Author Topic: Steel plate  (Read 49874 times)

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Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #160 on: October 03, 2012, 11:13:10 AM »
Mike, I think Mark (Communist) is doing picture perfect examples of NY pizzas that have a little bit of the undercrust char that makes Neapolitan great, so if Neapolitan is your ultimate goal, emulating Mark's recipe/methods is definitely a worthy task.


Offline PuRowdy

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #161 on: October 03, 2012, 11:40:09 AM »
Scott,

I'm not sure what a36 means when it comes to steel, when I called and spoke with the place that made it they said it was hot rolled steel though. 

Yes it was launched with a wooden peel lightly dusted with semolina.  I picked up a IR thermometer yesterday (great purchase) and if I remember correctly it was right around 590, and yes just a few seconds over 4 minutes total time on the first pizza which was good but not great and 7 min for the one in the pictures.  This was all done in an oven that I'm not entirely used to using, and the doughs were made by my dad, I'm not sure of his exact recipe but he told me he was following a Lehmann's he found here on the site and that he had measured it down to the ounce.  He's good at making doughs and taught me a lot of what I know so I trust his methods. 

I will get more detailed exact info on the doughs I make tonight and plate temps when I cook this weekend in my oven that I'm used to using and see what kind of results that I get.  I'm planning on adding small amounts of oil and sugar to these doughs which I normally don't do, maybe I'll make a batch of my regular method too.

I found a place online where I was able to purchase some All Trumps Bromated flour as I can't seem to find it anywhere near me in Indiana, but until it arrives I'm going to go with KA Bread Flour.

I do have a question about my new steel, I cleaned it best I could with water and a very light dish soap to get what looked like light rust off of it and it seems good now, should I be doing anything to season it?  Light coat of oil, or just leave it as is?

Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #162 on: October 03, 2012, 10:29:04 PM »
Colin, I think you'll find a few slightly different opinions on seasoning in the forum.

I think the consensus is that if you live near the ocean, you definitely want to season.

Otherwise, I feel that seasoning is unnecessary.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #163 on: October 03, 2012, 11:18:02 PM »
If it's in a salty atmosphere and does not get regular use with greasy food like fries, chicken, w/e, definitely season it.  If it's your regular-use oven, just leave it in your oven and the oily vapor from your usual cooking will keep the rust off.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline rcbaughn

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #164 on: October 04, 2012, 08:06:20 PM »
So after all the hoopla on Slice about how good the steel does vs a stone I emailed around just to get an idea about how much a 16x16x1/2" plate would cost, and got back one quote for $40. That seem reasonable? It's A36 hot rolled I think. It would be a while before I could get it, but wanted to make sure I was on the right track if I go that way.

And what about baking loaves of bread? Will the longer bake times work better with just a stone? I'm not worried about top browning on my pies btw, I can always hold them on my peel directly under the broiler.
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #165 on: October 04, 2012, 09:14:48 PM »
Cory, that's a pretty reasonable price.  One thing I would recommend is to consider going larger, if your oven can fit it. Size is a pretty big component of NY style pizza- the larger the plate the better.  It can be touching the back wall and almost touching the door- the space on the sides is plenty for air flow.

Steel will transfer the heat too quickly for bread and brown/burn the bottom before the top is done.  For bread, you want something less conductive, like a typical baking stone, but you might be able to get away with a denser brand of quarry tile.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #166 on: October 04, 2012, 09:24:44 PM »
Instead of pulling out the steel to make bread, what you can do is use a terra-cotta planter to bake the bread on.  You can get them all different shapes and sizes, so feel free to be creative with it.  The terra-cotta will slow down the heat transmission to a workable level for bread.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline rcbaughn

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #167 on: October 04, 2012, 11:09:05 PM »
Thanks Scott, I'll see about going larger. I usually make American style pizza but it would be nice to have a baking surface versatile enough for both styles.

And thanks Brian, I have a 12" terra cotta saucer in my little mini WSM so I could use that as a tester. Hopefully I won't be baking inside too much longer from now though. :)
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline rcbaughn

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #168 on: October 04, 2012, 11:13:01 PM »
I'm probably going to season it btw if that's recommended. I just like the idea of that initial sticking or rust protection. Just a thin coat of peanut oil and season like you would a cast iron skillet right? I know that you don't wanna have a thick smear of oil or you get that plasticized nasty stick stuff in the surface. I did that with a smooth steel pot and it sucked to remove.
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline MO_Pie

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #169 on: October 05, 2012, 01:02:16 AM »
How about steel on stone?  Not sure if I've seen any picutures of this thread of pies on a steel on top of stone rig...  But if doing bread you're going to have your bread far away from the broiler so the steel might not be so hot, and that large wad of dough is going to cool that steel off pretty dang quick.

Instead of pulling out the steel to make bread, what you can do is use a terra-cotta planter to bake the bread on.  You can get them all different shapes and sizes, so feel free to be creative with it.  The terra-cotta will slow down the heat transmission to a workable level for bread.



Offline PuRowdy

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #170 on: October 05, 2012, 10:23:50 AM »
Attempt number two on the steel plate was last night.  Things went good but I'm still seeing cook times much longer than I expected, though perhaps thats just how long its going to take.  Final results were still delicious.  I took a series of pics by very quickly pulling the stone out at 4 and 8 minutes and then once I pulled it after 11 minutes.

Oven was set to 500, and the temp of the plate right before I launched was 527 (checked with IR thermometer). 

I made these doughs, was hoping to get 48 hours in the fridge but only got 24 due to some changes in weekend plans, and my All Trumps arrived yesterday so I had to make some doughs with that, can't wait to try those.  I used KA Bread flour with ADY, though I wasn't thinking properly and didn't use warm water with the ADY, it was most likely below room temp.  Anyways here is a link to the album of pics.

http://imgur.com/a/MBb7S

Dough Recipe was:

Flour 100%
Water 63%
ADY .75%
Salt 2%
Oil 1%
Sugar 2%

Any thoughts as to the prolonged bake times, or is that normal for the way I like my pizza's to come out?

Offline slybarman

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #171 on: October 05, 2012, 11:25:01 AM »
8 mins does seem pretty long. I can get more-or-less that same back in under 8 mins on Cordierite at 525. I definitely expect shorter time from steel as well.

On the plus side, it looks like you had a nice balance of top and bottom heat and the picture made me hungry.

Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #172 on: October 05, 2012, 11:49:11 AM »
Colin, are you sure this is 1/2" steel plate?

Offline PuRowdy

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #173 on: October 05, 2012, 12:54:37 PM »
Colin, are you sure this is 1/2" steel plate?

Now that you say that Scott I just discovered it isn't. I ordered 1/2" but when I measured it I discovered its actually 3/8", not 1/2". Hmmm, that's frustrating...  Is that where my issue is?

Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #174 on: October 05, 2012, 01:08:26 PM »
Yes, Colin, I would say that the thickness is probably 80% of your issue. Kenji, on Slice, has been getting good undercrust color (not char, but good browning) in 4 minutes with 1/4" steel @ 500 or possibly even less, but for the members of this forum who have used 3/8" and 1/4" steel, 7 minutes is as low as they've gone.

How long are you pre-heating your plate for?  Are you using the broiler for part of the pre-heat?


Offline scott123

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #175 on: October 05, 2012, 01:14:05 PM »
Btw, I really don't see how this could be the sole reason behind Kenji's success, but the one difference between his stone and the ones we use is seasoning.  Even though I'm not a big fan of smoking up the house by seasoning the plate, it wouldn't hurt to try it, and, with the baking temps you're at (530), it shouldn't bake off. Also, because of the darker color, seasoning might trim your pre-heat times a bit.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 05:59:09 PM by scott123 »

Offline communist

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #176 on: October 05, 2012, 03:08:56 PM »
As Scott 123 states, bigger is better when it comes to steel.  I have 17 by 17 by 1/2 and would even like 18 by 18.  I have a cheap Kenmore electric oven that goes to 530 or 540, and with my steel and top broiler kick, I have everything I need to put out the one of the best New York pies anywhere.  I am a student of Scott 123, and he has brought me to the promised land.  My steel is seasoned.  I wipe it down every 2nd or 3rd use with olive oil and it has a nice dark smooth patina.  No rust.  At 530, no pie should take longer than 5 minutes.  My times are 3.5 to 4.5 minutes, with some char.  Mike, I am glad to review my process, and ask any questions.  Kitchen Aid mixer  All Trumps Bromated, 63% hydration ( Pur filtered water ) 1.75% salt, .5% IDY and 1% Olive Oil.  Toss yeast into flour, and mix salt into heated water.  Add water to flour ( temps added equal around 140 degrees, to get about 80 degrees after mix )  and combine with spatula for 3 second mix.  Mix in Kitchen Aid mixer on speed one for 1 minute, speed 2 for one minute, and toss in oil and keep on speed 2 for 1 minute.  Total 3 minute mix ( and I think I can even cut down on this ).  Divide dough into 14 ounce balls ( And I do hand knead for about 15 seconds each ball to get a nice round smooth ball ).  Put in lightly oiled containers.  Refrigerate for 2 to 3 days.  Pull containers 2 to 3 hours before baking and place in room temperature to warm up.  On well floured surface, open 14 ounce ball to 16 inches.  Place on peel with semolina, top with 6.5 ounces cheese, 6 ounces sauce, dust with Pecorino Romano, and launch pie.  Top broiler assist for 45 seconds.  Pull pie from 3.5 to 4.5 minutes.  Enjoy.  :chef:   Mark

Offline slybarman

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #177 on: October 05, 2012, 03:14:38 PM »
As Scott 123 states, bigger is better when it comes to steel.  I have 17 by 17 by 1/2 and would even like 18 by 18.  I have a cheap Kenmore electric oven that goes to 530 or 540, and with my steel and top broiler kick, I have everything I need to put out the one of the best New York pies anywhere.  I am a student of Scott 123, and he has brought me to the promised land.  My steel is seasoned.  I wipe it down every 2nd or 3rd use with olive oil and it has a nice dark smooth patina.  No rust.  At 530, no pie should take longer than 5 minutes.  My times are 3.5 to 4.5 minutes, with some char.  Mike, I am glad to review my process, and ask any questions.  Kitchen Aid mixer  All Trumps Bromated, 63% hydration ( Pur filtered water ) 1.75% salt, .5% IDY and 1% Olive Oil.  Toss yeast into flour, and mix salt into heated water.  Add water to flour ( temps added equal around 140 degrees, to get about 80 degrees after mix )  and combine with spatula for 3 second mix.  Mix in Kitchen Aid mixer on speed one for 1 minute, speed 2 for one minute, and toss in oil and keep on speed 2 for 1 minute.  Total 3 minute mix ( and I think I can even cut down on this ).  Divide dough into 14 ounce balls ( And I do hand knead for about 15 seconds each ball to get a nice round smooth ball ).  Put in lightly oiled containers.  Refrigerate for 2 to 3 days.  Pull containers 2 to 3 hours before baking and place in room temperature to warm up.  On well floured surface, open 14 ounce ball to 16 inches.  Place on peel with semolina, top with 6.5 ounces cheese, 6 ounces sauce, dust with Pecorino Romano, and launch pie.  Top broiler assist for 45 seconds.  Pull pie from 3.5 to 4.5 minutes.  Enjoy.  :chef:   Mark

Good info. Thank you.

One thing jumped out at me - 140 degrees to finish at 80. In my KA with a similar dough, I start with about 85 degree water to finish at 80. Are you sure you are dropping from 140 to 80 in 3 minutes?

Edit - or did you mean the temp of the water PLUS the temp of the flour = 140? I am thinking now that was your intent.

Edit2: Disregard. You said it clearly. My brain saw what it was expecting, not what you wrote.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 05:59:01 PM by slybarman »

Offline PuRowdy

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #178 on: October 06, 2012, 08:31:07 AM »
Made a couple last night again, this time using my doughs made with All Trumps flour.  What a difference that made, probably the best pies I've made. 

I've done both ways, using broiler and not.  Turned out better when I turned the broiler on for a min or two before launching pizza and for a minute after being in oven.  Still had to go right around 10-12 minutes to get what I wanted, forgot to check steel temperature last night but I'm guessing it was in the 530 range. 

Wish they had given me 1/2" steel since that is what I had ordered, not to upset though, still cooking better than it did with my stone.  I may try giving it a seasoning and see how that affects things. 

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Re: Steel plate
« Reply #179 on: October 06, 2012, 08:55:29 AM »
As you have a iron oxide film from the hot roll process on the plate, the color is already dark, it is very doubtful that seasoning will make a difference as far a bake times. I would suggest seasoning none the less. Good to hear your getting better results.
Don


 

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