Latest NY style pies

[abilak]

These are on the thin side, so be careful if you use recipe.
Stretched to 18" and dough made in Kitchen-Aid Mixer

500g All Trumps Bromated Bleached Flour
260g Filtered Water
3g Fleischmann's IDY
1TBS Oil
16g Kosher Salt
4g Fine Garlic Powder
4g Onion Powder

Add water to mixer
Add salt, mix manually
Add half flour on speed 1
Add IDY yeast then Add half of remaining flour
Add oil then Add rest of flour
Turn on speed 2 for 4 to 5 mins... stop before it starts to tear...
Take dough out and divide in half, toss both in oil

I like to let one rise at room temp (70-75) from 7:30am to 6pm then cook that night. I'll put the other one in a aluminum retardation pan and throw it in the frig right after the dough is made. That dough will keep for about 5 days. 2-3 seems to be the best time. If you get "blow-outs" just reduce the amount of yeast you use. My yeast is from 2009 and may be a little weak.

I crank two of these out a week and cook at 550 on an 18" stone. I use 7.5-8oz of Grande 100% mozz. Every know and then I'll grate some romano or parm into the mix. I also use 7/11 tomatoes, about 3 large scoops, and basil, oregano, salt, and pepper to taste once the sauce is on.

[BrickStoneOven]

Welcome back man the pizza looks great as usual.

[abilak]

Thanks man, been busy...
Working my regular full-time job while working on my MBA at night... About half-way done now...
Been in the IT/Telecom game, on the technical side, for 15 years... Trying to make some more $green$ somehow...
However, nothing is going to stand in the way of pizza making!

[Meatballs]

Nice looking pie.  Aren't you worried about the garlic and onion powders over-relaxing or softening the dough?  They can have an enzymatic activity on gluten.  I've seen suggestions that fresh be used and cut rather coarsely to reduce dough interaction.  (if needed I can supply a citation)

Ron

[abilak]

Nope. At times I don't add them because I forget, and the dough comes out the same...
Perhaps the bromated dough that is bleached likes onion and garlic powder... ha ha...
Seriously, I have used KASL, and the "better for bread" flour with G/O powder and have not noticed any difference either...
Maybe things change when you exceed the 1.5% range... Have you personally had an issue with using it?

[Ev]

I also sometimes use garlic and onion powders in my dough. I use KASL almost exclusively and have never had any adverse effects. Generally, I use a level tablespoon of each per 4 ball batch, with each ball @570g.
Personally, I think it adds a nice little "something extra" to the dough.

Good looking pie there, BTW!

[Meatballs]

I've never used them as I'm a total purist when it comes to crust, just the most minimal ingredients.  At most I'll put a little garlic salt on the edge just before baking.  I've seen several references to garlic and onion powder as potential problematic agents recently and was wondering if you have experienced any problems.  I know some of the chains use garlic/onion in the dough but they have scientists doing their formulation.   Sometimes I can over-think an issue.

Ron

[abilak]

Either that or I am a scientist... LOL

[Ev]

I can certainly appreciate the purist approach but there's nothing wrong with experimenting just to see what happens. That's what makes it fun IMO. You may find something you like which adds variety, and you can always go back to your purist origins.

[abilak]

Yup... I was looking for that extra "something" -- that's when I started experimenting with the powders... I have also combined some oregano and basil into the dough a few times... The Wife seems to like it (and some family members), but it doesn't do a whole lot for me.
Off topic, but try about 4-5 shakes of teriyaki sauce when you make taco meat... I started doing that recently and didn't tell my Wife... She has commented that the last few times it has come out outstanding... Just passing on something else to try...

[Jackie Tran]

If Trader Joe's can sell an herb dough, I think you're fine.     If you notice it overly softening the dough, there are other adjustments that can be made.  I agree, this is the fun of making pizza.   And besides, just what is the purist approach away?   Who decides what is wrong/right, proper and not?  There's absolutely nothing wrong with sprinkling garlic salt on a crust but IMO it isn't typical for NY pizza, so that practice is likely a deviation from NY standards, ie not purist. 

When I have tried adding garlic powder to the dough, I found that I enjoyed the taste of it more if I sprinkled it on the crust, but that is just my particular taste. 

For that little somthing extra, you might try King Arthur's Pizza dough flavor.  For those who haven't tried it, it is a mix of dry cheese, garlic, and other natural flavors that is added to the dough.  It has been discussed on the forum several times so a search may turn up some old threads. 

Chau

[Pete-zza]

Andy and Tom,

Too much of either garlic powder or onion powder can lead to unwanted dough softening problems. The question is how much is too much? And, on that score, there seems to be no clear cut answer from what I have read on the subject. The subject did come up recently, however, when one of our members, a pizza operator in Colorado, decided to increase the amount of garlic powder she had been using in her dough. She also made other changes that made it difficult to determine whether the dough softness she got with the increased amount of garlic powder was due to the garlic powder or something else she did. You can read about her case at Reply 15 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12810.msg124110.html#msg124110, where I advised her to go back to the original amount of garlic powder she used. That post contains links to other posts I have entered on the subject, including several other links on the subject. Andy may even recall where I commented on this subject in one of the threads in which he posted, at Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9698.msg85561.html#msg85561.

From my reading, using garlic and/or onion powder in or on a dough is fairly common in a commercial environment, for pretty much all styles. I view such use as just another flavor option. The key is finding where the cutoff point is in a given dough formulation so that the garlic and/or onion powder do not overly soften the dough.

Peter

[Meatballs]

I'm not saying it wouldn't be good, I love garlic/onion.  It's just that around here you can get a good pizza in only one place, which is tough for a transplanted Philly Boy. I'm just trying to keep myself in good pizza, which is to me, a very specific thing.  I've spent the last 20 or more years learning to make the things I can't get here, Homemade italian sausage, capacolla, fresh pasta, mortadella, steak sandwiches with homemade Amoroso style rolls, calzones (a work in progress) and the list goes on.  As for pizza, I can get nationalized product, but for the real thing I go to Richie B's or make it myself.  Its enough of a challenge to make a simple, authentic (to me), pizza that I don't do too much experimenting unless its for a friend who likes a specific style or type (like Hawaiian).

I don't look down on experimentation or non-standard ingredients its just that I'm working on a particular style important to me.  I was wondering if what I had read about garlic and onion powder was true, see Pizza Today, December 2009 on page 27.  As for herbs, they are discussed in the same article and pose no problems, just onion and garlic.  Additionally, I'm Neapolitan-American, like my favorite pizza style, funny how that works. Next is my peoples pie, real Neapolitan pizza, but I'll have to experiment to get around the 900 deg. F thing.  

Oh, yea, I make good meatballs the family way, too.

Ron

[Ev]

Hey Ron,
 Where's "around here"? I'm a transplanted Neapolitan-American Philly boy myself. Luckily, I didn't land too far from home; just a couple of counties over.
 Care to share your meatball recipe? I love a good Italian meatball!

[abilak]

Still doing about 2 pies a week on average.
Here is one done with 4g yeast, and about 5g of onion powder only.
Reference recipe at top of thread, everything else is the same.

I have done a couple now with the whole peeled san marzano tomatoes from the local grocery store (Publix). I have been using Stanislaus 7/11's for a LONG time and wanted to try something different. I just pulsed the whole tomatoes in the blender a few times, then used them on the pie. Definitely very very tasty.

[chickenparm]

Excellent work! Looks very tasty!
 

[hammettjr]

Excellent work! Looks very tasty!

Agreed, very nice work!

I think I’ve been inspired to redo my recipe for next weekend and add some garlic and onion powders.  (This is something I’ve thought about before as it may help me gain flavor without salt.)

After reading Peter’s links above I’m a bit puzzled by the recipe at the start of this thread. It has 4 grams of each, onion and garlic powder, with 500 grams of flour. That is 0.8% of each, which is well above the 0.15% and 0.25% highlighted by Peter as amounts stated by Lehmann. While these numbers were not necessarily meant to be an upper limit, in the other thread referenced by Peter, an issue with the dough was potentially related to increasing the garlic powder to 0.24%. In any case, if I do add some seasoning to my dough, I’ll start with a very small amount and see how it goes.

Matt

[abilak]

Matt -- I've used 4g total, 4g of each for 8g total, no powder at all, the overall difference is negligible... There is a hint of taste when used, but nothing overwhelming. I use this recipe almost twice a week with 0 issues. I can even toss the pie in the air without tearing or any problems.