Author Topic: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes  (Read 21647 times)

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2011, 11:12:07 PM »
you have a point, but everyone's taste is different, as are the goals of the sauce.  Some like a bright, acidic sauce, others like a sweeter sauce...still others like a heavily spiced sauce......a firm stepping stone would be the 6n1 maters to start with, and then adjust to taste from there, no?  When cooking to taste, I never measure...I add and taste and add some more and tweak things as I go...I think the dough is a bit different - water, salt, yeast and flour - the cornerstone of any dough...does the combination of said ingredients actually make the crust taste all that different (aside from massive amounts of salt added)?  Or does the technique (ball and folds, mixing time, autolyze, and cold ferment, etc) have more impact on the end result?  I think the latter, but I am a beginner, so I could be way off here. 

Those are excellent points,and we all know that sauce is a very diverse topic based on preferences, and many times,individuality.

Yet I want to make an example...look at the Pizza Chains across the country.They will taste basically the same,no matter where you travel or go.I think that is kind of the point using 6 in 1's as a base and adapting a recipe to it that others can try out,and see whether they like it or not,without just making a sauce on the fly,where it will taste a bit different each time you make it.

Then,folks can tweak and either add or subtract,spices to their liking if the current recipes posted was not enough.Dough preference is almost similar.Can you imagine someone making their dough and posting they used a pinch of sugar,a handful of yeast,a pinch of salt,a few cups of water,unsure,and oil until it looked right in the mix?

To me the dough recipes is very much like the sauces...there are so many variables,hydrations,different types of flours brands used,high protein or gluten,low protein,bleached,bromated,non bleached,non bromated and etc.

There are dough ingredients added like salts,sugar,whey,oils,dough conditioners,different types of yeast,starters,etc.There are so many styles of pizza dough,The lists just goes on.Don't forget,each dough has different percentages of how much salt,water,oil,sugar or etc is used at a time.Changes in some of these can make enormous differences.

Some are cooked at very high temps,some are cooked at lower temps.Just saying dough is flour,yeast,water and salt is very basic.

That said,Sauce really is not that much diverse from dough recipes when you break it all down.One could easily say Pizza sauce is tomato puree or ground tomatoes,with spices added.

I believe that sauces,like dough recipes,can benefit from actual recipe amounts and percentages,just like dough recipes posted on here,only if you use a common base,and one most folks can purchase or acquire at home.Using the 6 in 1's is a good place to start,or any other good brand of tomatoes.I would love to see a sauce someone Loved made with a Escalon,Stanislaus base or other brand and shared the recipes as they did their dough recipe.

Then,like dough recipes,one can adjust spices and etc to their tastes should they want to do so.

While there may never be a sauce calculator,there can still be recipes people can copy and tweak later.

They do this everyday with dough recipes here and all of you folks turn out so many fantastic looking,yet diverse pies,that are never the same from one poster to the next.
 :)










-Bill


Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2011, 09:33:38 AM »
...  But if you want to tell somebody how you adjusted my sauce, give them precise quantities and then they can see what you did and how it differs....

... And once you make my sauce, you know what I like in a pizza sauce...even if you know nothing else about me...

Ron

I bought several cans of 6 in 1 tomatoes at a Bruno's grocery store in Alabama on my last trip there.  Although I enjoy them straight from the can, I thought--- what the hey, since Ron put up a mix, I'll reproduce it, and see how I like his taste in sauce.  Since I don't have a gram "herb" scale, I used the volume measurements and mixed them together.  Once I had the seasonings in one pile on a paper plate, I visually seperated the pile into fourths and added it to one forth of the can of 6 in 1's.  I omitted the water and Kraft Parmesan but included some sugar.

6 in 1                                   Volume measurements for 1Lb 12 oz can
Dry oregano                          1 teaspoon
Minced dry onion                   1 1/2 teaspoons      
sea salt (FINE)                      3/4 teaspoon
Black pepper                         3/8 teaspoon
Garlic powder                        1 1/4 teaspoon
Sugar                                  3/4 teaspoon

I seems childish to debate the validity of posting a spice mix to put with a can of tomatos, per someones taste.  Pretty good stuff Ron.

I used the entire quarter can of sauce on a single 14" Y-Town emergency dough. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3146.msg27116.html#msg27116 The pizza was topped with a 50/50 Oaxaca/Asadero cheese blend.  Jimmy Dean sausage and a few green olives.  Baked at 500* on a Primo stone with the broiler on. I love this dough.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 09:37:22 AM by Jet_deck »
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2011, 10:35:35 AM »
My recollection is that the first time the question came up about the feasibility of using baker's percents for pizza sauces came from member MWTC about four years ago at Reply 14 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4470.msg37813.html#msg37813. Since the question was directed to me, I responded in Reply 15 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4470.msg37832.html#msg37832. There are many other posts in that thread on the subject that make for very interesting reading, including insightful posts by member November.

Subsequently, when I decided to try to reverse-engineer and clone Papa John's basic pizza sauce, I was already attuned to the idea of using baker's percents for the sauce. I was also well aware of the issues involved in such an approach and I made note of them when I posted the various versions of the PJ clone sauce that I made, using different brands of tomatoes besides the 6 in 1s. If one scans those versions in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.msg56931.html#msg56931, it will be seen that I went to great pains to describe the characteristics of all of the sauce ingredients as accurately and as completely as I could. But, for all the care I took in what I did and posted, the results reflected only what my tastebuds told me. In fact, one member later reported that he thought that my PJ sauce clone was too sweet. I arrived at the sugar content of my PJ sauce clone through large numbers of side by side taste tests of the sauce I was making against an actual pizza sauce sample from PJs. If the other member, or any other member for that matter, did the same thing, the results could well reflect their tastebuds as passed on to them in their DNA by countless prior generations. That helps explain why people use a pinch of this or a pinch of that, adjust to taste, etc.

Peter

Offline BTB

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2011, 11:20:55 AM »
I seems childish to debate the validity of posting a spice mix to put with a can of tomatos . . .
It sure would be childish if it were true, but there never was such a debate.  You misread things.  I thought I reacted against the notion that one desiring to use "pinches" and the like in regards to just sauce additions were somewhat misguided or insufficient or useless or what-not.
 
As somebody with credentials and considerable experience in flavor evaluation I would like to state that "adjust to taste, just a pinch, you want just a hint of... " mean nothing without considerable experience in the subject.  "To Taste" is a uselessly imprecise and totally subjective term.

I know Ron didn't mean it like it may come across (as we often write things that come out different from what we intended), but to a lot of readers that comes across as arrogant and condescending.  And those are the words that we are stuck with for many years on this thread.  Now in watching the food and cooking shows and channels on TV recently, I'm amazed at how many of the noted celebrity cooks add "pinches, dashes, dabs and bits" of additives to their food concoctions.  I guess I subscribe to their school of thought and that's the way I'll be until I go out kicking.  But mainly in regards to the sauce because that can KILL an entire day or days' work and effort if the taste, flavor and over spiced affect ruin such hard work over the crust and other toppings.  I and others who contacted me have frequently experienced . . . "the crust, cheese and toppings were good . . . but the sauce ruined it all ! ! !"  How does one possibly go back and reverse it all after one may have possibly bungled the . . . as Ron puts it . .  the element that constitutes 41% of the pizza flavor? ? ?  (I thought it was just 35.75%)

Ron, I see you are a retired pharmacist and now can understand why you favor exact measurements.  And I support my local pharmacists being exact in their formulations of medications for me (altho most of the medications seem to come ready prepared from the supplier so I don't know how much mixing is actually done locally).
 
To the 6 in 1 sauce, the two essential additives IMHO are a little salt (unless you sense it is enough all ready, which some strangely do) and a pinch of oregano (or more if multiple pizzas are planned).  But I generally like to "pinch" on the oregano on top of the dressed pizza right before entering the oven. From there everything is "optional."  I often like to add a dash of onion powder, a dash of minced garlic, a dash of Penzey's dry crushed Basil is terrific, and what else? ?  Maybe a dash of sugar or honey. In the past I used to put in the proverbial "kitchen sink" but have come back to earth and think "less is best."  I know you won't like the "dashes" any more than the "pinches," but what can I say?
 
Ron, I enjoy your enthusiasm and look forward to your future contributions here.  On another thread (believe it was on the Pizza Travel thread), I made some suggestions to you for some Neapolitan pizzas in the Tampa Bay area when you next visit down here.
 
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Offline Meatballs

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2011, 02:41:13 PM »
As usual I wrote first and researched second.  I found the post on bakers percentage after posting my thoughts, it did validate my thinking though.  It was a true dual invention at different points in time.  It was interesting to see that Peter's concerns in the initial posts are addressed here with 6 in 1 being the standardizing agent.  Since I have a minor gout flare-up today I have the time to write a comparison of the recipes submitted so far with quantities.  I weighed MY spices/herbs on a gram scale with a 0.1gm accuracy to obtain the percentages, your mileage may vary, so feel free to add a pinch or subtract a handful. Thanks for the compliment Jet-Deck, we like it too.

Jet-Deck's recipe                                 ZekeTheCat's Recipe                Meatball's Recipe      Peter's PJ Clone

6 in 1                         100.00%                              100.00%                   100.00%                100.00% (after draining)
Dry oregano                     0.10%                               -----                         0.10%                   0.20%
Minced dry onion               0.50%            onion powder 0.17%                        0.50%                  -----
salt                                 0.50%                              -----                          0.60%                  0.24%
Black pepper                     0.10%                              -----                          0.10%                 -----
Garlic powder                    0.45%                              -----                          0.45%                  0.19%
Sugar                              0.38%                              0.45%                          -----                  2.48%
Dry Basil                          -----                                0.02%                          -----                  0.07%
Dry Red Cayenne              -----                                0.07%                          -----                   -----
Kraft Parmesan                 -----                                -----                           1.75%                  -----
water                             -----                                -----                          10.00%                  -----
Sunflower Oil                   -----                                -----                           -----                     2.76%
Olive Oil                          -----                                -----                           -----                     0.17%

Now we can finally turn data into information, just glancing at the results I notice that Meatball has no sugar (hmmm may give it a try, thought 6 in 1 was pretty sweet by itself).  Peter has oil in the PJ clone...wonder what that does for the PJ pie?  ZekeTheCat has shifted his flavors from the oregano to the basil side of the italian equation...while PJ is more balanced between the two (I like oregano but basil seems like a good idea, maybe an italian seasoning blend?)  Only Meatball puts the cheese...I think it has to do with the way he was raised and a more regional flavor.   This is what I see, please comment....

If more recipes are submitted that I can convert, I'll try to edit this page and include them.  I think this meets the intent of the thread at its inception....  Sorry we got sidetracked on the method of measurement.  If anybody sees any errors, please let me know so I can fix them.

BTB... Thank you for the recommendation for Tampa, our trip is coming up around March 11 and I am really excited to try a real Pizza Chef with good tools.

Ron
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 03:04:00 PM by Meatballs »

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2011, 03:55:52 PM »
It sure would be childish if it were true, but there never was such a debate.  You misread things.  I thought I reacted against the notion that one desiring to use "pinches" and the like in regards to just sauce additions were somewhat misguided or insufficient or useless or what-not.
  

Simply put, Ron posted a handful of spices to throw into a can of 6 in 1's. He qualified his post in these ways.

This type of thread is a great tool for beginners and lurkers
...They take a taste and because of experience know how it will translate into the final dish.  That technique, however, is not the way to convey information to others who may not be as experienced, keen in the palate or aware of the intended results...

Some how the bar got raised to include moms and grandmothers in throwing pinches and 'a touch' of ingredients into meals.  Then the bar was raised again to include professional pizza makers ruining entire buckets of sauce.  Finally it stretched into celebrity cooks adding "pinches, dashes, dabs and bits" of additives to their food concoctions. 

 I thought we were strictly speaking of pizza sauce made with 6 in 1's.

I know nothing about pizza except what I have learned here.  Just a few months ago Ragu spaghetti sauce was pretty dang good on my pizzas.  (Assuming that I could actually get a pizza off of my baking sheet peel with cornmeal on it.)  I appreciate Rons attempt to provide something that anyone can reproduce, irregardless if they like it or how fresh their spices are.

BTB I appreciate your knowledge and contributions to the forum.  Everything that I know comes from post from experienced people such as yourself.  I believe that Rons post stands on its own merit, as do all of yours.

Respectfully, Jet.
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Offline BTB

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2011, 05:09:44 PM »
Moving forward, I don't know if its been mentioned lately, but here's a couple of suggestions to try and flavor the sauce with if you haven't all ready.  One is to take a small amount of fennel seeds, crush them on a surface with a spoon and add to sauce.  Crushing the seeds releases some very powerful Italian flavoring in the spice, so one should be cautious to avoid overpowering the sauce with too much fennel flavoring. One of my Penzey spices is India Ground Fennel Seed, but I kind of prefer just crushing some seeds from a bag.
 
Similarly, anise seeds is another very popular Italian spice totally different from fennel, but predominates in certain regions of Italy and a number of old fashion pizzerias in the U.S. use it either in their sauce and/or their home made sausage.  Suggest to also crush a small amount and add it to some sauce and see if you like it.  But I don't recommend putting both fennel and anise in the same sauce.  Try one or the other.  And I only do this once in a while for sauce in thin crust versions and not deep dish styles.

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2011, 05:33:40 PM »
BTB, This is quite the concidence as one of the returning guests to the hotel where I work and live brought me down two bags of fennel today! ;D Can't get it here and I was running low. Bless her heart for remembering I use fennel in my sauce.
Don


Moving forward, I don't know if its been mentioned lately, but here's a couple of suggestions to try and flavor the sauce with if you haven't all ready.  One is to take a small amount of fennel seeds, crush them on a surface with a spoon and add to sauce.  Crushing the seeds releases some very powerful Italian flavoring in the spice, so one should be cautious to avoid overpowering the sauce with too much fennel flavoring. One of my Penzey spices is India Ground Fennel Seed, but I kind of prefer just crushing some seeds from a bag.
 
Similarly, anise seeds is another very popular Italian spice totally different from fennel, but predominates in certain regions of Italy and a number of old fashion pizzerias in the U.S. use it either in their sauce and/or their home made sausage.  Suggest to also crush a small amount and add it to some sauce and see if you like it.  But I don't recommend putting both fennel and anise in the same sauce.  Try one or the other.  And I only do this once in a while for sauce in thin crust versions and not deep dish styles.

                                                                                                             --BTB

Offline ZekeTheCat

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2011, 06:24:39 PM »
If you're having truoble getting herbs and spices (I'm not sure if they ship out side of the USA) - for US pizza makers / cooks this is a real good spice source and they have both ground fennel and ground anise. I have some that I use both in cookie making and Itallian pizza sausage topping making:

http://www.americanspice.com/factory_outlet.html

I'm going to try some in the sauce next time.

Offline BTB

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2011, 08:02:55 PM »
This is quite the concidence as one of the returning guests to the hotel where I work and live brought me down two bags of fennel today! Can't get it here and I was running low. Bless her heart for remembering I use fennel in my sauce.
Don, in my youth, the great independent mom and pop pizzerias in the midwest most commonly had some degree of fennel in their pizza sauces.  For some reason, it seems to be gone to a large degree, unfortunately, from the pizzeria sauce recipes of today.  It's good that you like using it.  I bet it would be good in that bar room thin and crispy  pizza that you recently reported on in the Cracker Style section, which looked really good.                                              --BTB


Offline Meatballs

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2011, 08:06:44 PM »
my family comes from the Italian area that puts fennel in their sausage...not in the sauce.  How much fennel would you suppose would give the sauce a hint but not overwhelm.  I'd love some sausage flavor in my non sausage pizzas.  My wife gets tired of living on oregano.  I put fennel at a rate of 3 teaspoons in 10 lbs of sausasage and since I like the flavor, I crack the seeds in a mill until they are broken into 1/3ds to 1/2s.  My guess would be to start at about a half teaspoon in a 1lb 12 oz can of 6 in 1.  1/2 teaspoonful is 1.2 gms by my measure so it would work out to about 0.15% by weight.  That's about 1 and 1/2 times the amount of the oregano as I throw and fennel is as potent as oregano once cracked but more compact.  

The amount of fennel in my sausage is 3 teaspoonsful in 10 pounds, this works out to be 0.15% based on the pork weight.  Some how that math worked out the same but the fennel expression in my sausage is too pronounced for a sauce.  so I guess about half of the 1/2 teaspoon would be more subdued, I'd add 1/4 teaspoon or about 0.08% to the sauce and crack it in my spice grinder.  Since fennel is a hard seed that takes time to exert its flavor, it would be difficult to taste it and tell if it was right immediately.  I'd need to wait a day or so to see how it permeates and adjust more if needed, I want to be on the low end initially.

Id love to hear from anybody who puts fennel in their sauce and as to what extent.

great idea BTB, thanks

Ron

Offline JConk007

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2011, 08:24:10 PM »
So I made a great sauce from 6 in 1 s today. Did not measure a thing. Just  based on past tests and tastes. Used the following till it tasted like I wanted.

2 CANS 6-in 1 tomatoes
1/4 #10  can bonta heavy w/ basil
1 can Cento Sanmazano tomatoes ( italian style )
1 can Fairway brand imported tomatoes both cans mostly deseeded and hand crushed.
Juice of those 2 cans drained + touch of H2O
ground black pepper 9-12 twists?
crushed red pepper several pinches.
1/3 package fresh basil
3 cloves fresh garlic minced  
Kosher salt, sugar
dried oregano, dried basil, onion salt, garlic powder
Penzey Pizza seasoning small scoop tbsp?

anyway it was by far the best NY style sauce I ever made and the crew also commented how tasty it was
I ended up with close to 4 qts. so even after 10 pies I have about 5 nice size containers left for the freezer YUMMY!
John
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 08:48:07 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline Moondance

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2011, 04:08:59 PM »
As a newbie myself, I'm glad this thread started and I hope it will get some more attention and postings.  I am just getting ready to start mixing my own sauces so I really appreciate the comments here.  Thanks to Bill also for leading me to this thread.  Keep em comin!

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Offline DonC

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2011, 01:00:42 PM »
Growing up in SW mich. in the 60's,pizza to me was Pizza Hut and the few independent pizza's around weren't very good.Then Mama Mortarano's opened in Watervliet and introduced me to the wonderful world of quality pizza.She moved to St. Joseph,Mi. and made the same wonderful pizza till she closed about 10 yrs ago(?).She used some kind of pepperoni that was in thicker rectangular "slabs" on the pie and her sauce had a sweet ingredient that I've been trying to find for yrs without success.I've used fennel in Swedish bread and tomato sauces,it's close but not it.I don't think I've tried anise,I'll have too try that soon,thanks.
 Are there some tomato types that could be that much sweeter in flavor than normal Romas? I'll have to try 6 in 1's when I finish my Redpack sauce.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 01:04:38 PM by DonC »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2011, 02:01:38 PM »
Don,
You will probably never go back to the red packs after you try the 6 in 1's.
Its amazing whats out there,that we may not have tried yet.The 6 in 1's are a base to start off with,and it has a very strong tomato smell and flavor.Its really nice to make into a sauce.
 :)

-Bill

Offline Ronzo

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2011, 02:16:27 PM »
Don,
You will probably never go back to the red packs after you try the 6 in 1's.
Its amazing whats out there,that we may not have tried yet.The 6 in 1's are a base to start off with,and it has a very strong tomato smell and flavor.Its really nice to make into a sauce.
 :)


The 6 in 1's are great. I loved them, but I've found a new love in the Stanislaus 7/11's
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Offline chickenparm

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2011, 02:35:33 PM »
Ron,
I want to try those as well.The tomato magic and others by stanislaus.I have to mail order them so thats gotta wait a few days.
 :)

-Bill

Offline DonC

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2011, 02:41:31 PM »
Don,
You will probably never go back to the red packs after you try the 6 in 1's.
Its amazing whats out there,that we may not have tried yet.The 6 in 1's are a base to start off with,and it has a very strong tomato smell and flavor.Its really nice to make into a sauce.
 :)


The 6 in 1's are great. I loved them, but I've found a new love in the Stanislaus 7/11's
Thanks for the recommendations
We've got a GFS and a StanzFS in the area,I'll bet I find one or both of these brands,I'll definitely be looking for them next time.The Redpack was fine for a base to add "stuff" to and for $4.99 @over 6lbs,a great price. But I think I liked the GFS PrimoGusto slightly better and was going to try something new next time anyway.
It's great to get help and advise from others experience on this forum.My pizza's are so much better as a direct result,can't wait to try one of these!!
Thanks again!!!

Offline Ronzo

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2011, 04:47:47 PM »
Ron,
I want to try those as well.The tomato magic and others by stanislaus.I have to mail order them so thats gotta wait a few days.
 :)


I have a membership at Restaurant Depot and it's the only place I've seen the Stanislaus brand locally. Fell in love with the 7/11s on my very first taste.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
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Offline BTB

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Re: 6 in 1 - 2 - 3 Pizza Sauce Recipes
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2011, 07:23:03 PM »
Growing up in SW mich. in the 60's,pizza to me was Pizza Hut and the few independent pizza's around weren't very good.Then Mama Mortarano's opened in Watervliet and introduced me to the wonderful world of quality pizza.She moved to St. Joseph,Mi. and made the same wonderful pizza till she closed about 10 yrs ago(?).She used some kind of pepperoni that was in thicker rectangular "slabs" on the pie and her sauce had a sweet ingredient that I've been trying to find for yrs without success.
DonC, you bring to mind some fond, old memories for me of some great pizzas in SW Michigan that are no longer around.  I, too, use to love Mama Mortorano's in Watervliet and watched her many times cutting the pizzas with those long special pizza sissors.  After she left town, we occasionally went to her ex-husband' place in Coloma, Papa Mortorano's, but it was never as good as his wife's pizza.  Mama Cupani's was good for many years, too, until she closed.  She made her own great pepperoni that was put on pizzas in clumps much like normal Italian sausage was.  To me her's was the best pepperoni in the world.

Now that area has no decent pizza.  And the PH there is terrible.  But with the new Indian Casino opening this summer between Watervliet and Hartford, there are many new food places and restaurants being started to get some of the passing business there.  Hopefully, a decent pizza place will be among them.

GFS in Benton Harbor has 6 in 1's, but in the larger cans, unfortunately.

                                                                                                        --BTB


 

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