Author Topic: How hot can a standard gas oven get? (Read 8560 times)

Pete-zza · « **Reply #40 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:12:14 PM »

scott123,

Maybe you already know this, but scott r informed us a while back that Papa Gino's, the regional northeast pizza chain, uses/used the Spring King flour, as was noted in Reply 102 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg80731/topicseen.html#msg80731.

Peter

norma427 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:13:44 PM »

Quote from: PapaJon on February 09, 2011, 07:13:00 PM

Hi Norma, I've read a good number of your posts on these forums and they are filled with good advise and questions, and so I appreciate your comments here in this thread. Thanks!

Right now, I think any good HG flour would be an improvement and I'd buy almost anything I could get my hands on. The catch is if I'm going to go with a 25# or 50# bag I'm more concerned with getting it right (or close to right) the first time. This is why I still not picked up the La Romanelle from Smart and Final pictured below.

BTW, I scavenged some steel rebar and steel stakes from a construction yard scrap pile. I'm hoping I'll be able to cut it when I get home. If I can get the oven set up changed, I may make a couple pies tonight

Jon,

I appreciate you have read some of my posts and questions. I am always questioning everything, from flour, hydration, baking stones, to other ingredients and do a fair amount of experimenting with different flours and other things. I have even experimented with making a NY style with common Better for Bread flour and did like the results in my home oven. Even Chau, has used different flours and has gotten good results. I don’t have any problems with oven spring at home. (my home oven can only get around 500 degrees F.) In my opinion, even KABF can give good results. I have tried soapstone in my home oven and I can get better results with using my Cordierite baking stone in my home oven. I am not familiar with La Romanelle from Smart and Final, so I have no opinions on using that.

I will let it up to Scott to guide you, since he has been helping you. I just wanted to let you know my experiences in trying different flours.

Best of luck if you make pies tonight!

Norma

PapaJon · « **Reply #42 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:14:54 PM »

Hrmm, further development, but possibly a sweet deal.

I emailed the General Mills rep for California/Hawaii asking to find out who would be a local distributor and got the below response.

Quote

I would suggest working with Sysco Los Angeles. They are a great distributor. In the meantime I can send you samples of flour, however we can’t sell bromated flour in CA.

Where can I send the All Trumps, Supreme & Remarkable?

Sysco also has a great high gluten under their label of Arrezio which I recommend.

PapaJon · « **Reply #43 on:** February 10, 2011, 03:10:53 PM »

Quote from: scott123 on February 02, 2011, 09:10:24 PM

2. Rebar. It's really along the same lines as the flat steel rod, thing, just round and a bit cheaper. 4 pieces should allow you to suspend 2 12" tiles and 2 6" tiles.

Geez Scott, you failed to mention this stuff can be a

to cut without the proper tools. I have a very nice and smooth piece of metal which once upon a time used to be a jigsaw blade specifically designed to cut metal, but evidentially not rebar. I’ve Googled for a solution but now am trying to figure out a method that would not involve buying a masonry or diamond saw blade.
To be honest I really didn’t have much time last night and so the jigsaw was all I tried and when it failed I gave up. Maybe the angle grinder will work, but I’m not sure what blades I have.

PapaJon · « **Reply #44 on:** February 10, 2011, 04:57:34 PM »

A general question: There is much talk over the protein content in flour however there is less talk about the ash contents. Presumably this is because it has no effect on the pizza dough. If this presumption is false then what effects does it have?

Quote from: Wikipedia

In some markets, the different available flour varieties are labeled according to the ash mass ("mineral content") that remains after a sample is incinerated in a laboratory oven (typically at 550 °C or 900 °C, see international standards ISO 2171 and ICC 104/1). This is an easily verified indicator for the fraction of the whole grain remains in the flour, because the mineral content of the starchy endosperm is much lower than that of the outer parts of the grain. Flour made from all parts of the grain (extraction rate: 100%) leaves about 2 g ash or more per 100 g dry flour. Plain white flour (extraction rate: 50–60%) leaves only about 0.4 g.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #45 on:** February 10, 2011, 05:45:08 PM »

Jon,

I am not a flour expert but my understanding of ash is that its value is indicative (indirectly) of the extent of extraction of bran and minerals and, as such, can have an effect on the color of the flour and the taste of the finished crust. The ash content of a flour can also affect its absorption characteristics. You can read more about this topic at http://web.archive.org/web/20060208023504/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/15ec5c94af1251cdac2d7a25848f0e27/miscdocs/Flour%20Guide.pdf. As you might imagine, different flours, both domestic and imported, have different ash values. For example, a 00 flour such as the Caputo flour has an ash content of around 0.50 and for the San Felice 00 flour, which is a stronger 00 flour, it is 0.55, as noted at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2951.msg25328/topicseen.html#msg25328 (FYI, the word "ceneri" in Italian means ashes). However, it should be kept in mind that ash values of imported flours are not directly comparable to the ash values as reported in the U.S., as noted in the abovereferenced King Arthur article on flour.

You can see how the King Arthur flours vary in ash content at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/specifications-conventional-bakery-flour.html. In the King Arthur document, the Special flour is a professional flour that is the same as the retail KABF and the Sir Galahad flour is a professional flour that is the same as the retail KAAP. You will also note from the King Arthur document at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/Organic-bakery-flours.html that the KA organic flours have higher ash values. Some millers strive for higher ash values than others but a value of around 0.50-0.54 is fairly typical for standard white flours. Most of the General Mills professional flours, both those milled from spring wheat and winter wheat, fall within that range. As you might expect, whole wheat flours have higher ash values than regular white flours.

Peter

buceriasdon · « **Reply #46 on:** February 10, 2011, 05:52:53 PM »

Rebar is crap steel, lots of recyled whatever in it, however it still should be cuttable with a new metal jig saw blade. More work but a hacksaw would do it also. Try cutting at slow speed and coat the blade with a bar of soap from time to time. If you do have an 4" angle grinder you can get a metal cutting disc at the big box stores. To me the fastest method. For example: http://power-tools.hardwarestore.com/54-359-grinding-wheel-metal/bosch-metal-cutting-disc-649462.aspx
Don

Quote from: PapaJon on February 10, 2011, 03:10:53 PM

Geez Scott, you failed to mention this stuff can be a to cut without the proper tools. I have a very nice and smooth piece of metal which once upon a time used to be a jigsaw blade specifically designed to cut metal, but evidentially not rebar. I’ve Googled for a solution but now am trying to figure out a method that would not involve buying a masonry or diamond saw blade.
To be honest I really didn’t have much time last night and so the jigsaw was all I tried and when it failed I gave up. Maybe the angle grinder will work, but I’m not sure what blades I have.

scott123 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 10, 2011, 06:16:11 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on February 09, 2011, 08:12:14 PM

scott123,

Maybe you already know this, but scott r informed us a while back that Papa Gino's, the regional northeast pizza chain, uses/used the Spring King flour, as was noted in Reply 102 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg80731/topicseen.html#msg80731.

Peter

Peter, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.

scott123 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 10, 2011, 06:23:22 PM »

Quote from: PapaJon on February 10, 2011, 03:10:53 PM

Geez Scott, you failed to mention this stuff can be a to cut without the proper tools.

Did I? I could have sworn I might have said something earlier about

Quote from: scott123 on January 31, 2011, 02:03:40 PM

Home depot has flat steel rods that can be cut with a hacksaw and rested on the shelf lips on both sides of the oven.

All kidding aside, cutting steel is a major pain in the butt (ceramic as well). I'm not sure how thick the scrap rebar you found is, but I was kind of envisioning something along the lines of 1/4" rebar. I wouldn't call it a walk in the park, but a hacksaw and some elbow grease should make pretty short of work of that.

PapaJon · « **Reply #49 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:05:46 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on February 10, 2011, 05:45:08 PM

I am not a flour expert but

Ok whatever

You are humble, but if indeed you fail the expert test you more importantly are a walking database of links to experts. Your comments and links are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

The question actual came up when I was comparing the specs from two GM flours. One was a rebrand they mill for Sysco which they sent me a spec sheet too. I wish I could post word documents as post attachments so you could see. Maybe I will turn it into a jpg, but I’m not sure how legible it will be.

Quote from: buceriasdon on February 10, 2011, 05:52:53 PM

Rebar is crap steel, lots of recyled whatever in it, however it still should be cuttable with a new metal jig saw blade. More work but a hacksaw would do it also. Try cutting at slow speed and coat the blade with a bar of soap from time to time. If you do have an 4" angle grinder you can get a metal cutting disc at the big box stores. To me the fastest method. For example: http://power-tools.hardwarestore.com/54-359-grinding-wheel-metal/bosch-metal-cutting-disc-649462.aspx
Don

Thanks for the advice. I will give it a go again tonight.

Quote from: scott123 on February 10, 2011, 06:23:22 PM

I'm not sure how thick the scrap rebar you found is, but I was kind of envisioning something along the lines of 1/4" rebar. I wouldn't call it a walk in the park, but a hacksaw and some elbow grease should make pretty short of work of that.

I actually got 1/4" which is a little bent, but I also got 3/4" as well as the flat steel stakes. I figured though that if I couldn't cut scratch the rebar there was no way I'd make a dent in a stake. More sparks to come tonight though. The grinder will see action.

PapaJon · « **Reply #50 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:15:03 PM »

Spec sheets attached. Sorry quality is crap due to file size limit.

Note only difference is 0.02% Ash level

scott123 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:08:27 PM »

Cutting rebar?

I don't think that rebar is 'hardened' steel, but here's some good suggestions for working with an angle grinder


How to cut hardened steel

Best way to cut rebar?

It seems like the angle grinder with a cut off wheel is a popular choice. Here are some cut off wheels:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100325114/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=cut+off+wheel&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&resnum=3&biw=937&bih=693&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4702737312688016528&ei=mIpUTbbZIMGAlAeb-LWwBw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CI8BEPMCMAU#

Jet_deck · « **Reply #52 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:42:36 PM »

The best way to accomplish cutting the small round stuff is indeed the cutoff wheel. They are just a bit thicker than a dime and will cut nearly anything steel and will cut stainless, also.

An easier solution is to load the pieces of rebar in the car, and drive to Home Depot/ Lowes. Put the rebar in a shopping basket, have it marked as yours on the way in. Go to the isle that sells chain, order 6" of the cheapest chain that needs to be cut with their handy dandy cutter (you can't use it yourself) When they cut your chain, say " I need this rebar cut for some garden stakes " a big smile helps here, or send the wife/ girlfriend. Chop, chop, snip, snip. There you go...

PapaJon · « **Reply #53 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:20:23 PM »

Well the metal cutting wheel on the grinder worked great. It cut the steel stakes nicely, and although I purchased two new blades it turned out I had an old one already on the grinder which I didn't even need to replace.

I placed the quarry tiles smooth side facing down thinking that although they are unglazed that maybe the smoother surface would still reflect heat better. That said the rough side might be darker and therefore radiate heat better...

PapaJon · « **Reply #54 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:29:06 PM »

The baking...
I did not see temps in the 700's but I was hitting 650+ on the stone and tiles. I still need to get used to the setup but I think it's a good base at least to begin focusing more on the pizza's than the oven.

The three pie's I baked in order were:
1) Salami, and BelGioioso Mozz (first time using block cheese).
2) Pepperoni and BelGioioso Mozz (ripped larger cheese slices into smaller bits)
3) Shredded Costco Cheese w/ half side capers (Note to self, never use capers on pizza again)

PapaJon · « **Reply #55 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:29:38 PM »

More pics

PapaJon · « **Reply #56 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:31:11 PM »

I also baked some french baguettes for the first time, RIP.

jerrym · « **Reply #57 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:56:08 AM »

PapJon,

much appreciate that oven pic 2 showing the stone and the tiles.

a few weeks ago out of interest i moved my "stone" down from the 1st shelf onto the metal base of the oven and got burnt pizza at 5 mins bake. worse still the top was not cooked.

i parked this setup at the time as not workable but now realize from your pic i have a chance by introducing the double stack. many thanks.

PapaJon · « **Reply #58 on:** February 14, 2011, 03:52:47 AM »

Hi Jerry,
Glad my pictures helped. My oven is a nice 24 x 18" so a mix of 12x12 and 6x6 quarry tiles worked perfectly. One thing that isn't obvious from the pictures is that the 6x6 tiles are thinner than the 12x12s. While they are thicker than half the thickness of the 12x12s I wen went ahead and put two layers of 6x6 since I had purchased 2sq feet.

I made some additional changes to the set up after I acquired some more scrap steel stakes (4pc). Since the original rack was raised up in the back this meant the tiles were originally not level. With the new set up they are now level as well as lower since I dropped the tiles down one level. The new gap between the quarry tiles and cordierite stone is now 2.75" (actually it's 3", but the stakes that are holding the quarry stones are 1/4" thick. This will be interesting to bake in, since I'm not forgetting the additional 1/4" thick peel will mean my working space will be even narrower.

scott123 · « **Reply #59 on:** February 14, 2011, 08:48:00 PM »

Jon, we have members here who work with 2.5" vertical spaces, but I think it takes some practice to work in those kinds of quarters. If you can work with this comfortably, I think your top browning issues should be over. You won't be able to do Neapolitan with your setup, but you'll be in good stead with all the other styles.

If that vertical space ends up being too cramped, I'd give another thought to putting the cordierite on kiln posts on the floor. The nice thing about kiln posts is that they make them in 1/4" increments so you can fine tune your vertical opening to your heart's content.

650 is a little too high with 1" cordierite and malted flour. I would go lower- 625, possibly even 600.

Would you happen to recall the bake times for these last set of pies?