Author Topic: 00 or high-gluten?  (Read 7549 times)

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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: 00 or high-gluten?
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2005, 01:51:25 PM »
Hey Marco,

The enzymes though come from the yeast and lactobacilli.

Jeff

The flour has already enough enzymes without adding the yeast. Italian "professional" flours comes in fact with a "falling value" number which indicates the enzymatic activity. I know Ed Wood book very well, however you need to read different sources to be sure of what you are saying. Leaving aside the use of a starter, and the bacteria activity (not all bacteria behave in the same way, but I am surprised that you do not know that below 5 degree Celsius, it slows down and they stop reproducing...), the cold rise is primarly intended for the enzymatic activity.


Offline Anne

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Received my flour! What about yeast?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2005, 04:23:38 PM »
Hi everyone. 

Well, I received my Caputa 00 and my K.A.S.L. flour. 

My real question at the moment is this:  ADY and IDY have different weights per once (0.13333 for ADY and .10625 for IDY, according to one of Pete-zza's posts, I believe).  As far as equivalent effectiveness, is it by weight, volume, or neither?  In other words, does 1 oz of ADY have the same levening capability as 1 oz of IDY, or does 1 tsp of ADY have the same levening capability of 1 tsp IDY?  Or is the ratio something else? 


I just made my first dough w/ the 00, and I don't think it is going well.  I used, based on one of the 00 recipes I found (pizzanapolitana's?):
     20.5 oz 00 flour (probably; I added a couple of pinches to 20 oz) (100%)
     12 oz water (58.5%) @ 80'
     2.5 tsp salt (2.4%) - probably too much!
     1/4 tsp ADY  (.16%)
I added water, yeast, & 1/2 the flour & let it sit for about 45 minutes.  Then I added the salt and the rest of the flour and mixed for about 10 minutes (taking it off the hook a few times in there).  It really is still too sticky, and tastes very salty.  I put 1/2 in the refrigerator right away, and the other half I left out to rise.  The half I left out doesn't seem to have budged.  So I think I used too much salt & too little yeast.  I'll let it hang out in the refrigerator, though, until tomorrow night.

(I have to double the quantity, otherwise my kitchen aid can't handle it properly.  And my wrists can't handle mixing it by hand.) 

Next time around I think I am going to use the following proportions, which is similar to what is used in the high-gluten recipes posted here: 
     20 oz flour (100%) - any type
     12 oz water (60%)
     1 tbl sugar (2.11%)
     1 tbl oil (2.47%)
     1.5 tsp salt (1.48%)
     1 tsp yeast (.67%)
Not certain about that initial rest period or not.  I think my cinnamon swirl bread likes it, but that is a very different dough!

Anne, pizza-maker wanna-be

Anne, pizza maker wanna-be

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 00 or high-gluten?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2005, 06:48:21 PM »
Anne,

Yeast is measured both by weight and by volume. Heavy uses of yeast, such as bakers and many pizza operators, measure yeast by weight. Most small users of yeast, such as home bakers, use volume measurements. The two numbers you mentioned (0.13333 and 0.01625) are conversion factors for converting teaspoons of ADY and IDY to ounces. This data was determined by members of this forum. To convert yeast stated by weight, the usual conversions are as follows: to convert from cake yeast to ADY, divide the amount of cake yeast in ounces/grams/pounds (i.e., weight) by 1/2; to convert from cake yeast to IDY, divide the amount of cake yeast in ounces/grams/pounds by 1/3. To convert from ADY to IDY on a weight basis, multiply the amount of ADY by 2/3. Since most home bakers use volume measurements, the conversion of ADY to IDY is achieved by dividing the amount of ADY in, say, teaspoons or tablespoons, by 1.25. Yeast packets as sold in the supermarkets usually show the conversions from one type of yeast to another. However, if you don't like dealing with math, you might want to use a yeast conversion chart to do the math for you. One good chart can be found at http://www.theartisan.net/MainCommFrm.htm, by clicking on the Conversion chart link on the left panel.

You baker's percents and ingredient amounts in your first recipe look correct. The amount of salt, while seemingly high, is the correct amount. High salt levels are common with doughs made using 00 flour. I hope you won't throw out the portion of dough that you indicated didn't seem to be rising. From your general description of the mixing/kneading technique, it sounds like you mixed the ADY with the water and a portion of the flour. If you did this, then it may take longer for the ADY to properly hydrate and for the dough to rise. The standard technique for proofing (rehydrating) ADY yeast is to mix it with a small amount of warm water ( a few tablespoons in your case) for no more than 15 minutes. The proofed yeast is then added to the rest of the water before adding to the flour and other ingredients. The amount of yeast you used is not too little.

Your second recipe also correctly states the baker's percents. You didn't indicate the type of yeast used, but I determined that it is ADY, just as in the first recipe. You also didn't indicate how you intend to prepare the dough using that recipe, but if you plan to use 00 flour for that recipe, you should understand that the final product will differ from what you will get using the first recipe. I hope you will let us know how the second recipe turns out.

I applaud you for competently handing the math in the above examples. You have done your homework.

Peter

Offline Anne

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Re: 00 or high-gluten?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2005, 07:53:36 PM »
Thanks, Peter.  I tucked the dough into the refrigerator.  I normally proof my yeast for bread as you describe, and will next time around for the pizza dough.You are correct, I didn't do that this time. 

Thanks for the weight conversion info for between yeast types.  I can see that now.  If, for instance, we are using 20 oz flour and 1% by weight IDY (just as an arbitrary example):
20 oz * .01 = .2 oz. 
0.2 oz = 1.88 tsp IDY. 
1.88 tsp IDY * 1.255 = 2.36 tsp ADY
2.36 tsp ADY = .315 oz ADY
.315 oz / .2 oz = 1.57, or approximately the 3/2 conversion you mentioned (well, you mentioned the 2/3 conversion from ADY to IDY).  So I'm happy now. 

I'm almost done w/ my ADY, and have a big vacuum sealed container of IDY in the pantry, so I wanted to make certain I had the relationship down. 

Thanks again. 
Anne, pizza maker wanna-be

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 00 or high-gluten?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2005, 08:03:23 PM »
Anne,

You have it right 8). You go to the head of the class.

With the way you sling the numbers, you won't be a wanna-be pizza maker for long. You will be the real deal.

Peter


 

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