Author Topic: How hot can a standard gas oven get?  (Read 17759 times)

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Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2011, 07:15:03 PM »
Spec sheets attached.   Sorry quality is crap due to file size limit.

Note only difference is 0.02% Ash level
Jon



Offline Jet_deck

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2011, 10:42:36 PM »
The best way to accomplish cutting the small round stuff is indeed the cutoff wheel.  They are just a bit thicker than a dime and will cut nearly anything steel and will cut stainless, also.

An easier solution is to load the pieces of rebar in the car, and drive to Home Depot/ Lowes.  Put the rebar in a shopping basket, have it marked as yours on the way in.  Go to the isle that sells chain, order 6" of the cheapest chain that needs to be cut with their handy dandy cutter (you can't use it yourself)  When they cut your chain, say " I need this rebar cut for some garden stakes "  a big smile helps here, or send the wife/ girlfriend.  Chop, chop, snip, snip.  There you go...
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2011, 01:20:23 PM »
Well the metal cutting wheel on the grinder worked great.  It cut the steel stakes nicely, and although I purchased two new blades it turned out I had an old one already on the grinder which I didn't even need to replace.

I placed the quarry tiles smooth side facing down thinking that although they are unglazed that maybe the smoother surface would still reflect heat better.  That said the rough side might be darker and therefore radiate heat better...   ???
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 01:22:01 PM by PapaJon »
Jon

Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2011, 01:29:06 PM »
The baking...
I did not see temps in the 700's but I was hitting 650+ on the stone and tiles.  I still need to get used to the setup but I think it's a good base at least to begin focusing more on the pizza's than the oven.

The three pie's I baked in order were:
1)  Salami, and BelGioioso Mozz (first time using block cheese).
2)  Pepperoni and BelGioioso Mozz (ripped larger cheese slices into smaller bits)
3)  Shredded Costco Cheese w/ half side capers (Note to self, never use capers on pizza again)
Jon

Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2011, 01:29:38 PM »
More pics
Jon

Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2011, 01:31:11 PM »
I also baked some french baguettes for the first time, RIP.
Jon

Offline jerrym

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2011, 04:56:08 AM »
PapJon,

much appreciate that oven pic 2 showing the stone and the tiles.

a few weeks ago out of interest i moved my "stone" down from the 1st shelf onto the metal base of the oven and got burnt pizza at 5 mins bake. worse still the top was not cooked.

i parked this setup at the time as not workable but now realize from your pic i have a chance by introducing the double stack. many thanks.

Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2011, 03:52:47 AM »
Hi Jerry,
Glad my pictures helped.  My oven is a nice 24 x 18" so a mix of 12x12 and 6x6 quarry tiles worked perfectly.  One thing that isn't obvious from the pictures is that the 6x6 tiles are thinner than the 12x12s.  While they are thicker than half the thickness of the 12x12s I wen went ahead and put two layers of 6x6 since I had purchased 2sq feet. 

I made some additional changes to the set up after I acquired some more scrap steel stakes (4pc).  Since the original rack was raised up in the back this meant the tiles were originally not level.  With the new set up they are now level as well as lower since I dropped the tiles down one level.  The new gap between the quarry tiles and cordierite stone is now 2.75"  (actually it's 3", but the stakes that are holding the quarry stones are 1/4" thick.  This will be interesting to bake in, since I'm not forgetting the additional 1/4" thick peel will mean my working space will be even narrower.
Jon


scott123

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2011, 08:48:00 PM »
Jon, we have members here who work with 2.5" vertical spaces, but I think it takes some practice to work in those kinds of quarters. If you can work with this comfortably, I think your top browning issues should be over.  You won't be able to do Neapolitan with your setup, but you'll be in good stead with all the other styles.

If that vertical space ends up being too cramped, I'd give another thought to putting the cordierite on kiln posts on the floor. The nice thing about kiln posts is that they make them in 1/4" increments so you can fine tune your vertical opening to your heart's content.

650 is a little too high with 1" cordierite and malted flour. I would go lower- 625, possibly even 600.

Would you happen to recall the bake times for these last set of pies?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 08:49:49 PM by scott123 »

Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2011, 03:22:14 PM »
Jon, we have members here who work with 2.5" vertical spaces, but I think it takes some practice to work in those kinds of quarters. If you can work with this comfortably, I think your top browning issues should be over.  You won't be able to do Neapolitan with your setup, but you'll be in good stead with all the other styles.
Scott, just to clarify you are referring to what appears to be my max temp right?

If that vertical space ends up being too cramped, I'd give another thought to putting the cordierite on kiln posts on the floor. The nice thing about kiln posts is that they make them in 1/4" increments so you can fine tune your vertical opening to your heart's content.
Yeah, that might be where I end up going.  That said, ignoring the ceiling (quarry tiles) and the gap between them and the cordierrite, how close do you think I can get the stone to the bottom of the oven and be ok?  The shortest kiln post I saw was 1/2".  My question stems down to shrinking the size of the oven in an oven as much as possible. If I'm able to go with very short kiln posts I could drop the quarry tile layer down another notch or two.


650 is a little too high with 1" cordierite and malted flour. I would go lower- 625, possibly even 600.

Would you happen to recall the bake times for these last set of pies?
Scott, you are hitting on what I've come to learn as being a difficult part of this set up.  What I am dealing with is an obviously inaccurate dial (550F = 650F and beyond), the thermal probe is located in the isolated upper region of the oven, and last but not least the nice thermal mass of the stone and tiles makes it difficult to accurately adjust the temp down to the desired range.  Thus part (not all,... definitely not all) of the contributing factor(s) behind my failed baguette attempt.
Jon

Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2011, 03:27:10 PM »
BTW, I got one of the flour samples today, and according to FedEx I will receive two more tomorrow.  Note the size...  :o  
Jon

scott123

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2011, 01:49:18 AM »
Scott, just to clarify you are referring to what appears to be my max temp right?

Jon, with the quarry tiles blocking the thermostat and your oven generally running a lot hotter than normal, I'm relatively certain, should you wish to take the risk, you could hit Neapolitan temps for the hearth.  With cordierite, that's probably around 750. But the ceiling, though... Neapolitan oven ceilings get very very hot and there's also a lot of heat coming off the burning wood to the side.  With the heat source on the bottom of the oven and the cordierite hearth in the way, I'd be surprised if your quarry tile ceiling hits the same temp as the hearth below.

I don't know, maybe you could crank the hearth to 750, bake the pie for about a minute and then, with a metal peel, lift it up a fraction of an inch and 'dome it' against the ceiling. I think that's a bit of a long shot, though.

Quote
That said, ignoring the ceiling (quarry tiles) and the gap between them and the cordierrite, how close do you think I can get the stone to the bottom of the oven and be ok?

I think that the closer you bring the hearth to the heat source the quicker it's going to pre-heat, which, in turn, might give you a larger discrepancy between the ceiling and the hearth.  You could, in theory, pre-heat the oven until the hearth is a bit above the target temp and then turn the oven off, allowing the heat to travel upward to the ceiling.

Quote
What I am dealing with is an obviously inaccurate dial (550F = 650F and beyond), the thermal probe is located in the isolated upper region of the oven, and last but not least the nice thermal mass of the stone and tiles makes it difficult to accurately adjust the temp down to the desired range.

Your oven was a bit wacky to begin with.  Now that you've block out the thermostat with the quarry tile ceiling, the thermostat is completely useless.  I think it's pretty safe to assume that when you turn your oven on, the bottom burner will stay on for a very long time.  You should be able, with some trial and error, to let the clock do the work for you.  Turn the oven on, wait 20 minutes and then take temps of the bottom of the hearth, top of the hearth, quarry tiles, as well as the oven ceiling. Try 30 minutes. 40 minutes. 50 minutes. You may need to turn the oven on for a while and then off for a bit, so the ceiling can draw some heat from the hearth. There will be a magical number of minutes of either oven on, off or both that gives you that perfect pizza baking temp.

Bear in mind that opening the door to take temperatures will allow heat to escape, so, if, say, you hit the target temp at 50 minutes after opening the door at 20, 30, and 40, you should probably try 40 minutes with the door shut the entire time.

Offline PapaJon

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2011, 02:02:03 AM »
Thanks for all the answers Scott.  I'm thinking I may unhook the probe (easily done) and see about poking it through a gap in the quarry tile ceiling.  The whole timing the oven thing might have worked for Varasano, but that might be a little too complicated for me.  I might resort to that in the end, but will make it a last resort if possible.  I've given my wife a bit of baking fever too and now she will be wanting to bake breads so hrm... I have some figuring out to do.
Jon

scott123

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2011, 02:07:49 AM »
BTW, I got one of the flour samples today, and according to FedEx I will receive two more tomorrow.  Note the size...  :o  

You can't beat free flour, but 150 lb. of unbromated 13.6%-14.2% protein GM flour... I don't know. It'll be a big step up from KABF, but I still have my hopes pinned on bouncer for the unbromated crown.  Go to the bakery department of your local supermarket and ask them for large covered plastic buckets.  They may have only one bucket lying around at a time- keep going back for more. The sooner you get the flour into air tight containers, the better.  As it is, you'll probably see an infestation before you'll be able to use it up. If you've got a big freezer (or know someone who does), that would help, even if you can just freeze it for a couple weeks to kill off any eggs.

Maybe you can find someone else from the forum who lives in your area and see if they'll purchase a bag- and then take that money and get some bouncer  ;D

scott123

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Re: How hot can a standard gas oven get?
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2011, 07:41:31 AM »
Thanks for all the answers Scott.  I'm thinking I may unhook the probe (easily done) and see about poking it through a gap in the quarry tile ceiling.  The whole timing the oven thing might have worked for Varasano, but that might be a little too complicated for me.  I might resort to that in the end, but will make it a last resort if possible.  I've given my wife a bit of baking fever too and now she will be wanting to bake breads so hrm... I have some figuring out to do.


Repositioning the probe might work, but I would still get into the habit of being trigger happy with the IR thermometer. I'm not proposing a fact finding mission, just narrowing in on the right amount of time to hit the target temp- you might be able to figure it out in a single bake. I can pre-heat my soapstone to 525 for one hour, come back, and the entire stone will be around 530.  I'll then turn on the broiler, and, once it's red hot, launch the pie.  Both the hearth and ceiling are at exactly the temps that I want them to be.  But that's an electric oven with a broiler element in the main chamber. With your setup, even with a repositioned probe, it's still going to take some hovering/trial and error to get it to perform exactly the way you want it to.