Author Topic: Steel plate  (Read 51192 times)

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Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2011, 09:58:23 PM »
Tell you what... go with 500 and a full hour pre-heat.  It's a little overkill on the time, but I want to be absolutely certain that the stone is 500 all the way through.

And your recipe looks great.   For a cold fermented All Trumps dough, I might dial back on the kneading, but, for the purposes of this testing, it shouldn't matter a great deal. Are you forming the skin in stages because it's fighting you?  If so, less kneading will help in that regard.  Is your dough between 2x and 3x the volume by the time you form the skin?

Also, are you using the broiler while the pizza is baking? The (hopefully) conductive plate will help with bottom induced spring, but you need a good blast of heat from above as well to really maximize upward mobility.  I form/top my skin, turn on the broiler, wait until it turns bright red, and then launch the pie.  I then leave the broiler on for the first two minutes of the bake.  You'll need to adjust the time for the distance your broiler is to your stone.  My vertical space is 6".


Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2011, 10:15:35 PM »
O.K.  I will go for 500 and a good hour pre-heat.  My skin is not really fighting me.  I like to give it a rest so it stretches really easily.  My dough is just under doubled after 48 hr cold ferment and 2 hours at room temp.  Should I boost the yeast?  I will use the broiler as you suggest.  One thing that confuses me after all the dust has settled is that my steel in my oven is still warm, but my firebrick below it is cool, even though the firebrick is thicker.  Hmmm.

Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2011, 10:29:57 PM »
That is strange. How thick is the firebrick?

Yes, to the yeast boost.  Try a teaspoon and  a quarter. For All Trumps, you really want to shoot for between doubling and tripling. Even more than triple is not the end of the world, if your container can handle it.

Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2011, 11:06:00 PM »
My firebrick is three quarters inch thick.  It is a twenty year old Pizza Gourmet Stone which looks and acts like firebrick.  I will up the yeast a bit.  Thanks Scott.

Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2011, 08:11:32 PM »
Scott, tried the steel plate tonight.  Used same dough, but bumped up yeast to 1 and a quarter teaspoon, and cut machine mix by one minute.  Did a twenty four hour rise instead of 48.  My container is a bit small, and the dough pushed off the top.  Dough doubled after 2 hours out of referigerator.  Gave steel a 90 minute warm up at 550 for overkill.  Cranked up broiler to red hot, and launched pie onto steel.  Great oven spring, cut broiler after one minute ( my electric broiler is wicked, and at 6 inches, I would incinerate pie if I kept it on for 2 full minutes ).  Pulled pie at 3 and a half minutes.  Great color on top and bottom crust.  Bottom crust not that crispy.  Good taste.  So an A for spring, C for crispy crust.  Maybe leave pie in for 4 minutes next time.  Was going to buy infrared thermometer, but the steel has some reflectiveness to it, and I read where the IR thermomter may give false readings.  Still interested in steel plate, but ambivalent.  Will continue to experiment.

buceriasdon

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2011, 09:58:22 PM »
Communist, Reflection off the the plate is immaterial, doesn't matter.
Don

Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2011, 10:32:54 PM »
Mark, what bake times were you getting with the Gourmet stone @ 650?

The good news is that I think you've got a viable untweaked oven capable stone there.  You'll get crispiness from a longer bake, ie, a slightly lower temp. You can also try dialing back the hydration a bit and increasing the oil (try 2%).  The downside to a longer bake is less oven spring.  That's the price you pay for crispy, though.

I find it helps to let the pizza cool on a wire rack- that way the bottom doesn't get so soggy.

The bad news is that 3.5 minutes @ 550 is not so good for people looking for a material that will give them 4 minutes @ 475.  Not good at all.  Quite sucky, actually  ;D Could you get your hands on an IR thermometer?  And how about a photo?

Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2011, 09:20:28 AM »
Scott/Don Thanks for the advice.  At 650 with the stone, I was getting a approx 3.5 minutes bake with good oven spring and some char on bottom crust.  I'm not sure about crisp factor.  I may repeat these with the tweaked dough and see what happens,with careful documentation along the way, including photos.  Then I will compare that to the steel plate at 550.  I had a nice gallery of photos but was unable to add them.  It said I have too much data?  Who should I contact concerning this?  I have an apple computer.  I cool on a wire rack.  I will get an IR thermometer.  Thanks for all your help!  Mark

buceriasdon

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2011, 09:26:49 AM »
Mark, The easiest method to post pictures is to set your camera to take smaller pics. Problem solved.
Don


Scott/Don Thanks for the advice.  At 650 with the stone, I was getting a approx 3.5 minutes bake with good oven spring and some char on bottom crust.  I'm not sure about crisp factor.  I may repeat these with the tweaked dough and see what happens,with careful documentation along the way, including photos.  Then I will compare that to the steel plate at 550.  I had a nice gallery of photos but was unable to add them.  It said I have too much data?  Who should I contact concerning this?  I have an apple computer.  I cool on a wire rack.  I will get an IR thermometer.  Thanks for all your help!  Mark

Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2011, 09:31:36 AM »
Will try that Don.  Thanks  Mark


Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2011, 06:55:30 PM »
Mark, while it's preferable to upload the photos to the forum so that they'll never be deleted, if you're having problems re-sizing them, it's not the end of the world, for this last batch, to upload them to a photo sharing site and then post the links here. Flickr is popular.  I use photobucket, but there are lots of options. I can't speak for Flickr, but I do know that photobucket has a remedial photo editing area that will allow you to re-size the photos (and then upload them here), although it could involve a lot of labor.

Generally speaking, at typical 60-65% hydrations, 3.5 minute baked pies aren't crisp.  NY style, as a whole, is more of a puffy/chewy thing than a puffy/crispy thing.

Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2011, 09:27:43 PM »
This is a test to see if I can post pics



Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2011, 09:47:05 PM »
These are pics from my first run with the steel plate.  I had the stone in the oven for the first run, and oven set at 475.  I did not get a good bake at 475, and slid the pie to the stone after 5 minutes or so. I pulled the pie at 8 minutes.  Tasted great, good crisp crust, but poor spring.  In any event, I am getting the IR thermometer, and will post future pics with specific times and temps baking on steel.  Last night, I did not take pics, with no stone and steel at 550.  I will document future experiments.  Thanks again Scott and Don!  Mark


Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2011, 06:46:43 PM »
Mark, a belated thank you for posting the photos.

I'm a little surprised by how much the shelf is bowing. That is some serious looking strain. I don't necessarily see it being a problem, but it's still looks a lot more bowed than I was expecting.  I'd hate to see what 3/4" would look like.

I think you could go a long way in improving spring, shortening bake times, as well as encouraging crispiness by dialing back the thickness factor. Instead of an 11 oz. ball, I'd go with 10 oz. for that diameter.

Offline compatta

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2011, 05:58:45 AM »
anybody want to try iron barbells that are used in weight lifting?
Easily...100 lbs is possible.
The true and quintessential version of pie to me is [NEO-New Haven]:
Crust of a New Haven Pizza with the Signature California style that
makes Fresh and Organic Pizza Possible.

Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2011, 09:03:50 AM »
Scott, Yep, my 17 by 17 by 1/2 steel plate is 42 pounds.  I am careful in handling it.  If it slips, it could break my toes.   Three quarters inch thick is just not practical.  Wow! Reduce my thickness factor from 0.076 to 0.070.  A bit intimidating, but I can see how that would contribute to a lighter, faster bake with more crisp.  I will consider that.   Those Pyrex 7 cup proofing bowls you recommend are great!  I picked up three for $5 each, and I love them.  My IR thermometer has shipped.  I will post my experiment findings with data and pics soon.  Any particular settings you recommend for my next trial?   Mark

Offline carbon

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2011, 02:41:59 PM »
Wow, that's heavy.  I have a Lodge 14" cast iron pizza pan that I used to use in my oven.  That thing weighed about 10 pounds and worked great.

edit:  I just realized cast iron pans were already brought up in this thread.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 02:45:31 PM by carbon »

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2011, 11:13:32 AM »
Has anyone tried the steel plates, a la modernist cuisine, to achieve neapolitan style?

Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2011, 08:49:52 PM »
Scott!  Exciting results with steel!  Tonight, I preheated my steel plate for 90 minutes ( overkill )  My electric range was set for 550, but I only hit 530 with 2 metal dial thermometers and verified by my new IR thermometer.  I hit the broiler for 45 seconds, and my steel plate jumped to 600 when I went to launch pie.  The broiler stayed on for another 40 seconds, then cut out.  I pulled my pie after 3 1/2 minutes.  Oven spring, near char on bottom and crispness! 

Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2011, 10:16:58 PM »
Very impressive, Mark- and picture perfect documentation.

I'm especially pleased that you were able to get the IR thermometer.  The timing couldn't be better, as I've been using the results here to debate the merits of a steel plate technique laid out in an upcoming book (that Hotsawce mentioned above)

You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven

Without the thermometer, I was a tiny bit hesitant to completely rule out any possibility of a Neapolitan 2 minute bake @550 with 1/4" steel, but now that I've seen your data, I am 100% certain that it can't be done.

Don't worry about the 90 minute pre-heat.  I still stand by what I said earlier.  The stone will be fully pre-heated in 45 minutes- max.

Based upon your results, I would say that 1/2" steel plate performs a little bit better than 1 1/4" soapstone, which is good, but not, as I've said before, as good as I would have liked.  It's great for 530ish oven owners like yourself, but it doesn't do much for the 500 and below folks. I guess it's back to the drawing board for a one size fits all solution. It is far easier to track down than soapstone, though, and cheaper, so that's a big plus.

Really great work.  Thanks for doing this.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 10:19:00 PM by scott123 »


 

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