, ah, um you know....... this would happen. Give it to me straight Doctor, I can handle it. Is there something I can do? I'm losing sleep at night, why oh why won't it rise? My wife leaves the crust on the plate.......she never used to do that. Can my marriage and blissful pizza making be saved?
Signed, I'm Not Getting the Rise I Used to Get


This is like pizza therapy. You sit down, tell Peter your problems, he asks a few questions, tells you "it will be all right", and then goes into his bag and gives you a prescription that will help you cope.

I think at some point, the "Dough Doctor" title needs to be seriously scrutinized for ownership.

John



« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 08:01:50 PM by buceriasdon »