Author Topic: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch  (Read 3173 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« on: January 08, 2011, 09:59:03 AM »
My KA 600 died a violent gear death yesterday and I of course got nowhere with the KA rep who said that virtually all KA failures are the result of user error and that I should have followed the user manual that says I should cut the time in half from what recipes say    >:(

After researching this forum and a couple other places, it sounds like the Bosch Universal plus is a great machine and I'm thinking of going with that instead.  My only question is how well the Bosch works for other mixing tasks like cookie dough, cakes, whipping, etc?? 

I'd also like to know if anybody has the meat grinder and pasta attachments for the Bosch and how well they work.   I unfortunately spent a bunch of money for the pasta attachments and meat grinder for my KA which are now worthless.

I might go ahead and get my KA repaired (the service shop said between $75 and $100) and then try to sell it with the pasta attachments and meat grinder .

thanks


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6961
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 10:39:38 AM »
Bradtri, I'm a new Bosch user myself and haven't made cookie dough in it yet, just bread and pizza dough.  When I was researching the Bosch, I recall watching a video of a rep whipping up a meringue in a minute in the bosch compared to the KA.

This isn't the exact video but it shows whipping, mixing, and blending and should give you a good idea.  The video is down in the middle of the page.

http://www.nutritionlifestyles.com/bosch.htm

Good luck,
Chau

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 11:20:26 AM »
Chau,
   Thanks for the informative link.  I'll keep looking for one that shows the paddles for the cookie dough.

   From the videos, it always appears as if the bread dough is just spinning around the center shaft.  i.e. if you watch, you can see the same formation of dough remaining at the top of the ball.   Do you feel as if the entire ball of dough is being evenly kneaded?

thanks,
bp

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6961
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 11:56:18 AM »
Chau,
   Thanks for the informative link.  I'll keep looking for one that shows the paddles for the cookie dough.

   From the videos, it always appears as if the bread dough is just spinning around the center shaft.  i.e. if you watch, you can see the same formation of dough remaining at the top of the ball.   Do you feel as if the entire ball of dough is being evenly kneaded?

thanks,
bp


Bradtri, from my limited experience...how well the bosch (or any mixer) mixes dough really depends on the relative hydration of the dough.  YES, the bosch mixer will mix a dry dough compared to a wet dough much differently.   If mixing too dry of a dough, the dough gets pushed around and around and doesn't incorporate well.  Too wet and much of the dough seemingly stays on the center shaft.   Volume of dough also makes a difference.

I have found that around 400gm of dough is the minimal it will knead well.  The bosch can also handle fairly large batches well. 


I recently did a small batch test of about 400gm of dough in the bosch.  YOu can read about it here...
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11962.20.html

In this experiment, I added a bit of food color to the dough and watched to see how well it would be incorporated.  After 3 minutes of mixing a fairly wet dough, the food color dye seemed fairly well distributed giving me confidence that the bosch does a good job of mixing and incorporating. 

Having mixed a wide range of doughs varying in hydration ratios, flours, with and without oil, and a batch size of 400gm to 2000gm  I do feel that it does a good job of mixing and incorporating ingredients very well.   But this is the only mixer I have owned and have any real experience with so I can't compare it to others.  I have used a KA once and have also mixed dough extensively by hand and several times with a food processor. 

Chau
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 03:27:56 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3594
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 02:35:49 PM »
I like large batches as I cook for 10-15 many times 400 - 2200 grams of flour no problem for the Bosch. I bought the cookie paddle but have not used them on my Bosch.
I am with Jackie and others makes a great dough within  the right parameters.
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 09:45:23 AM »
Thanks for the replies, but I'm still curious to hear from folks about how well the Bosch Universal plus has worked for them in the kitchen when using it for purposes other than bread dough??  Any users out there with comments to share?

Also, one other option I'm giving consideration to is skipping a mixer (for bread dough) altogether.  My latest, favorite dough recipe follows the "no-knead" approach and does it's gluten development with a 3-day rise in the fridge.

Offline widespreadpizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1213
  • Location: NH
    • my beer store opening in june 2011
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2011, 01:42:37 PM »
bradtri,  I have had Bosch mixers for about 5 years now and i wouldn't get anything else.  The cookie paddles are a must when doing cookies,  you can bend your whisk style beaters with them.  The whisks themselves work amazingly well.  you can make whipped cream in a matter of seconds with them. I have the slicer shredder as well,  and that too does a great job.  I have never been at all disappointed with the mixer in any way.  I also think it is one of the best dough mixers out there. Hope this helps.  -marc

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3594
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2011, 03:35:16 PM »
I just used the food processor attachment for grating mozz for pizzas , then the slicer for another test I like that finished product then I grated the parm reggiano for topping all in about 3 minutes time!
love it!
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline dmcavanagh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1875
  • Location: Glenmont, NY
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2011, 04:43:01 PM »
Order a replacement gear and fix your KA yourself. They contain a plastic gear which is intended to break if overloaded, it protects the motor from burn out. Replacing the gear is not an overbearing job and I believe there are tutorials on line that show you how. A lot cheaper than replacing the machine.

Offline dmcavanagh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1875
  • Location: Glenmont, NY
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 05:10:09 PM »
google "fix a Kitchen Aid mixer"


Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 06:59:08 PM »
DM,
   Thanks for the info.   I had torn it enough apart to check out the gears, but there was so much grease that I couldn't tell the bad gear and I didn't want to tackle it that time and I didn't figure I'd be able to order the replacement gear.

But, I found the gordmans site.  Now, I just need to figure out if mine (600 series) has the plastic gear and see if it is the right one to order.

thanks!!!!!!

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 01:11:14 PM »
Got it torn apart again and the 600 series doesn't have a nylon sacrificial gear.  However, looks like the one that's toast is the "worm follower gear" and it can be had online for about $6.   Cost me more than that to go buy some retaining ring pliers!! 

But, I'm getting out of this pretty cheap.  I may just plan on fixing this mixer every couple years if this is all it takes.

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2011, 02:17:52 PM »
Okay, I need some help here.  I've clearly identified the gear to replace, but I'm having a heckuva time figuring out how to get it out.  I removed a retainer ring from the shaft that was at the top of the bevel gear.  That allows me to slide the bevel gear up about 1/8" before it hits the spot where the shaft gets incrementally larger. 

I also removed a retainer ring from the shaft below the mixer, but that doesn't seem to help anything.

I've been looking for some sort of key or pin that is holding the gear in place but can't see anything.   I attached a couple pics to this post.

Anybody have an idea of how to get the gear out??

From the replacement part: http://www.mendingshed.com/wormfollower.html  I'm not seeing anything

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 02:21:08 PM »
Here's the pics

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011, 02:23:12 PM »
One pic at a time, I guess:

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 03:23:26 PM »
Clean the grease out and you should see a pin in the gear collar. You may be able to push it out or you may need to use a punch to drive it out. Also the pin may be sheared off or bent. It will be similar to the pin in my K5SS seen here. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5241.0.html
   
     Villa Roma
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 03:44:31 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, 03:54:36 PM »
Villa,
   Thanks for the reply but mine turned out a bit different.  To make a long story short, the gear on mine does not have a collar with a pin through it.  There is a pin that the bevel gear slides down over and then the bevel gear and the worm following gear mate together.  You can see the shape of the worm follower gear on this link:  http://www.mendingshed.com/wormfollower.html

   I did much more disassembly than was needed since I ended up pulling the planetary assembly down off of the spline shaft on the bottom.  So, hopefully, I can get everything pressed back together. 

   Now, off to order the $6 gear from mendingshed.com since my local repair shop wanted $20 for the same part.

thanks again to all for your help,
bp

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 04:16:15 PM »
BP It sounds like you have the situation well in hand. The parts are cheap for these mixers and if you're willing to do a little work they will last a long time. I once timed the disassembly of my K5SS just for grins and it only took me 3 1/2 minutes.

You may also wish to consider using a synthetic food grade grease. I used Tri-Flow synthetic food grade grease. It does not smell or leak like the original grease. I got it off EBay.

   Good luck, Villa Roma
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 04:22:01 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline cranky

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 256
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2011, 05:55:47 PM »
Since the parts are so cheap and you have identified the weak link you might order two.  If it breaks again you can have it running in minutes.

Costco has the commercial KA mixers on sale for $250.  Never saw the expensive model in there before, but I just was there today.

Offline bradtri

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 136
Re: Yet another KA death ... questions on Bosch
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2011, 10:37:04 PM »
I thought about ordering several copies of the failed gear, but  I think I'll see how long this lasts.  I don't mind the idea of spending $6 and one hour to repair every couple years .... although I was salivating over the thought of buying the new Bosch ....

thanks again to everybody for their help.   

btw, while going through this, I tried a website called fixya.com, that charges a flat rate between $6 and $20 to have unlimited access to an "expert" until the problem was resolved.   I wasn't too impressed.  My expert seemed to just be doing Google searches and sending me links that I had already looked at.  After I questioned whether he really knew anything about my particular model of Kitchenaid, I came back after a few minutes and he had disconnected our session and wouldn't reconnect.   I'm probably still out the $20, but consider it a learning experience.  Not too sure I would recommend the website ...  not that they're dishonest, just that the people you get aren't necessarily experts and if they are stumped, probably aren't going to invest much time in trying to solve the problem.