Author Topic: Keste Clone  (Read 23424 times)

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Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2011, 06:13:49 PM »
thank you for quick answer john.
your pies are truly astounding.
perfection!


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2011, 07:32:44 PM »
Thanks Michael!

John

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2011, 07:55:43 PM »
john i wanted to try dough similar to than, but i got mixed with the amount of yeast instead of 0.075 i puted 0.75 :-\
550 gram bread flour
420 gram/cc water
i added sugar 1.5 tsp
1tsp salt not loaded
3.5-4 gram cy
my house tem is between 19-20 cl
i puted the dough in plastic box and opened  a litel the cover otherwise it will open from it self
lets see what will happen i did the dough 4 hours ago, and it start to ferment, i see litel bubbles 3mm-4.5mm size
here its 3 am i am off to sleep lets see what i will find in the morning
i was planing to make the pies about 16 hours from now, i hope it will be okay
i am trying to understand, Roberto at the video: after mixing the dough, the dough is puted into conteinor over night, then rolled into balls and antoher 24-30 hours rise?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 08:03:50 PM by msheetrit »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2011, 07:18:27 AM »
Michael - Put the dough in the fridge instead of doing the room temp ferment. That amount of yeast should be fine for a 16 hour rest in the fridge. This way you can extend the fermentation time without it being overblown.

In the video, the total fermentation time is 30-40 hours. The dough is balled after 24, and is allowed to proof until use.

John

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2011, 07:28:03 AM »
 :) this morning 4 hour after my reply i puted the dough in the fridgh. i let it out now in about 2 hour from now i plann to make the bowl.
but i want to do another dough with the 0.075 amount of yeast.
i hope you dont mind i am writing in your thread john, if it doesent please tell me.
and thank you for replying john.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2011, 07:31:28 AM »
i hope you dont mind i am writing in your thread john, if it doesent please tell me.

By no means is this my thread, this is a forum - we are all learning! Glad to extend some help, as so many here have helped me.

Looking forward to seeing your results.

John

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2011, 12:28:05 PM »
i am glad to hear i will post
i never worked with 76% water

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2011, 10:01:38 PM »
well its have been a while since my last reply to your thread john, it gave me lots of material to think about, and i want to ask couple of questions.
when i mixed with the amount of yeast from 0.075% to 0.75% the whole process became somthing else, not bad but somthing else. so i want to go back a litel bit and try to understand some basic fact, and those basic fact/stuff thats what i want to ask you john. and please correct me if i am wrong.
i think that in 30 hours room temp fermenting somthing diferent happening from cold fermenting in the fridge and i might be mistaken, that lead me to ask, before reshaping the dough into balls after mixing, in the 24 hour that the dough is outside in the room fermenting is it covered? or does it have space to "breathe" and grow wild yeast ?
the reason i am asking that is because when i read this thread i was curious to see what will happen when i make it, but it went to diferent path and i havent got the chance to see, it made me think maybe the small amount of yeast is just the spark for the whole process and somthing else happens here. if i am right then this formula is somthing very unique. and somthing i want to experience with, it looks to me it is similar to the dough i make usually but multiplied by at least 25 time of hours for rising and would be somthing that would taste the taste i am searching.
 
as for how it went and how it came out, i have to say i dont realy like cold fermenting, every time i go with it the taste of the dough feels to me litel numb. the color seems to be litel bit yello and somthing look like its not baked enough inside. the color of the crust is missing a shade, and beside the fact that the dough is very strong and that i am the only one that think this way here its a litel too much chewy for my taste.

but somthing truly amazing happened, somthing that i will remember for my whole life :) and somthing to think about in the future and smile while looking back at it.
my only child, my doughter, my 10 month old baby, oriane. who i love more then my own life it self tasted pizza for the first time of her life. my pizza! my wife, her mom let her ate pizza because i made it only from natural ingredients. the sauce, the dough, topping, every thing. no pouder, no paste, nothing from a cann. she doesent have yet teeth, but she ate my pizza, and loved it! she enjoyed the cheeze, the crumb as you can see in the photo. it was very exciting  :D she was smiling and laughing.
i am glad to post her photo in your thread john.
take a look at the love of my life in the photo i even tattod her name on my arm :)

« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 10:53:15 PM by msheetrit »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2011, 07:05:31 AM »
Michael - What a glorious picture to have posted of your daughter. I know the feeling all to well. As far as Oriane is concerned, it seems, you nailed that Keste clone!

As for the room temp cover question, keeping the cover on will prevent the dough from drying out and forming a crust. And the amount of wild yeast in the air is minuscule compared to the .075% you have in the formulation. I asked this very same question toward the beginning of this thread.

John

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2011, 07:32:51 AM »
Michael, what a beautiful baby girl you have and what a great experience and story about your daughter's first pizza.  I have a 16 month old girl who enjoys eating my pizza crust and spoonfuls of pizza sauce.  It's like she can't get enough of it.

Chau
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 09:37:44 AM by Jackie Tran »


Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2011, 07:58:21 AM »
thank you chau and john for your kind  ward. its so much fun to see poeple love to eat things you make especially friends and family :).
john so i understand that the cover is seal while the dough fermented...
and yes i know about the amount of yeast but my question was about 0.075% yeast in the dough.

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2011, 02:22:03 PM »
i have posted the result of the dough i made here i reply 49 (its ny style)
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12548.40.html
take a look at the crumb.

tomorrow i will make pizza so i continue experimenting. i need dough to be bake after 23 hour fermenting in room temp similar to your keste clone formula john. i decided to do it right this time, but your formula is to 30 hours in total, so i uper a a litel bit the amount of yeast from 0.075% to 0.15%.
i bought digital scale so from now on the amounts will be precise. from first time using it in dough making i am realy satisfied. and i have to wright every thing in grams, oz, lb even though in israel we only use gram, but its for you guys and for being accurate.
here is the dough.
Flour (100%):            250 g    |  8.45 oz | 0.55 lbs
Water (70%):            175 g    |  5.91  oz | 0.38 lbs |     temp 22 cl | 71.6 f
CY (.15%):                0.375 g | 0.012 oz | 0 lbs |
sea Salt (1.2%):         3 g       | 0.10 oz   | 0.006 lbs | 0.5 tsp |
olive oil (0.8 %)         2 g       | 0.06 oz   | 0.004 lbs |
sugar (6 %)               15 g     | 0.5 oz     | 0.03 lbs |  2 tsp|
Total (178.15 %):      405 g   | 13.69 oz  | 0.89 lbs |  lost a litel weight in the mixer
Single Ball:               405 g   | 13.69 oz  | 0.89 lbs |
puted the mixture in oiled box covered and now its fermenting in room temp between 18cl at night to 22 cl at daytime/ 64.4 -71.6 f
i will update what happened tomorrow. my oven is home oven so it will be ny style but because of the dough experiment i will post the result. this picture taken after closing the cover and started fermenting.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 02:31:39 PM by msheetrit »

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2011, 04:11:53 PM »
the more you learn the less you know. now i realise what does it mean, the dough was disaster.
the basic of my dough development was wrong from the begining. but now that i know what to do i plan to do the experiment of 30 hour room fermented again soon. 
the dough i made went to the trash.


« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 04:14:02 PM by msheetrit »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2011, 04:29:05 PM »
Michael, what was it about this dough that you were not happy about?

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2011, 04:39:10 PM »
6% sugar, it probably blew up like a balloon, and popped like one as well.

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2011, 06:36:49 PM »
actuly the sugar is fine. that is the right amount i need for the color i want to reach. 500 gram of flour 4 tsp its ok. 

the whole procces of my dough making was wrong to begin with. i posted about this here today on reply 52

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12548.40.html

but now its okay i plan to fight back and do the formula with the 0.075 yeast and room fermenting for 30 hours again
 
soon

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2011, 03:17:47 AM »
john,
yesterday i maked dough
100% flour
60%water
1.2% salt
1%sugar
1% oil
0.085% cy
i needed the dough to be ready in 22 hours for baking, in room temp which in my house is between 19-21cl.
this morning after less then 10 hours the dough double it size  ??? ???
how is it normal?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 03:22:14 AM by msheetrit »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2011, 06:53:43 AM »
john,
yesterday i maked dough
100% flour
60%water
1.2% salt
1%sugar
1% oil
0.085% cy
i needed the dough to be ready in 22 hours for baking, in room temp which in my house is between 19-21cl.
this morning after less then 10 hours the dough double it size  ??? ???
how is it normal?

Michael - It still looks fine, and you should be able to use it at 22 hours. When you ball it, it will have the effect of being punched down a little. The main culprit is the low amount of salt. I use up to 3% salt - 1.2 is too low, and the yeast are having a party. I would also make sure that the water temperature is room temp or a bit cooler since you are also using sugar.

John

Pizza01

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2011, 10:58:46 AM »
this photo has been taken today after 17 hours, the dough triple it size.
i hope its ok to use it and its not overproofe.
i divided it into 2 balls, each one 450 gram. dont like too much salt.
how do you dissolve your cy john?

Tscarborough i lower the sugar, snd i was mistaken last time, it was 3% sugar
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 11:02:12 AM by msheetrit »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Keste Clone
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2011, 12:32:18 PM »
this photo has been taken today after 17 hours, the dough triple it size.
i hope its ok to use it and its not overproofe.
i divided it into 2 balls, each one 450 gram. dont like too much salt.
how do you dissolve your cy john?

Tscarborough i lower the sugar, snd i was mistaken last time, it was 3% sugar

Michael - I simply squeeze the yeast between my fingers until it dissolves. Regarding the salt, it acts as an inhibitor in the fermentation process. If you are intent on using that low of salt, you might be better off using less yeast (say, .05%) for your 22 hour period - or using colder water at the beginning of the mix. Let us know how it turns out.

John