Author Topic: All about flour  (Read 2114 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline doughboy55

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 92
All about flour
« on: February 01, 2011, 03:15:23 PM »
What are your preferences for All purpose flour and High Gluten flour? I am currently using KAAP flour and am looking for a good high gluten flour.


Offline Braised

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2
Re: All about flour
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2011, 03:23:57 PM »
Doughboy - I've returned to using the KA Bread Flour, both the organic in the small bag and the "regular" in the 5# bag.  I find that a 30-60 minute autolyse period is essential to making the gluten work.  Previously to discovering this method of allowing the amylases and other enzymes to denature or otherwise work the gluten, I would try and do it mechanically by a long kneading time but never found a satisfactory result.  Using a wetter dough also helps and a long cold fermentation probably assists the chemistry as well. 

This forum is a genius place for receiving tips on small tweaks to recipes that make a material difference to the outcome.

B

Offline Meatballs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 196
Re: All about flour
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2011, 04:58:40 PM »
I've been using the bromated and bleached bread flour from Sams (Bakers and Chefs) because my wife keeps it around for her artesian breads and likes it.  She keeps a 50 lb sack so its easy to tap off of it.  I add 0.75% gluten to bring it into 13.8% protein (it's 13.3% protein on its own) and Lehmann recommds 13.5 to 14% or so protein.  I know about the controversy about bromated flour and bleaching but, you know, for the price I really don't feel that it affects MY pizza uses (New York Style) adversley.  If you could taste some of her breads you would wonder about the controversy also (the woman can make a duplicate Amoroso roll, because I asked her to, how nice).

For All Purpose we keep a 25lb sack of the Sams (Bakers and Chefs) and use it to adjust protein or for low protein uses.  Sams pretty much charges commodoty prices on the flour as the price fluctuates frequently. 

Yes, we do a lot of baking in our house and rarely buy bread, I do pizza and pastry and the wife does all of the breads.

Oh, Yes, we keep White Lilly AP (really low protein) and Lard for the perfect southern biscuit.

Mangiare,

Ron
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 05:01:38 PM by Meatballs »

Online c0mpl3x

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1127
  • Age: 28
  • Location: north of pittsburgh PA
  • crumb bubbles!
Re: All about flour
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2011, 06:33:12 PM »
i was using walmart AP and BRM VWG mixed to 16.9%, my favorite flour until i ran out of VWG  :P
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22318
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: All about flour
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2011, 06:55:09 PM »
I add 0.75% gluten to bring it into 13.8% protein (it's 13.3% protein on its own) and Lehmann recommds 13.5 to 14% or so protein. 

Ron,

You might want to take note of the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ that allows one to calculate how much vital wheat gluten to add to a particular flour to raise its protein content.

Peter

Offline Meatballs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 196
Re: All about flour
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 08:49:27 PM »
Pete,

I found the link, but its a bit confusing to me.  I was using a calculation I found based on: for every 1 percent of gluten added, protein is increased by 0.6%. So 0.75% gluten would raise protein by 0.45%(or 13.3% to 13.75% rounded to 13.8%.)  The calculator in your link seems to indicate a similar calculation type but I don't understand the inputs and can't seem to get an answer from it.  Can you elaborate, I'm feeling klinda dumb right now.


Thanks,

Ron

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22318
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: All about flour
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2011, 08:59:06 PM »
Ron,

I used to use the same approach as you described until member November, who designed the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator and made it available to the forum, told me that that approach was not accurate. He even questioned where the 0.6% figure came from. I tried to find the answer from Tom Lehmann, who recommends the same approach as you used, and I could not get a good answer.

Can you tell me what brand of vital wheat gluten you are using? If it is one of the major brands set forth in the pull-down menu of the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator, I think I can walk you through the process. The other input that I would need is the weight of the Sam's base flour you are using in one of your recipes.

Peter

Offline doughboy55

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 92
Re: All about flour
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2011, 08:59:28 PM »
Hey Peter what %P high gluten flour should i be looking for?

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22318
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: All about flour
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2011, 09:02:41 PM »
Matt,

Most high-gluten flours run around 14-14.2% protein. That would be the range I would shoot for.

Peter

Offline Meatballs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 196
Re: All about flour
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2011, 09:09:59 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for the reply,  Right now I have a vital I bought bulk at an organic market (way below Hodgson Mill prices) but I usually keep Hodgson Mills (or so says my wife and they're her toys.)  So any brand would be ok with me for education purposes.  I figured the o.6% was gospel, personally, I don't argue with Tom Lehmann  :) but recognize there could be a better way. 

Ron


Offline Meatballs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 196
Re: All about flour
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2011, 09:12:48 PM »
oh, weight of flour, the base recipe is 520 grams and 60% hydration.

Ron

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22318
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: All about flour
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2011, 09:45:43 PM »
Ron,

To show you how the tool works, let us assume that you want to increase the protein content of your Sam's flour from 13.3% to 13.8%, using the Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten. Since the Sam's flour is not in the top pull-down menu, I enter 13.3% in the box below the top pull-down menu. Then I select the Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten in the lower pull-down menu. Next, I enter the weight of the Sam's flour, 520 grams, in the Mass box and 13.8% in the box right below that. I then click on the background, and the number 515.122 (grams of Sam's flour) shows up in the MassA box and the number 4.878 (grams of Hodgson Mills vital wheat gluten) shows up in the MassB box. If you add those two numbers together, they equal 520 grams. As it turns out, 4.878 grams (0.1721 ounces) of the Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten comes to about 1 5/8 teaspoons.

Peter

Offline Meatballs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 196
Re: All about flour
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2011, 10:25:53 PM »
Pete,

Thanks for the tutorial.  I realize now, after you showed me how to work it, that its a calculation I used to use in preparing in pharmaceutical intravenous fluids.  I was ignoring the total weight after adding the vital.  I can't remember the actual mathematics I was taught 36 years ago and used back then but the concept was that you wanted a final solution of a particular volume and percentage strength after adding another solution containing a different concentration.  since the mass of the vital was trivial I wasn't counting it into the total mass.

The amount, mass, of vital, however, came out the same as my % calculation with the 0.6% factor for King Arthur vital, but my total flower/vital was now the correct 520 grams, at this size batch, the change is trivial but if making 50lbs...the induced error could be disastrous as the hydration would be way off as the gluten takes extra water.  Thanks for the education...especially the revelation I made by trying different vitals, they can differ quite dramatically.  I'll be sure to get a dig in on the wifey about her unknown % vital, even if it is organic.  She doesn't weigh things like I do and just tosses and knows how much to use to get the effect she wants, don't you get annoyed with people like that?

Thank You

Ron


 

pizzapan