Author Topic: Pizza Raquel  (Read 219757 times)

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Offline varasano

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2005, 11:28:39 AM »
Hey guys,

These photos are really looking good.

Jeff


Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2005, 02:55:11 PM »
Key Success Factors to Creating a Home Artisan Pie

I thought it appropriate to describe what I consider to be a true artisan pie and perhaps the key factors associated with being able to eat glorious pie in the comfort of one’s home. I have attempted to cover all the major areas which often lead to a successful result in the home setting. No doubt I will overlook some aspect deemed vital by others so please contribute to the intent of this post where possible.

First, you should have the right approach for the level of achievement you are striving for. If your goal is to produce a “good enough” pie, that’s okay. While it’s not the focus of this thread, I have eaten my fair share of “good enough” pie in my time. Frankly, had I known how long the learning curve would be to climb to an artisan pie, I probably would have turned back. Nah, only kidding!

In order to have the goal of an artisan pie, you must be willing to dedicate the time, energy, effort, and resources to take a simple comfort food and turn it into a gourmet feast. It is not easy. The road is long and completely full of hair-pin turns to be sure. So the litmus test to determine if you are a candidate for artisan home pie making would be to ask yourself a simple question: Do you consider chain pizza good enough?

If your answer is yes then no offense but clearly this thread is not meant for you. I have realized long ago that not everyone wants to produce a gourmet pizza. For those that do however, I would suggest reading further.

A fairly obvious requirement would also be to have the right tools. Reality tells me most people have an ordinary oven in a home setting so about the best I can suggest is to outfit your oven with a stone or tiles as a baseline and crank up the heat as high as possible. One additional thought about ovens is to check the recalibration procedure for your oven and max it out. You may be able to squeeze out another 35 degrees or so. Other tools of importance would be a good mixer, a large prep area, a peel, wheel, scrape, serving tray (which add to the presentation), measuring cups and spoons. Last but not least is the outright requirement for a digital scale. In fact, I recommend not one but two. Since we typically make small batches, some ingredients are very light and could benefit from an ultra precise scale. An ultra precise scale can only measure up to 8 ounces or so but is brutally accurate with ingredients like yeast, salt, and even water. Other ingredients such as flour can benefit from a regular digital scale. Those models generally measure up to 5 lbs or so. You can never be too accurate with ingredients.

There are two points which require expansion here. Quality tools cost real money. I view the cost of my tools as an investment and not a cost. The difference between a cost and an investment in my mind is this: I get a return on my investment – in the form of great tasting pie. Another return is the ability to consistently reproduce a recipe without fear.

Next on the hit parade would be the right recipe. Here I simply mean the right recipe for your tastes. There is no one recipe in the world which is best for everyone. I happen to prefer a NY style pie. If I had access to the best Chicago style recipe in the world, I would turn my nose up to it simply because I don’t care for that style of pie. Others would belly crawl over five miles of jagged glass to get the best Chicago recipe in the world. Not me.

The right recipe to me means that it will produce the type of pie which pleases you the most and it is complete. In other words, it should clearly explain the steps necessary to achieve the end product. The major steps in any recipe would start with ingredient quantities expressed in weights, volumes, measures, and baker’s percentages. Then a description of the proper mixing and stretching steps would be helpful. It should be an end-to-end recipe from the initial mixing steps until the pie comes out of the oven. I happen to be a fan of preferments, high gluten flour, cold rises, and everything else which produces maximum flavor on a thin crust pie.

Ingredients. You need the right ingredients for the type of pizza you plan on making. My general suggestion here is to buy the most expensive ingredients you can get your hands on. The cost between cheap ingredients and the most expensive is not much per pie.

Fresh ingredients such as fresh mutz and fresh herbs like basil are worth the up charge. Better ingredients cost more money there is simply no getting around it. Splurge!

Finally, I believe artisan pizza making all comes down to passion. Whether it is in the home or in a restaurant. You are the secret ingredient. You make the difference between a “good enough” pie and a masterpiece. Sure all the other areas I described briefly above contribute but not to the same degree as a passionate pizza maker. I believe it is primarily because each step of the pizza making process depends in large part on the previous step. If a corner is cut there, a cascading process begins which is unstoppable. It takes a level of caring to take your time with painstakingly precise steps. It takes commitment. It takes effort. It takes passion.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 03:41:53 PM by pftaylor »
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline duckjob

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2005, 06:54:20 PM »
Thanks Peter and pftaylor for the kind words, It means a lot to me coming from you two. I would contribute this great dough primarily to the kneading technique you developed for Pizza Raquel.

As far as the size goes, they are 14 inch pizzas, the dough balls weigh approximately 12 oz. I have about 2.5 ounces of fresh mozzerella and probably about 1/4 cup of sauce.  The extra fermentation was noticable, the 4 day dough was more flavorful than the 1 day.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 07:24:54 PM by duckjob »

Offline IslanderJSF

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2005, 11:02:29 PM »
Greetings.  This is my first post to this board but allow me to say that I have been following the reverse engineering threads and living the experiences along with you all for the past month.  I am finally ready to post as I have made some pizza according to the pizza raquel recipe and am ready to report my results.  My version has been made using a bread machine so hopefully there are some who will find my comments useful and know that even with a bread machine to perform the mixing, a great pizza can be made.

My story goes something like this...  I am originally from Long Island NY.  I now reside in Cincinnati OH which is a desert wasteland for good bagels, chinese food, and especially pizza.  I have been here for 10 years and finally took matters into my own hands last year by trying to make my own pizza.  I worked with the same recipe I found somewhere on the internet for NY style pizza for the enire year.  I was not able to get anything that resembled the type of dough I was used to which was a chewy foldable crust. I was using KASL but my dough would tear easily when stretching.  I played with the amount of water hoping that was the problem but each week my results would vary slightly but ultimately remain the same.  I then found my way to this board at the end of March.  I read and learned and prepared.  I obtained the sourdo italian starters, a digital scale, and a digital thermometer.  The only piece of equipment I haven't yet added is the mixer but it would have to wait for now.

Below is my experience along with photos.  I also try to explain where my process using the bread machine differ from the original Raquel process.

Base Recipe
-----------
Pizza Raquel with oil.  I wanted the highest performing dough and since I have had major problems with tearing dough, I kept the oil.

Ingredient Variances
--------------------
My recipe varied in two areas. 
1) IDY - my scale does not measure less than whole grams so it was impossible for me to be accurate with the IDY.  I believe the amount I used was greater than the prescribed recipe but was OK with this due to point 2 below.
2) Starter - This was my first try with a starter.  I have no clue if it was active.  I followed the instructions but who knows?  There were some bubbles but my hunch is it might not have been fully active.  For this reason I felt the extra IDY may help my cause.  I must say, starter maintenance is a real pain.  I am not sure it is worth it yet.

Mixing Procedure
----------------
According to the raquel process here is where I varied.

1) Stir water and salt ....   Performed the same as in the original instructions but in the bread machine container instead of a mixing bowl.
2) Add half the flour .... Same
3) Mix 30 seconds on sir ....  Here I used the dough cycle on my bread machine for 30 seonds to incorporate the yeast.
4) Add preferment .... Same
5) Mix 1 minute on sitr ....  Here I started a fresh dough cycle and ran it for 1 minute.
6) 20 minute autolyse .... Same
7) Mix on stir for 5 minutes ....  Again I started a fresh dough cycle for 5 minutes and slowly incorporated the remaing flour.
8) Mix on 2/3 for 5 minutes .... Here I kept the cycle running from the previous step for 5 more minutes and added the oil.
9) Check dough temp .... mine was 81.9
10) 15 minute autolyse .... same
11) Knead 2 minutes.... same
12) Cut into 2 pieces ... same
13) refrigerate 24 hours .... same
14) counter rise .... My dough was on the counter for about 3 hours.

In a nutshell this dough was fantastic compared to my previous efforts.  I knew pulling it out of the bread machine that this dough was going to work better.  It definitely appeared to have a higher hydration level than my previous doughs and appeared to be more extensible even before refrigeration.  There was no need to window pane this dough.

My pictures are attached but here are a few observations I made:

1) I was probably too liberal with my oil on the top of the pie.  I chalk this up to rustiness.
2) The crust didn't brown much.  My oven is conventional running at 550 max.  I am considering adding some sugar to help with this.
3) The crust was exceptional in texture, chewiness, and foldability.  I was extremely pleased with the outcome.

All in all I am convinced that this recipe works with a bread machine and I plan on continuing to master it in this way.

A few miscellaneous comments before the pics:
1) The "square" pizzas mentioned in the reverse engineering threads are referred to as "Sicilian" pizzas in NY.  It was pretty customary for my family to order one regualr pie and one sicilian every Friday night while I was at home.  Gosh I miss those days.
2) I am planning a trip back home in July.  MY father is originally from Brooklyn and swears by Tottonos.  I had it when I was younger once but really couldn't appreciate it.  I remember we had a regualr pie and a white pizza.  I am going to try to get there while I am home.  I will offer to do whatever research I can if there is interest.  I will either go there or DiFaras based on feedback from this board.

That's all for now.  I appreciate being a part of the community.  It helps me to know there are people tweaking their barbeques and running self clean cycles to make perfect pizzas.  It helps justify my obsession to my wife.

John
Can't fold it?  Aint real pizza.
Need a knife & fork? Aint real pizza.
Has pineapples or barbeque sauce?  Aint real pizza.
Dont' live in NY?  The only real pizza must be made at home.

Offline scott r

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2005, 02:36:53 AM »
I did some experimenting with Raquel today.  It was my first time with the new dlx mixer, and the sourdo.com starters, and a new recipe, so I decided to make pies at home in my bottom of the line oven.  I have not so affectionately dubbed it the "betty crocker easy bake oven" as it don't think it gets up much past 400 degrees, and it is so small.  Because of this cheap piece of junk I am stuck with in my rented apartment,  I usually make pies for parties at other peoples houses.  With all the new stuff going on I didn't want to screw up with a bunch of hungry friends around waiting for pie.   Although I learned a lot, I really can't say they were the greatest pies I have ever made, but the dough did handle better than anything I have ever made before.  I really think the oven temp was the problem.  After making three pies I had had enough with it and I went in there and disconnected the thermostat.  Now it stays on full blast all the time.  I can't wait for tomorrow and a chance to cook at a decent temp.  I promise to everyone that I will be really careful with this thing!  I am afraid to push it to be too hot.  I really just want to get up to 550 or 600 for now.

All of the pizzas were KASL, no oil, no sugar, and with weighed ingredients. I just used everything at room temp (75 degrees), and was so happy when my final dough temp came out to be 80.5. My sourdough.com starter was the one form the bakery on the island off of Naples.  By the time I used it it had been a bubbly froth for a few feedings.  It was almost the consistency of an extra thick shaving cream. I made two batches of dough. The first was a single raquel with no commercial yeast, only starter.  The second was a double batch with starter, and instant yeast.  I think the single batch is too small for the dlx mixer, maybe even the double.  I think next time I will try a triple.  I don't know if it was because the batches were too small, or if I added the flour too slowly, but I was only able to get about 10 minutes of mixing after the 20 minute rest period.  After 10 minutes, and without all the flour even in there yet, the dough ball just bounced around in the mixer.  I was unable to get a good window pane so I did some extra time with my hand kneading.  I also wanted to try to get some more of the flour in there.  I probably did 8 min instead of the suggested 3. One note about the starter.  This in the room temp 19 hour doughs this flavor is really tart!  It seems like it is going to be much more subdued with the fridge doughs, but I just wanted to warn you guys.  There was nothing subtle about the flavor.  Maybe this recipe is better with a weaker culture than the sourdo.com island starter, or it should be adjusted to have less if you are doing a room temp rise.

Now I know why I am a musician instead of a scientist.  I really wanted to be able to bring something back to the forum because I have learned so much from you guys, and what did I do?  I forgot to label the room temp dough's.  I have no idea which was which, so please forgive me for wasting your time here.  Luckily I did label the refrigerated ones, so I will have more on the differences of those tomorrow.

Pie #1 was a 19 hour room temp rise.  This dough was so alive.  It doubled in size, maybe even more than doubled, and I punched it down.  Another few hours later, and it had almost doubled again. I figured this was the dough with the commercial yeast booster.  It really seemed so full of life when I formed the pie.  I had such high hopes for this dough, but guess what.  This pie sucked.  I don't know what happened, but it was like chewing gum, and had the STRONGEST sour dough taste.  I really began to worry, and regret the past week of constant attention that I had given the starter.  It tasted just like your typical san fran sour dough bread. Maybe even more sour. I am assuming that the dough had just run out of food for the yeasts to feed on when I finally made the pie, and I was using dead dough.

Pie #2 was also a 19 hour room temp rise.  This dough had barely risen at all in the 19 hours.  Nothing like the first dough.  I figured it was the one without the commercial yeast booster.  Now I am really confused as to which was which, because this one had way more spring once cooked.  No more chewing gum, and much less sour dough flavor. I would say the flavor of this dough would have been better if it just had a little more of a yeasty flavor to balance out the sharp sourdough flavor.  Maybe this will come with the refrigerated doughs after more time. Maybe Caputo? The consistency was much better than the first pie, but still not great.  For now I will attribute this to the low oven temp, and the fact that I am still trying to figure out my mixing technique.

Pie #3 was a 24 hour rise in the fridge.  Luckily the fridge doughs were marked, so I know this was one with the instant yeast.  This pie was much more similar to the second pie than the first.  It had even less of  the sourdough flavor, probably the perfect amount.  It had more spring than any, but like pie number 2 it was still a little tough on the outside, and a little too dry and airy on the inside. Once again the oven is probably the culprit here.

A few questions.

Jeff,
what is your minimum size for a batch in the magic mill?  Sorry, I know I read where you said this somewhere else before.  I am having no luck with the search engine, and your posts are adding up!

Is 10 minutes after the first rest enough time for mixing in this thing?  PFT has some exact instructions on timing with his Kitchen Aid, but do you have a longer is better feeling?  I noticed on your website that some of your doughs have gone for what I would consider to be a pretty long time.

Do you think I will be able to mix longer with a bigger batch of dough? 

Questions for anybody willing to help,

The dough handled like Raquel should in the descriptions from PFT, no rips, easy to shape etc.  I am just worried about not being able to get a good window pane right after mixing.  Are you supposed to check for the window pane right after you turn off the mixer, or wait a while for the gluten to chill out?

I really want a dough that is as lighter than your typical NY street pizza, almost soft,  but still very moist on the inside, and crispy on the outside.  I know I will need very high heat for this, and probably a high hydration dough,  but is there anything else I should know with these attributes in mind.  This could very well be what you guys are going for with Raquel.  I just want to make sure I am chasing  after the right girl.  Does the description of my goal sound more like a traditional Neapolitan dough with the caputo flour?  I still haven't had a chance to try a pie like this done correctly so I am not sure.  The closest I have come to tasting  what I want was at Grimaldes.  I can't really say I know what Patsy's is like because when I went there the newer guy gave me two pies that were solid black on the bottom.

Offline varasano

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2005, 07:32:13 AM »
I rarely go under 900g for a batch (2 pounds or about 3 pies). But I think I could get a smaller batch in the machine, now that I know how to use it.  A couple of things. Punching down your dough will make it tough, in my opinion. I never punch down. If your dough doubles in bulk then it is WAY overrisen and will also be tough and dense.  Most of us do a cold rise so this retards the yeast and lets the flavor develop slowly.  Marco uses a room temp rise. If you want to use a room temp rise, you should cut back the amount of yeast A LOT.  Marco uses just 1-3% starter and no IDY (I think).

Also, do not force flour into your dough.  Measuring is fine, but ultimately you have to feel the dough to see if it's got the right amount of flour. If your dough is stuck to the roller before the full kneading time has been reached, then you have added to much flour too quickly. Hand kneading will not solve the problem. In fact I have found that hand kneading actually makes it worse. If the dough is dry enough to comfortably hand knead, it is too dry.  I try to keep all hand kneading to just the minimum I need to shape the balls. Start with about 2/3 of the flour and sprinkle the rest on gradually through the whole kneading cycle. For much of the cycle it will look more like a batter than a dough. This is what you want. If you have a bit of flour left over at the end, don't force it in. Sprinkle a dusting of flour on the dough and press in with your hand. If it's smooth and soft, it's done.

My mixing times are
1 mix
20 rest
10 mix low speed or a bit higher
5 rest
5 mix middle of the dial speed
20 rest

Flour is added continually until the very last minute of mixing.  This method achieves excellent windowpaning every time for me.  However, I get the sense that I may be able to simplify this by removing the 5 min rest in the middle. But I have not tested this.  I do mix much longer than most on this site.

The most valid time to test for windowpaning is after the last rest. But test an extra piece and then toss it. Once you've stretched it out, it will be subpar if you roll it back into a dough. Of course, at this point it's too late to fix anything if it doesn't test well. But you will learn what to do for next time and eventually you won't have to test ever again. I only test if I've made some dramatic change to the recipe. Otherwise I can just tell by feel now.

Have patience. It takes a while.

Jeff
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 07:48:10 AM by varasano »

Offline varasano

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2005, 07:59:14 AM »
I've now make 3 batches with KASL rather than my normal Bread flour. Here's my best guess as to what's happening:

The KASL results in a denser more structured dough. It also cannot take the high heat as well. For those of you baking at low temps, I recommend the KASL over the Bread flour because it seems to brown more quickly. However  you can't really get as light and springy a product out of the KASL. It seems suited for a NY style pizza. For those baking at very high temps and going for a more neopolitan pie, I recommend the bread flour over the KASL.  It takes the high heat better, puffs higher and is overall lighter and more springy. It also has a lighter feel on the stomach.  Also the KASL does not do as well with a very long rise. But overall the flavor of the 2 flours is identical.

Next I will test the Caputo 00 Pizzeria. This has even less gluten than the KA Bread, and thus I'm guessing it will do even better at very high temps (and even worse at low temps).  But I may not get to these tests for a while.

Offline dankfoot

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2005, 09:59:31 AM »
It looks like Raquel is starting to get around.  ;)

I will try her again this week and post the pics. I think im going to make one large pizza instead of 2 pies.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2005, 10:10:50 AM »
IslanderJSF,

I applaud you for the thorough and detailed explanation of your efforts to try the Raquel recipe using a bread machine. In my view, the bread machine is the toughest machine to use to make high-quality pizza dough. So, any effort on your part to make it easier to use a bread machine for pizza dough production is to be commended.

Your pizza looks fine except that I am puzzled by the lack of more color in the top crust. The bottom browning looks fine but, unless the photo flash washed out the top crust color, there should have been more top crust browning. From my experience, lack of crust browning is caused by one or more of the following: 1) use of a relatively low-protein flour like a 00 flour, 2) insufficient extraction of natural sugar from the flour, examples of this being a same-day dough made within a few hours or a retarded dough with insufficient fermentation, 3) overfermentation and loss of fermentable sugar because of the excessive fermentation, and 4) oven temperature/baking problems. I don't think the lack of added sugar is the problem, although it might improve browning. On the assumption that you used KASL, after 24 hours of retardation, there should have been plenty of natural sugar left in the dough, especially with the Raquel recipe where the experience of most who have made dough based on that recipe is to get several days of useful life out of the dough and decent crust browning.

Unless your bread machine is at fault--and I don't see anything offhand that you did wrong (in fact, I'm impressed with the lengths to which you went to do what you did)--I'm inclined to suspect your oven or baking technique. However, before exploring that possibility, I'd like to point out that in your detailed machine processing instructions, you did not mention when and how you added the IDY. (Usually the IDY is added directly to the flour.) If, for some reason, you forgot to actually add the IDY and, if your preferment was on the weak side, it's possible that there was inadequate fermentation of the dough and insufficient extraction of natural sugar to be available for caramelization and the production of color in the crust. You didn't say how long the pizza was baked, but if it was longer than would normally be required (around 6-8 minutes for the Raquel recipe), the bottom of the crust could brown up while the top of the crust doesn't. At this point, almost no amount of further baking time will cure the problem and you will find yourself taking the pizza out of the oven before the toppings start to burn.

If insufficient sugar extraction was not the cause of your color problem, then that takes us back to the oven. Sometimes people will open the oven door to check on the pizza and, in the process, lose a lot of oven heat. Or they will completely tile an oven rack such that there is little or no space around the tiles to allow heat to reach the top of a pie. The tiles will get very hot but the pizza will get insufficient heat for top crust browning. You didn't indicate what baking technique you used (i.e., pizza stone or tiles), but I suspect that your stone or tiles and their positioning in the oven are not at fault, especially in light of the fact that you apparently have been making pizzas for some time without incident. You could move your pizza under the broiler for a minute or so to get increased top crust browning, but you should have been able to get adequate browning without doing that, and especially with a flour like the KASL. I don't know what kind of oven you have, but if any of the above possibilities were at fault, you should be able to correct the problem fairly easily. You might want to doublecheck your oven temperatures and especially the temperature at the surface of the stone/tiles to be sure they are at the proper temperature at the time of baking (usually you will need an hour or so of preheating at 500-550 degrees F).

Please let us know if you determine the source of the browning problem. I also look forward to the results of your further experimentation with your bread machine.

Peter


Offline IslanderJSF

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2005, 04:41:40 PM »
Pete-zza,

I appreciate your thoughts on the crust.

There were no camera/flash issues here.  I am as puzzled as you are by the lack of color in my crust.  Generally speaking I have not found my crusts to brown tremendously but this particular one was as white as I've seen.

To address some of your comments:

The IDY was added in the first step and incorporated into the flour. 
My oven was pre-heated on 550 for over an hour.
I am using a stone which is set in the middle of the lowest oven rack. 
The dough was a 24 hour refrigerated rise with 3 hours on the counter which doesn't strike me as out of bounds for sugar production.

I will say that this pizza was only cooked for about 6 1/2 minutes.  This could be the cause of the problem.  It had been well over a month since I made one and the rust definitely showed.  I was concerned with overcooking (even though I have never really done this with my oven) so I did check on it quite regularly which meant a few times opening the oven door.  I hope this is the main cause of the problem.  Although I cooked this pizza at 550 I have found that my pizzas seem to do better around 500. With my next batch I will shoot for a cook time closer to 8 minutes as long as my toppings aren't burning.  I think I will try this before resorting to adding sugar to the recipe. 

As for the bread machine, pftaylor's instructions worked pretty well with it.  The only tricky part was learning the bread machine's dough cycle enough to understand when to reset it and when to let it continue to resemble the mixing speeds.

I believe I have a setup similar to yours.  With your Raquel attempts how long have you been cooking your pizza and at what temp? My stone is 14 inches so I probably need to reduce the dough ball size to accommodate the reduced pie size although I didn't feel that the pizza was too thick.  I have a couple batches planned for the next few weeks so hopefully I can nail down these minor issues.  It is much more pleasurable concentrating on details like this instead of issues like tearing dough.

John

Can't fold it?  Aint real pizza.
Need a knife & fork? Aint real pizza.
Has pineapples or barbeque sauce?  Aint real pizza.
Dont' live in NY?  The only real pizza must be made at home.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2005, 05:23:10 PM »
John,

The maximum pizza size my pizza stone can accommodate is 14 inches, which is why I downsized the Raquel recipe to that size. My usual practice is to bake on the stone (on the lowest oven rack) for about 5-6 minutes and then transfer the pizza to the uppermost rack, just below the broiler, and bake for about another minute or two under the broiler. Sometimes I will put a second stone on the top oven rack and preheat it, along with the lower pizza stone. Whether I use the second stone or not, I can't say that I notice a big difference. I usually turn the broiler on about 3 minutes or so into the bake process. Whether I use one stone or two, I preheat the oven for about an hour (a bit longer if I use two stones) at about 500-550 degrees F.

I agree that it may make sense to try a 500 degree F bake temperature (Tom Lehmann advocates around 450-500 degrees F) and lengthen the bake time, if for no reason other than to see if that improves the color in the crust. It may well have been that opening the door a few times lowered the ambient temperature of the oven by enough (I bet it was quite a bit over a hundred degrees) to prevent the top crust of the pizza from browning up sufficiently, even though the stone was still very hot. Opening the door to move the pizza from the stone to a position just under the broiler is not a problem because of the high direct broiler heat. In fact, the oven manufacturers often suggest that the oven door be kept ajar during the broil cycle.

Please let us know the results of your next attempt.

Peter

Offline Crusty

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2005, 09:15:56 PM »
IslanderJSF, my take is that the leading cause of the problem was the position of the stone in the oven.  Try moving your stone up a rack or two. My bet is that the position of the stone caused an "out of synch" condition where the bottom was on its way but the top did not recieve the higher oven temps that exist at the higher racks.  I experienced a similar condition when I had my stone on the bottom rack and in addition placed another stone three racks up to create a lower profile oven space.  It did not work beacause the bottom was browning but the top did not get the heat.  Also I beleive the pie was undercooked....try more time as another experiment.

Regards,

Crusty

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2005, 06:21:53 AM »
IslanderJSF,
Glad to see that your apparent tearing problems are over. I look forward to seeing your next batch. After reading your detailed post I would suspect you may have opened the oven door one too many times.

My Raquel crust only browns in the last minute of grilling and if I open the hood too soon, I can't get browning either. One of the tricks I now employ, to keep toppings from burning, is to slice the cheese and place it in the freezer for a short period of time prior to dressing the skin. Try it, it may work for you as well.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #63 on: May 06, 2005, 09:44:41 PM »
Here are photographs of my latest Pizza Raquel effort:
- 12 hour warm rise
- Grande Whole Mutz
- Flora D.O.P. Pomodori San Marzano (new brand @ only $2.99 28oz can)
- Grated Romano after grilling
- I had to pop a lot of bubbles hence the relative lack of spring

The new brand of San Marzano tomatoes were just as good as any D.O.P. San Marzano I have eaten to date.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2005, 10:01:32 PM by pftaylor »
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline itsinthesauce

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2005, 08:45:25 AM »
Outstanding!

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2005, 08:57:22 AM »
itsinthesauce,
Thanks for the kind words.

Every time I use Grande cheese, it gives a NY Street appearance to Pizza Raquel. Here is the exact list of ingredients I used:

Ingredients Used to Mix Dough:
King Arthur Sir Lancelot Flour
Bottled Water
Varasano Preferment
Sicilian Sea Salt
IDY

Ingredients Used to Dress Dough:
Flora Pomodori San Marzano Dell’Agro Sarnese Nocerino D.O.P.
Grande Whole Milk Mozzarella Cheese
Italian Dry Spices
Locatelli Romano
Fresh Basil
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2005, 12:36:33 PM »
Here is my latest effort to craft a pepperoni version of Pizza Raquel. My son really likes this version of Raquel. The pepperoni made the pie quite juicy.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com


Offline itsinthesauce

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2005, 05:00:04 PM »
I'd have to say that you nailed it.

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2005, 02:26:21 PM »
Thanks for the compliment. Here is the effort for the day:
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline duckjob

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2005, 01:54:25 AM »
I had a nice little experience at work today. There is a woman I work with who lived in New York until she was in her mid 20's, and so I asked her if I could get her opinion on my pizza.  I brought her in a couple slices, she took a bite, and her face lit up. She said that she hadn't had pizza like that since she moved out here. She commented that the thin crust with the chewy airy rim was nearly identical to what she was used to in New York. Needless to say, it made my day. The modified raquel I made is described in this thread : http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg11640.html#msg11640 I find that the higher hydration results in a more airy crust since I don't have access to the kind of heat that varsano and pftaylor have. Anyway, just wanted to share my experience,  I look forward to picking up some caputo 00 and giving Sophia a try.

Brian

Offline varasano

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2005, 10:30:38 AM »
hey pft,

You pies look great. I would make one suggestion. Try a pie with a slightly higher hydration, like 63 and a longer cold rise and see.  I think you will find that it's lighter and more springy with more flavor too.

Jeff

Offline duckjob

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2005, 04:02:36 PM »
hey pft,

You pies look great. I would make one suggestion. Try a pie with a slightly higher hydration, like 63 and a longer cold rise and see.  I think you will find that it's lighter and more springy with more flavor too.

Jeff

I agree, I have found the sweet spot with this dough to be about  a 3 day cold rise.

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2005, 05:44:14 PM »
All,
I am always willing to try higher hydration percentages with Pizza Raquel. Who knows, maybe a better pie will result.

With my current travel schedule it's difficult to do more than a same day or full day rise. But I would agree that more than one day adds flavor. The Varasano preferment gets quite flavorful after the first day.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2005, 03:50:20 PM »
I came back from a weekend in Ft. Lauderdale and had just enough time to do a 10 hour cold rise Pizza Raquel followed by a 2 hour counter rise. The crust was generally softer to the touch but the taste was full on. The first pie was a standard pepperoni, the second was a Margherita.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizza Raquel
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2005, 03:51:18 PM »
And the Margherita...
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com


 

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