Author Topic: creating my staters first time  (Read 5910 times)

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Pizza01

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creating my staters first time
« on: January 24, 2011, 05:17:11 PM »
i want to start using starter after knowing that there is such a thing.

according to this      http://www.io.com/~sjohn/sour.htm

today its the third day.
but there is no recipe which i dont mix my self with the amount, the recipe said (a) to pour half(b) add half cup water and half flour and... i poured half and add 1 cup water+1 cup flour and today the same.
should i start all over? or is it ok?
first day i poured cup of ap flour and cup of mineral water room temp into plastic jar.
after 24 hour threw half of it and poured into the jar another cup flour and cup water
third day(today) again threw half, poured cup flour and cup water and blend.
today i saw changes theres bubbles and the smell like beer
heres picture from day1,2,3
i am new to this so i need any help and advise i can get.
room temp as between 18cl at night to 20cl at daytime
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 05:23:51 PM by msheetrit »


parallei

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 11:06:59 PM »
michael,

I'm no expert, so hopefully others will have something to add.  It sure looks like something is going on!  When I started my culture, I did the following when i feed it (every 12 hours):

- Discard all but one cup

- Feed it 3/4 cup water and 1 cup flour (a bit thicker than yours)

You might find it easier to see how much it is growing in a tall glass container.  I use a Mason Jar. These are used for canning (see photo).  I like them because you can see what is going on.

You said it smelled like beer so I guess it smells pretty good!?  I'd just keep feeding it until it gets fully active.

Paul

 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 11:51:09 PM »
Michael it looks good.  Keep feeding it every 12h and then every 6 hours as it becomes more active.  Once it becomes very bubbly you can discard half and feed 50/50 flour and water.  You don't have to use a full cup or even half cup per feeding, but just keep the water and flour weight the same.  I feed with less to avoid wasting flour, but flour is cheap.   As it becomes active sooner, you can discard and feed more often.   The starter is ready to use when it becomes active within 2 hours of feeding.  That is it gets nice and bubbly and rises about 2" or so in your container.  You can also check for readiness by putting a little in water.  If it floats, it's ready to be used.  From the looks of it, your starter should be ready in the next 2-3 days. 

There are many ways of activating, using, and maintaining a starter.  Like Parallei and other members, I like to keep my starters in jars.   After I use the active starter for making bread/pizza, I'll typically dump out excess starter keeping about 1/4 of jar's worth.   I add about 50gm of water, then 50gm of AP flour and stir.  Then into the fridge right away.  I'll usually use it again within 2-3 days.   About 2-3 hours before I want to use it, I take it out and place it on the counter at room temps.  It will have risen a bit in the fridge, but will get nice and bubbly again within 3 hours or so.   Once it passes the float test I use it.   If it doesn't, then give it more time. 

Again, this is only the method I use but there are many others out there.  In no time, you will develop your own method that fits your schedule.   

Let me know if any of that makes sense or if you have other questions.

Chau

Offline chickenparm

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 11:52:55 PM »
Hope it works out for ya! I have done alot of reading but not ready to try one yet for myself.I do  not feel confident yet.
 :-D

I'm sure the other folks here will be able to help you with this process.Keep us posted!
 :)
-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 11:54:21 PM »
Chau,you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge!
You are always a great asset to this forum!
 :chef:
-Bill

Pizza01

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2011, 02:09:42 PM »
thank you for all the reply guys.

feeding every 12h, when it bacome more active 6 hours, then 2 hours, when its bubbly discard half and feed 50/50 and from here i lost you chau.
i realy lost it here  :-\ 


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 02:48:56 PM »
Thanks Bill,  to be honest, I know a little about a lot of things.  My knowledge is rather superficial and not that deep.  It's more or less anecdotal.  :D

Michael, once your starter becomes active within 2-3 hours of feeding it is about ready to use.  To ensure that it's active enough, take a small piece and place it into a bowl of water.  If it floats, then it is ready.  If it sinks then give it more time.   If you don't use the starter and it overferments, then it will collapse and sink as well, so there is a window of usability here.

After you use what you need you will need to discard about 75% of it.  Re-feed it with 50/50 water/flour.  The amount of water and flour to use depends on how much you used earlier.  Typically I will ad 50gm of each so I end up with more than 100gm of starter in my jar as I only use less than 100gm of starter at any given time. 

Now place the newly feed starter into the fridge.  This will slow down it's activity until the next time you use it.  If you use it within the next 2-3 days, then just take it out and leave it on the counter.  It will become active again in 2-3 hours.  Repeat the float test before using.   Since it takes about 2-3 hours at room temps to become active (after coming out of the fridge), you want to plan on taking it out of the fridge 2-3 hours before using.  it's just like preheating the oven, you have to do a little planning ahead. 

Let's pretend you only want to use the starer every 3 weeks or so.  Once a week, you should take the starter out of the fridge, let it become active, discard half or so, re-feed, and back into the fridge. 

Hope that helps.

Chau
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 02:51:27 PM by Jackie Tran »

Pizza01

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 04:04:13 PM »
yes it does help very much, today the starter looks diferent from yesterday the liquids are flowting on top of it...
so if i understand it correctly as it become more active after feeding every 12h to feed every 6 hours and when it started to be bubbly to feed every 2-3 hours the it supposed  to activate..? right?... and then to test it... then i should do the test and if its ready discard half, feed it and to put onto the fridge and thats for activate...

when i plan to use to take out 2-3 hour ahead until it reach room temp and activate, to do the test, if its ready and flowting- i can use it.
feed and into the fridge?

i got this right?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 05:09:08 PM »
Michael, so I don't keep repeating the same things, can you post a picture of your starter now.  How long ago did you feed it and how long it has taken to get bubbly since the last feeding.

Chau

Pizza01

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 05:27:44 PM »
thats just what i have been planed to do.
but the window you have mentioned the window...
i think i should have feed them before, the look like they are dead or somthing, nothing happens there now
the last time i fed them was 24 hours ago.
should i throw them and make new ones starting with 12 hours feeding.
the recipe that writen in the link that i have been posting in the begining of the thread confused me.
i started with cup water and cup flour and after 24 hours i discarded half and fed with another cup f+cup w
and again.
today its the forth day and this is how it look like.
i think i should make new one with your recipe because the amount was wrong also when i think about it, cup flour and cup water are not even by weight so it wrong to begin with.
this is the photo of today
befor feeding  ???


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 06:13:38 PM »
Don't panic Michael.  The few starters I've started from scratch take around 6-7 days to start.   I would pour the hooch (liquid) out and half of what you have out, then feed it with a couple of tablespoons of flour and same amount of water.  Keep it at 75-80F, somewhere warm and covered.   Every 12 hours, stir in a few tablespoons of flour and water, cover and return to it's warm spot.  Don't worry about discarding excess starter at this point. 

You should see activity in the next day or 2, then you can up the feeding to every 6 hours.  I have read that these starters can fail 40% of the time, so don't fret.  If it fails you can start over, but it can take 7+ days to get a starter so just keep at it. 

If you start over and make a new starter, you may want to consider adding 1/2 tsp of lemon juice or pineapple juice to your starter. 

Here's a thread that I started awhile back about reacivating a dry starter.  It's not the same as what you are doing but very similar.  There is discussion in this thread for the use of lemon or pineapple juice.  I do use it but it's not absolutely necessary.  It just increases your odds of a successful starter.
It prevents the growth of leuconostoc bacteria.   Norma posted several links to threads (in reply #9)which are also good to read.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10753.0.html

Chau

Offline StrayBullet

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 07:08:33 PM »
Hope it works out for ya! I have done alot of reading but not ready to try one yet for myself.I do  not feel confident yet.
 :-D

I'm sure the other folks here will be able to help you with this process.Keep us posted!
 :)


Trust me, I was in the same boat...at some point, you just have to try so you can see and smell things for yourself.

I was in the exact same position not but a few months ago and I now have 3 different starters in the fridge :D

Mark

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2011, 07:15:37 PM »
They are addicting aren't they?  I had up to 5 at one time but now back to 3.  I hope to be down to 2 or 1 soon.   Mark have you taken the next step towards tasting the raw starter?


Offline StrayBullet

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2011, 07:34:24 PM »
LOL :D

I've not yet tasted the raw stuff :D

I've had my nose WAY down in there but never tasted it....I can definitely smell and see a difference in the way each of them behaves, kinda neat actually.

Mark

Pizza01

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2011, 11:03:44 AM »
chau today after 12 hour my wife yes my wife did it for me because i was at work, she poured the hooch and fed it with tbs flour and tbs water. now there is no change. i will continue doing as you wrote and update.
about tasting i am preaty sure that at this point if i taste i could end up in hospital  :-D

parallei i brought a jar similar to yours, first it started to smell beery then it bacame smelly.

chickenparm i think you should starte making one, i dont know anything about it also but i have to start from somwere. and i think you should too. thats the way to learn, bring jar and start.
we will learn together.

 




Pizza01

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2011, 02:15:07 PM »
this was today after 16 hours of feeding, i know it should be 12 but i was at work and my couldent feed it before ( the baby kept her a wake all night you know)
i hope it doesent ruin my starters.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2011, 02:50:02 PM »
Just keep feeding it a couple of tablespoons of flour and water every 12 hours until you see activity.  Once that happens, start feeding it every 6 hours or so.  It will get more active each time.   Just be patient.  Sometimes these starters can take 7-10 days to become active starters.   What temperature are you keeping it at.  If the temp is warmer, the whole process will occur faster.   I like to use a temp of 85-90F.   

In a video on the breadtopia website, Eric says that up to 40% of these starters can fail.  If this one fails, then just start another one and it should be fine.   If you decide to remake the starter, I would consider adding a bit of lemon or pineapple juice to the mixture.  I've had good luck with that technique. 

Keep us posted,
Chau

Pizza01

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2011, 04:11:26 PM »
i am keeping it in about 20-22 cl, there is no warmer temp in my house this time of year.

Pizza01

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2011, 04:45:33 PM »
so i poured the hooch, discard half and added water and flour 1 tbs and half from each one.

and i couldent waut chau and started another one, puted 2 tbs flour and same amount water.

and juice squeezed from fresh lemon.

so now i have 2

the left one on photo num 2 is the ones i started today with the lemon juice.

parallei  as you can see i have taken your advise and puting them in jar that can see through

i want to thank member forum old criter who also helps me by sending pm that helps very much understanding starters, and how to use them when they will be ready to use.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 04:59:20 PM by msheetrit »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: creating my staters first time
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2011, 05:08:37 PM »
Michael, I'm about as impatient as you are.  Whenever I am cold fermenting dough I have to check it and intently stare at it everyday studying the changes.   When I bake bread, the first 15min of the bake is the hardest for me.  I can't wait to lift the lid to see how much the loaf has expanded.   :-D  And then I'm sitting in front of the oven almost the whole time the bread bakes.  Well I do take short breaks and check the forum.  :-D

You are doing fine with the starters.  In no time at all you will have starter coming out of your ears!  :P The waiting period is the hardest and sometimes these things do fail, especially on the first try for some reason.  My first starter also never made it but I didn't use the lemon juice.  The 3 starters I made after that with juice all made it. 

Good luck,
Chau


 

pizzapan