Author Topic: oven help for beginner  (Read 3356 times)

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Offline sibard

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oven help for beginner
« on: April 29, 2005, 08:18:46 AM »
ok ive been snooping around the site for awhile now and i have found a wealth of information and its really good to see people sharing so much. However my problem is that i am just a home based pizza maker, who wants to practice and perfect a good formula for making a killa pizza. Now the kind of pizza im after is a Neopolitan, oh and versano you go pal, thats a cracking pie. Now obviously at home i dont have the proper oven and i can only reach about 300c, so my main concern is can i still make a good crust and is it only the time that is lengthened or what?

many thanks

si


Offline bortz

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2005, 08:59:43 AM »
Welcome aboard Sibard.  Without getting into a long drawn out reply.  The answer is yes you can make great crusts at home using a conventional kitchen oven.  I think most oves go up to around 500 degrees and that's the area you want to be in when you bake.  Also, try using a pizza stone for a better quality crust.  A stone is kind of like a crutch for those without access to a pro pizza oven. Not that that's a bad thing:)
You can compensate for lower oven temps. by using longer bake times but the quality just isn't the same as a higher temp crust. 
The next thing is a killer crust recipe.  Scout around the site. There are some good ones here. Good luck!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 09:02:03 AM by bortz »

Offline varasano

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2005, 10:13:55 AM »
Thanks si,

regarding the temp, you can make a good pie at a lower temp, but not really a neopolitan one. At least, I haven't seen any photos of one that really convinced me...

Don't mean to be a downer, but that's kind of requirement.  Some people, like pftaylor do it outdoords using a grill with a little tweaking.  do you have access to that kind of setup?

Jeff

Offline sibard

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2005, 10:48:19 PM »
neopolitan is the name of the game, well, at least for me anyway. This is why im a little worried before i start my project. You see I am comortable spending lots of time trying to conqure a good receipe and a good overall formula for baking the almighty, but i guess i dont want to waste all my time and effort. 

cos i live in the uk, an outdoor oven is out the question...  The damn oven is the only thing stopping me. After a countless amount of phone calls being passed from pillar to post I have managed to source out all stockist for appropriate ingredients ect....but no damn oven

can anyone reccomend an oven for what im trying to do. Baking 1 pie at a time is fine im just going to be using it as a lab tool really. Not planning on feeding a big family or openin an eatery just wanna learn how to make a top notch pie. With that in mind id like to point out hat im not after some idiot proof oven for beginner id want something that is simply cheaper because of its size. Thats even if such a thing exists...lol

I guess the only other option is to start workin somewhere that has an existing oven and then just tossing my crusts in at lunch time...lol

any help on this one would be much appreciated

thanks again,

si

Offline scott r

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2005, 03:35:41 AM »
What about that green egg grill that had a post kicking around here for a while. It has a pizza stone attachment. That thing shows promise, and comes in a few sizes.  One was small enough that it seemed you could keep it indoors, then take it out to the sidewalk for cooking.  It appears to be very efficent, so you could get it up to temp quickly.  I have been wondering about that thing, as I live in inner city Boston.

Offline pftaylor

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2005, 07:01:40 AM »
sibard,
You have enough heat. More would be better but you reminded me about Franklin Roosevelt's saying which goes roughly like this:
Do what you can with what you have with where you are.


Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline sibard

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2005, 08:15:04 AM »
yes but that statement implies that you should make the best of what you got, what about those that are willing to spend?

Offline pftaylor

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2005, 08:47:12 AM »
sibard,
It's hard to tell from your previous posts if you are already making pies and you feel that a high temperature oven is holding you back somehow or if you are assuming you need an oven capable of greater than 300C before you begin. Kindly clarify.

Depending on how much of a budget you have I'm sure the community would be able to suggest an appropriate course of action ranging from a simple table top oven to an indoor wood burning model. Share with us what your project details are and I'm sure we would be willing to help. Do you have a stone or tiles in your oven? Do you have pictures of your latest efforts which you can share with us so that we can suggest a general direction?

My comment above is based on my belief that you may need to perfect your recipe before spending money on an oven "solution." An oven capable of producing extreme heat will not make up for a bad recipe. Or a recipe which is not prepared correctly.

You may not have the problem you think you have...
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline varasano

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2005, 12:39:59 PM »
I think you have to make progress on all fronts.  Without a doubt, you have to make progress on your dough technique and the heat alone will not make your pie. And there is plenty of info here to do that. But without some additional heat you will not get to a true neopolitan pie.  You can get a good pie. 300C (572F) is enough heat for a classic NYC pie.  But your dough recipe at that temp will have to be different, so working on perfecting just that aspect, without the heat will ultimately be misleading.

I'm going to experiment with a 675F pie tomorrow, which is the lowest I've done in years. If I learn anything I'll post on this thread about it.

Offline sibard

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2005, 05:35:26 PM »
versano, thanks for understanding buddy. Now if my results are going to be miss leading then that can only result in total confusion for me. I am no expert, therefore i can never be sure if its the heat or not? This again is only with regards to Neapolitan pie.

I have worked with pizzas at number of joints for a couple of years, but although the pizzas sold well in these establishments i didn’t like them and would never try to replicate these. Now as it stands i haven’t purchased any equipment, just a few ingredients here and there. I dont want to spend money buying the wrong things....

I also have to admit i am only interested in making a Neapolitan pie. Now reading through the many useful posts on this forum it became aware to me that i might require higher temps. As far as ingredients, fermenting and autolyse techniques, well there’s plenty on here for me to experiment with and i have no problem baking a 1,000 pies till i get it right. I was just a little worried that i would be wasting my time a little with the oven i already own.

again if anyone can offer a cost effective way of obtaining a small oven as such i would be over the moon to hear from you. I personally have found many but unfortunately they are all for commercial use.

Thanks again

Si


Offline sibard

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2005, 05:38:07 PM »
I'm going to experiment with a 675F pie tomorrow, which is the lowest I've done in years. If I learn anything I'll post on this thread about it.

oh and thanks for this, this would be more than i could ask for pal.

p.s any chance you could ship me a slice to taste...lol

si

Offline varasano

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2005, 11:45:26 AM »
Continue to look for oven choices. pftaylor uses a grill. Just be aware when you are looking for oven possibilities that you will have to achieve the temperature differential that I talk about on my page.  A grill like pftaylor is using can generate a lot of heat but he had to make a number of adjustments to get the balance between the heat coming from the top and bottom correct. I too spent months getting it right on my oven. So just be prepared to experiment and you should be aware of the problem before you buy anything.

Jeff

Offline sibard

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Re: oven help for beginner
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2005, 07:30:14 PM »
ok  thanks versano, but does anyone have any recomendations. I can afford upto $2000, which isnt a great deal but maybe ok for a small oven.
something like this:

http://www.earthstoneovens.com/m60.html

i would prefer a gas one if anyone knows of one

thanks again  to everyone

si