Author Topic: Cake Yeast vs Dry - Amazing (Read 6371 times)

Mmmph · « **on:** February 07, 2011, 11:33:51 AM »

I've been following the Keste Clone thread in Neapolitan Style, and had already seen the video, on Slice, of Roberto Caporuscio making dough.

I finally got my hands on some cake yeast...and Wow! The feel of the dough, the smell, the bubbles, the structure, all superior to any dry yeast dough I've ever made. So easy to work with and the end product, baked in my Little Black Egg, was amazing. I must echo dellavecchia's sentiments from his initial post in the Keste Clone thread.

I made two batches of dough for 5 pies. One batch with the CY, and one batch with ADY. Both batches made within 30 minutes of each other. Both mixed, proofed, scaled, and divided similarly. There was no comparison in the finished product. My guests noticed the difference immediately, and commented profusely on it. The difference was stunning.

CY, where have you been all these years?

BTW, If you have a Great Harvest Bread store in your town, they have fresh yeast by the pound. I paid only $1.50/lb.

I feel like I have to relearn everything I thought I knew.

widespreadpizza · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2011, 12:43:39 PM »

I tend to agree with you, although there is someone who does not. Tom Lehman from the AIB. Here says that they have carefully tested all 3 forms of yeast and there is no difference in the final product. I just think he is wrong. -marc

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2011, 01:11:31 PM »

The few times I've tried cake yeast, I felt as though I could taste the difference in flavor compared to IDY but wasn't sure if it was just my imagination or not. Can you post some pictures of your pizza Mmmph. I'm in the process of building an LBE myself.

Chau

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2011, 01:20:44 PM »

While I still find this result counterintuitive, the person who opened my eyes to good pizza and whom I greatly respect would tell you the same thing.

Craig

andreguidon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2011, 04:25:12 PM »

Im in the middle of some tests also, but i also feel the difference specially with the spring, i feel that the pizza has a better spring on the oven, but i haven't concluded any thing yet, so ill let you guys know after...

scott123 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2011, 04:54:24 PM »

My cake yeast experience goes back to a time when I was still using entire packets of dried yeast (about 10 years ago), within that context, the cake yeast, used in proportional amounts, produced a night and day difference in spring.

Even with what I know now, I still believe that it's superior. As long as it's fresh. And that, to me, is the catch. You can't walk into a supermarket and buy a cube that's been on the shelf for weeks and expect it to perform well. You have to find a source with good turnover. For me, that's a local bakery, and the minimum I can buy is a 2 lb. block. Since it doesn't tend to last more than a week and a half and I only make pizza every couple weeks, that means I have to buy a 2 lb. block every time I make pizza. Last time I checked, I think a 2 lb. block was $4. There's no way I'm paying $4 for yeast every time I make pizza.

Should I ever find myself in a commercial setting, though, you better believe I'm going with cake yeast.

msheetrit · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2011, 04:59:24 PM »

here in israel you can easly find cake yeast in every supermarket in every corner, 50 gram cube cost about 1$ or litel less in other places.
on the other hand idy is hard to find because most poeple here use cy. and most of the poeple dont know what's idy, 4 months ago i dident knew.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2011, 05:09:37 PM »

I buy either red star or fleishmans in the refrigerated section of my local Stop and Shop, and have been for many months now. If kept in the foil, without any other coverings, it lasts for 4-5 weeks easily, sometimes longer in the fridge. The pizza I made yesterday used CY that was a month old, and it rose with the same vigor it did on day one. Sometimes the outer leading edge of the block will become dark brown - discard that portion when using. The yeast underneath will be fine.

John

dmaxdmax · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2011, 09:23:14 PM »

My great-grandmother measured cake yeast not in volume or weight but money. Her bread recipe called for 5 pennies of yeast and didn't change as the price changed. I didn't know her but my mom said she did everything by hand and feel. I guess when you bake bread every day for decades you get pretty good.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2011, 09:40:03 PM »

As I noted in item 3 in Reply 515 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg104559/topicseen.html#msg104559, Cook's Illustrated says that fresh yeast produces the most gas during fermentation.

Peter

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2011, 09:46:40 PM »

Quote from: dmaxdmax on February 07, 2011, 09:23:14 PM

Her bread recipe called for 5 pennies of yeast and didn't change as the price changed.

I just took longer to rise each year...

Pete-zza · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2011, 09:49:11 PM »

Quote from: Mmmph on February 07, 2011, 11:33:51 AM

I made two batches of dough for 5 pies. One batch with the CY, and one batch with ADY. Both batches made within 30 minutes of each other. Both mixed, proofed, scaled, and divided similarly. There was no comparison in the finished product. My guests noticed the difference immediately, and commented profusely on it. The difference was stunning.

Mmmph,

Did you adjust the amount of ADY in relation to the cake yeast so as to equalize the leavening power, and did you rehydrate the ADY in a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes. And did you adjust the hydration of the ADY dough to compensate for the fact that cake yeast has a water content of about 70%? And were the final dough weights for both batches the same, as well as the finished dough temperatures? Finally, did you use one of the dough calculating tools to come up with the final dough formulations?

Peter

Mmmph · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2011, 10:19:57 AM »

The most amazing aspect of this first experience with CY was how little I used. Geez, maybe 1/8 tsp for 1.33 Kg of dough? I used a 1/4 tsp measuring spoon and estimated half of that. I mixed the CY with room temp water and added 70% of the flour. About 4 minutes into mixing with my Electrolux N28 (roller and scraper), I added the salt and the remainder of the flour. I mixed for 4 more minutes. 24 hour room temp bulk rise (66 degrees), balled (5x260g) and refrigerated for 24 hours, 2 hour warm up to room temp again, then bake.

I repeated the same process with the half the amount of ADY, except I hydrated the ADY in 30g of warm water (108 degrees), then mixed.

I agree with Cook's Illustrated that CY produces more gas. The CY dough balls were much larger and puffier than the ADY doughballs, and the ADY balls had 40 minutes more room temp balled rising time because we ate them after the CY dough. CY just seems stronger and more potent...Strong like Bull!

@Chau; Sorry no Pics this time, as we were busy gawking at the pies coming out, talking about them and chowing down as fast as I could make them. When I ran out of CY dough, the difference was truly noticeable. Next time I get a weekend day above 60 degrees, I'll be doing it again, though. Good luck with your LBE.

I used jasonmolinari's LBE as my guide along with a little Villa Roma thrown in. I found jmolinari's post, with pics, on egullet

@Peter;
Did you adjust the amount of ADY in relation to the cake yeast so as to equalize the leavening power?
-Yes. Half ADY < fresh yeast. It was an estimate, as I don't have a scale to measure such small amounts. If anything, I guessed on the high side for the ADY.

and did you rehydrate the ADY in a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes
-Yes. 30g water (108 degrees). I wanted the smallest amount to dissolve the yeast, but not so much as to change the overall temp of the dough.

And did you adjust the hydration of the ADY dough to compensate for the fact that cake yeast has a water content of about 70%?
-No, as I used 1/8tsp of fresh yeast. I felt the water content was negligible

And were the final dough weights for both batches the same, as well as the finished dough temperatures?
-Weights were within 2g. I'll admit I didn't measure the finished temp. They both felt room temperature.

Finally, did you use one of the dough calculating tools to come up with the final dough formulations?
-Absolutely! The dough tools on this site are invaluable. I have a looseleaf binder full of recipe printouts from that webpage, with dates and notes on each recipe. I can go back through them and actually remember particular days/pies from the past.

I'm sold on CY, and with a now easily attainable supply, I'm not looking back.

Thanks to dbcurrie on Slice, who turned me on to Great Harvest Bread Company for CY.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2011, 10:29:11 AM »

Mmmph,

I am very impressed. It looks like you did everything by the book. And using the dough calculating tool should have kept the numbers in line for your experiments. Clearly you have been paying attention to what you have read on the subject.

I look forward to seeing if you can replicate your results, especially if you decide to do another comparison between the cake yeast and the ADY.

Peter

pizzaboyfan · « **Reply #14 on:** April 02, 2011, 02:39:43 PM »

You would think that finding fresh yeast in a major metropolitan area like Philadelphia would not be much of an issue, but after striking out in all attempts at a variety of markets, and getting a very blank look from the local Harvest Bakery franchise in Wayne, I went and ordered some from New York Bakery supply, and it arrived...from California.
I'm hoping to use it, tonight.
I thought I would use the dough calculator to find the equivalent amount of ADY.
When I plug in my .40% it shows my usual 1tsp or 4 grams of ADY per 1,000 grams of flour
When I change the type of yeast to cake yeast, I get the same 4 grams as the recipe amount, which while it will keep the same percentage by weight, leaves me suspecting that I am missing something.

I've tried my best to search and read all of the various threads on yeast and equivalents, and related charts , but I seem to keep coming back to the same dead end.

I am trying to find the answer to any one of these questions

1. How many grams of CY equals 1 tsp of ADY
2. Should I be using the same percentage of ADY vs CY in my recipe or do I need a different percentage to achieve the equivalent results
3 What percentage of CY would be the equivalent to my .40 percentage of ADY

Thanks in advance for any direction

Perry

Pete-zza · « **Reply #15 on:** April 02, 2011, 03:55:20 PM »

Perry,

If you are currently using ADY in a recipe and wish to substitute fresh yeast for it, you should use double the weight of the ADY. That is the same thing as doubling the baker's percent if you are using one of the dough calculating tools. For a handy yeast conversion table, I suggest that you take a look at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm.

Peter

msheetrit · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2011, 06:19:00 PM »

that the first time i hear (read) that cy has 70% water in it, peter you should wrote a book!
thats explaine why after i freez it and take out to room temp they melted to water. ( but mostly i use it fresh, i found its better this way)
this is the yeast that you can find at any supermarket here, its wraped in foil, i bought this a week ago. the price is less then 1$ for 50 gram cube.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2011, 06:42:52 PM »

Quote from: msheetrit on April 02, 2011, 06:19:00 PM

peter you should wrote a book!

Michael,

I already have. It's called 14,318 posts, including this one

.

Peter

pizzaboyfan · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2011, 06:43:48 PM »

Peter,
The artisan chart was one of the refereces I used, but I thought 6.8 grams = tsp. of ADY seemed like a lot more than I had read was used in a few of the threads.
I'm inclined to use your suggestion, and just double the weight, and see what comes out of the oven.
I just might be over thinking this, and too concerned about an extra gram or so..

My readings and bakings seem to indicate that it's best to use the least amount of yeast to do the job.
Thanks,
Perry

JConk007 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2011, 07:10:46 PM »

PBoy,
Make something please ! Can you weigh a tsp of ADY covert to Cake with the chart? (- a smidgen) I have the same yeast from them but have not had a chance to use it yet . Did share and friend used last night waiting to hear. probably use it next week. You have Nothing to loose except some flour. I used like triple the yeast amount by accident from a post a while back and still pulled it off, just go for it ! adjust next time based on what happens.
Good luck
John