Author Topic: Getting more 'Chew'  (Read 4791 times)

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Offline AnnieK

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 08:18:19 PM »
Okay! Results are in from round two, and it's exactly what I was looking for! Yippee! Nicely browning crust, good oven spring, perfect amount of chew and great foldability without drooping.

Thanks so much to both of you guys for all the wonderful help!

This test batch was baked at 525, so I still might play around with upping the temps more. But the outcome of the dough was just what I was hoping to achieve.



Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2011, 08:38:45 PM »
Anne,

That's great news. Can you post the final recipe that gave you such good results? That way, I can come up with the corresponding dough formulation with the baker's percents.

Peter

Offline AnnieK

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2011, 11:51:07 AM »
Hi Peter-

Certainly; it is:

14.5 qt water
.22 lb yeast (I may bump this up to .24 if I feel it needs a bit more rise, but the last batch this amount seemed to work)
.40 lb Sugar
.80 lb Salt
.10 lb Garlic
1 lb Olive Oil
50 lb Flour

Cheers,

Offline scott123

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2011, 11:53:45 AM »
Sounds good, Anne, I'm glad everything worked out for you.

I'm curious, what was the bake time?

Offline AnnieK

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2011, 11:57:08 AM »
Hi Scott-

I didn't time it yet, I was making our daily house pies and had other pies going in and out of the ovens. Today I was going to both time it at 525, and maybe try one at 550 just for curiosities sake.

I'll post that up though!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2011, 03:15:24 PM »
14.5 qt water
.22 lb yeast (I may bump this up to .24 if I feel it needs a bit more rise, but the last batch this amount seemed to work)
.40 lb Sugar
.80 lb Salt
.10 lb Garlic
1 lb Olive Oil
50 lb Flour


Anne,

Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and tweaking the tool a bit to squeeze in the garlic powder, this is what your latest dough formulation looks like:

All Trumps Flour (100%):
Water (58.9063%):
CY (0.44%):
Salt (1.6%):
Olive Oil (2%):
Sugar (0.80%):
Garlic Powder (0.20%):
Total (163.9463%):
22679.99 g  |  800 oz | 50 lbs
13359.94 g  |  471.25 oz | 29.45 lbs
99.79 g | 3.52 oz | 0.22 lbs |
362.88 g | 12.8 oz | 0.8 lbs | 21.67 tbsp | 1.35 cups
453.6 g | 16 oz | 1 lbs | 33.6 tbsp | 2.1 cups
181.44 g | 6.4 oz | 0.4 lbs | 15.17 tbsp | 0.95 cups
45.36 g | 1.6 oz | 0.1 lbs | 17 tsp | 5.67 tbsp
37183.01 g | 1311.57 oz | 81.97 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Corresponding thickness factor for an 18" pizza = 22/(3.14159 x 9 x 9) = 0.08646

Peter

 

Offline scott123

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2011, 04:07:16 PM »
Today I was going to both time it at 525, and maybe try one at 550 just for curiosities sake.

I know I'm curious  ;D I'm looking forward to hearing the results.

Offline AnnieK

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2011, 07:00:03 PM »
Hi-

So I spent a couple of days playing around with the oven temps, first at 525, and then at 550. 525 brought the bake time to 6 minutes exactly, still a little long. 550 brings it to about 5:15 (for plain cheese, no toppings). The crust has been great at this temp, so I am going to try to work with this for this for awhile.

I've had to keep the bottom oven at 500 tho for those pesky strombolis and calzones. But upping the top oven does seem to speed things up a bit.

Cheers

Offline scott123

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2011, 07:31:33 PM »
Annie, sounds good. 5:15 is a very respectable bake time.  How's the browning at 5:15? Are you noticing a little more splotchiness? As previously discussed, if you are getting less even browning, you can compensate with a little more sugar.

How's the bottom of the crust looking? Any char?

Is the pizza noticeably different than it's previous incarnation?  How's the feedback from your customers?

You had mentioned before that you had busy and slow times.  During one of the slow times, try 575.  I don't think it will necessarily be what your customers want, but, I recommend trying it just for yourself. Anyone that is really into pizza should taste a 4ish minute plain cheese pie at least once.

Offline AnnieK

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2011, 10:18:12 AM »
Hi Scott-
The browning has been fantastic actually, and yes I have had some char.

Which on that note; what I need is for you east coasters to hand everyone west of you all a primer on char, 'char 101'. I can't tell you how many times I have remade 'Burnt' pizzas for people, and our char isn't even that extreme. I'm trying to balance that out with the higher oven temps, as I've run into this a few times just this week. We don't use screens, nor plan to. Oh well, I suppose we eventually got a lot of people to try our 'green' pizza (pesto) and that's worked out for the best, maybe we can lead them to char at some point.....

Just yesterday one of our customers came up to me and said "I'm not sure what was different but the pizza I had the other night was the best one I have ever had" So I think the new dough is going over well! All feedback has been positive.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2011, 11:40:37 AM »
Annie,

I normally don't try to push salt on to anyone, and people have different tolerances to salt, but you might try going to about 1.75% salt. That would be a simple experiment to run.

Peter

Offline scott123

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2011, 02:00:14 PM »
Annie, you are not alone in your feelings about char.  Nationally recognized pizza obsessive Brian Spangler of Apizza Scholls in Portland posted this to the forum a couple weeks ago:

Nobody likes char anymore. What the hell happened in the pizza world? I grew up with pizzas that had a nice char and now we have to beg for it? Even if I ask another pizzeria to bake "extra crispy/dark" it is lighter than the pizzas that I make. I know some of you like the GBD (golden, brown, delicious) pizza, but I find them lacking on many levels.

Me, I'm neutral when it comes to char.  I can kind of understand where charheads are coming from, while I can also see the other side's perspective.  Humans are basically hardwired from birth to have an aversion to charred foods.  This propensity played an essential role in our evolution.  Char is an acquired taste, whether it be the charred coffee beans in expresso, the charred oak barrels in single malt or the charred crust in high temp pizza, and, just like people that love expresso and scotch have a hard time understanding people that don't, I think that charred pizza haters have a certain stigma as well. It's a little bit bit like rare steak loving chefs  heaping judgment on well done steak loving customers. It's like "how dare you prefer well done meat?!"  There's nothing intrinsically superior about a charred slice of pizza than an uncharred one.  I enjoy the occasional char on my slice, but when people complain about char, I'm not quick to judge. Different strokes for different folks.

Golden, brown and delicious (GBD) is another matter. That I don't have a lot of respect for.  I've talked about this with Peter a bit- traditional NY style is neither charred nor GBD.  It's puffy chewy and relatively white/pale with kind of an ashy almost charred undercrust. That's what I grew up eating and that's what sends my heart soaring. Over the years, in the NY area, baking temps have decreased and baking times have increased, resulting in an alarming trend towards GBD (and breadier) pizzas. It's basically pizza gentrification and it pisses me off to no end.

I know that you were (are?) putting out a pretty GBD product, and, being in CO, I don't judge you in the slightest, but for respectable mom and pop operations in the NY area to go GBD, that's just plain unforgivable.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 04:07:44 PM by scott123 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2011, 01:53:24 PM »
AnnieK, who started this thread, is featured with her Hot Tomato Cafe, at page 16 of the recent edition of Pizza Today at http://www.pizzatoday.com/imags/piz1105/pageflip.html.

Peter

Offline AnnieK

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Re: Getting more 'Chew'
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2011, 10:44:43 PM »
Thanks for that link Peter!


 

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