Re-Engineering A16 pizza in SF

[Pete-zza]

I wasn’t quite sure where to report on my latest Caputo pie. On the one hand, the recipe I used for today’s pie was a modification of the “giotto” A16 recipe, and it also included dairy whey, which in itself has become a topic of interest. On the other hand, today’s pie used a naturally-leavened dough and the dough was subjected to an approximately 10-hour room-temperature fermentation. No commercial yeast and no refrigeration. Since I started with the giotto A16 recipe, I concluded that the scale tipped more to the A16 side and, so, I will report my results here for whatever it is worth.

In preparation for tonight’s pizza, I started with the preferment. Last night, I took a small amount of one of my semi-liquid natural preferments directly from the refrigerator and fed it with a small amount of flour and warm water. The starting amount of the preferment was about a quarter of a cup and the amount of flour and water I added to it about doubled its volume. I put the preferment on my kitchen counter late last night (covered) and left it there until this morning, a period of about 8-9 hours. I then proceeded to incorporate a part of the refreshed/ripened preferment into the giotto A16 recipe. For the amount to use, I decided upon 20% of the weight of flour, the same percent I have used before in similar experiments with other doughs. The recipe itself was otherwise the same as the yesterday’s Caputo dough that I reported on except to the extent that I found it necessary to adjust the amounts of the ingredients to accommodate the inclusion of the preferment. The final recipe was as follows (together with baker’s percents):

100%, Caputo 00 pizzeria flour, 6.68 oz. (1 1/2 c plus 1 T.)
57.3%, Water, 3.83 oz. (about 1/2 c.)
2.4%, Sea salt, 0.16 oz. (between 3/4 and 7/8 t.)
1.79%, Extra-virgin olive oil, 0.12 oz. (a bit less than 3/4 t.)
3%, Dairy whey, 0.20 oz. (a bit more than 1 t.)
20%, Natural preferment, 1.34 oz. (about 2 1/2 T.)
Dough ball weight = 12.32 oz. (for one 13-inch pizza)
Finished dough temperature = 79 degrees F.
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.093

The dough was prepared in the same way as yesterday’s dough but for the substitution of the natural preferment for the commercial yeast (IDY). Since the preferment was in semi-liquid form, I did not proof it as I did the IDY. Once the dough was kneaded into a smooth, elastic ball, I placed it in a covered plastic container and set it on my kitchen counter top to ferment. Very little happened for the first few hours but then the dough started to gradually expand. After about 6 hours, it had risen in volume by about fifty percent. I punched the dough ball down, reshaped it into a new ball shape, and placed it back into its container for the final few hours. After a total elapsed time of about 10 hours, the dough ball had about doubled in volume. I concluded that it was time to shape the dough ball into a skin.

The dough handled extremely well. In fact, it handled better than yesterday’s dough. It had just the right balance between elasticity and extensibility. And, unlike yesterday’s dough, it did not exhibit the pronounced bubbling propensity. I had no problem whatsoever in shaping and stretching the dough out to 13 inches and, in fact, could have gone even further. Again, I wonder whether the dairy whey is a contributory factor to the fine handling qualities of the doughs in which I have incorporated it.

I dressed the 13-inch skin in Margherita style and baked the pizza on a pizza stone that had been placed on the bottom oven rack and preheated for about an hour at around 500-550 degrees F. I was particularly interested to see if the crust would brown as quickly as yesterday’s pizza. After about 5 minutes, I saw that the top crust had some browning but not as much as yesterday. So I moved the pizza to the top oven rack and let the pizza bake for a bit less than a minute under the broiler element, which I had turned on about four minutes into the bake cycle.

The finished pizza was excellent. It had a normal rim (cornicione) and it was not bready. The crust was chewy yet tender, with a bit of crisp at the rim. The flavor of the crust was nice but not overwhelming--maybe not quite as flavorful as yesterday’s crust, which had had the benefit of about 3-day’s worth of refrigeration of the dough, but still quite nice. I would say that the overall textural quality of yesterday’s crust may have been a bit better than today’s, yet today’s pizza had attributes that made it highly appealing in its own right. I would be completely happy with either. In fact, I like having both recipes in my portfolio.

I like to learn from my efforts, and today I learned that it is possible to make a same-day, room-temperature fermented Caputo 00 dough leavened only with a natural preferment and produce a high-quality product. Again, the use of the dairy whey seems effective. I might increase the amount used for my next attempt at a same-day room-temperature fermented dough, but that would be about it. I also continue to believe that the dairy whey may be a contributing factor to the good dough handling characteristics I have been getting in those doughs in which I have incorporated it. After today’s experiment, judging from the rate that the dough expanded over the roughly 10-hour period, I also believe that it is possible to reduce the amount of preferment I used and extend the fermentation/ripening period by several more hours. That should contribute a bit more to the flavor of the crust.

The photos below show the finished product.

Peter

[friz78]

The wife and kids are out of town and tonight when I got home I had not idea what to eat for dinner.  I opened the refrigerator, looked inside, and way in the back I noticed two Caputo pizza doughs sitting in ziplock bags.  I had made these doughs over a week ago and totally forgot that they were still in my refrigerator.  So I said, "what the heck" and pulled them out and decided to experiment with dough that had an EIGHT DAY REFRIGERATION/RETARDATION TIME!!

To say I was skeptical to begin this process would be an understatement.  When I took the dough out of the bags, I really didn't notice much difference than past doughs.  After a one hour counter rise, I shaped the dough.  It was very extensible, but extremely simple to shape.  As a matter of fact, I didn't even need to take this dough off the bench to shape it.  It was a bit too extensible but had wonderful bubbling after it was stretched.  I dressed the dough round and placed it in the oven.  The recipe was the identical one that I used for my last A16 dough that included a same day rise.  Actually, this was the same dough, but I just refrigerated a few dough balls that I didn't use for the same day rise.

The results of this pizza were excellent.  Great crisp, chew and texture.  My guess would be that this dough resembled the taste and texture of dough where a preferment or starter would normally be used.  However, since I have never used a starter, I can't say for sure if this is the case.  There were no noticeable signs of over fermentation or any problems whatsoever.  The big difference was a stronger flavor in the dough and a bit more chew as well.  I have posted a few pictures to share with everyone below.
Friz

[friz78]

pic 1

[friz78]

pic 2

[friz78]

pic 3

[giotto]

On Bob's Red Mill version of dry whey at Whole Foods, it describes the whey as providing a "shortening effect" on the dough, which suggests a softening effect.

The use of dry buttermilk (1 TBL) and milk is a common way to give the same results that Pete-zza describes with dry whey.  This is common practice for softening and browning.  I've had positive results and know a small pro pizzeria that uses it very successfully in creating his American style texture with a semi high protein flour.

I noticed that many of the pro doughs that I've worked with are not at all bubbly, and A16's dough does not show signs of it either.  I've needed to use 1 tsp of salt and less than 1/8 tsp of IDY (or 1/8 tsp of ADY) to avoid it.

I am finding that I can easily tame the Caputo with whey vs. milk vs. shortening vs. oils.  BUT without the char taste and well defined look, it takes on a texture of American bread-like textures that exist around here.  This sort of coincides with a trip that I just took.

On Tuesday, for the first time, I found that a very hot wood fired oven with Caputo-based dough does not guarantee a Neapolitan look to it any more than our ovens.  It was a NY pizzeria, and their pizzas were certainly a soft texture (a bit too much).  As with our crusts, it had that basic brown color to it, rather than the unique tannish, almost grey-like, black-spotted look that stands out as Neapolitan.  Without the char taste, I felt like they were wasting their money (Amici's in Mountain View blows them away with their incredible char taste that they miraculously achieve with all-purpose flour).  Caputo cost them almost $20, opposed to the usual $8 of other 50 lb flours.  The cornicione was a nice medium size.  They don't use sugar; but they admitted to using a small portion of olive oil, and they prefer fresh yeast.  Delayed fermentation is used for similar reasons to Christophe at A16, who was once noted as saying that a 3 day dough provided a better taste than a 2 day dough. 

At A16, I think only w-f are available for lunch.  Be sure to ask for crispy-- I have personally heard recently 3 complaints that it was too bready and that lack of heat in the oven seemed to be the problem.  I worry sometimes that Americans have such a propensity for bready pizza that this is often catered to.  I have never eaten at dinner and I hope you get his time then.  THE only questions that I'm interested in at this stage of the game are:

1) If you were to use a home oven at 550F, what kind of texture AND issues would you suspect with your dough and what would you do different?  I know one of his pizzaiolos expects to use a grill at home to get more of a Neapolitan look as I've tried to do with my fired stove.

2) What temp is his refrigeration (does he vary it)?

3) CAN you get hold of one of his doughs to test in your home oven?  The goal is to merely see what can be achieved with the real thing at home.   I would love to see the results you guys get at home with his exact dough.  I have not had a chance to do this.  I would love to hear that it sucks at home, just as ours did before we softened it.  That would leave the oven as the most CRITICAL reason that we can't get the tan/black look and char taste which is personally very important to me.

Someone hinted that he may know of this thread already; but I'm not sure if that's the case. 

[giotto]

I wanted to expand a bit on my experience yesterday.  It was actually a trip down memory lane, with results similar to Reinhart's experience when he visited his once favorite pizzeria after being armed with far more experience from his travels.

When I drove up to the pizzeria in Redwood City, its rectangular small building had that same flare as I remembered.  It's located in a gnarly part of town, just on the opposite side of the railroad tracks from Oracle's Headquarters (which seems more in India these days than CA).  The same topless bar exists on the other side of the street, with free peaks still available.  Hmmm... Maybe while I'm here... Nah, some things are probably best left to one's imagination.  Just up the street is a Mazzeratti dealership (you'll have to excuse my spelling on this one), along with homes where guys like Willy Mays played baseball in his backyard at a later age.  I think they start around $10 million or so, about $ 1/2 mil per 1,000 sq ft of living space. 

The inside interior of this pizzeria had not changed. It was quaint as ever with that same authentic Italian color to it, and the owner's pride was written all over it.  YET, my instincts told me that it had changed owners.  I recognized the staff member who greeted me.  But unless the owner was in his death bed, he would have been here.  Sure enough, it had changed over.  The same 3 wood fired ovens existed.  I now recognized the difference with the pit in the middle though.  The ovens on the left and right were home made.  BUT the broiler in the middle was the same well know vendor that places like Memphis Minnies in the city use for their smokin' BBQ.  Here, it was used for their rotisserie chickens. 

I had never noticed it before; but margherita was listed first.  The simple menu had not changed.  I just knew things that I didn't know before.  Like the fact that baby back ribs listed toward the bottom could not possibly be smoked in such a hot oven.  I asked about the ribs and was told that one of the ovens was used... Couldn't be, there had to be more to it.  "What kind of flour do you use?"  There just ain't nothing like the Sound of Silence.  Hmmm... either exit left or change strategy (having worked for Oracle at one time, I knew these crossroads quite well). I mentioned my past, was asked a few questions to verify my presence, and the pearly white gates opened.  I asked about the flour again in a slightly less pathetic way.  I was told that it cost $20 opposed to the usual $8 that other places used.  I didn't need Oracle's software to set off that trigger.  Now I was down to 2 flours.  Giusto's hey?  Nope.  You use Caputo, I literally exclaimed?  Now I was met with that look, you know the one that says "we are now one."  Yes, I was told, Caputo has always been worth the difference to them...  Well, it was good to know that part of my past was met with good taste.

I continued to look at the menu. If I didn't know this place, I would have ordered the margherita pizza.  But I was here to re-acquaint myself to the past-- so I ordered a pepperoni.  I just had to return to those Baby Backs for a second.  "With this hot of an oven, how can you possibly produce baby backs without running them low and slow?"  Unbelievable.  They use a simple slow smoker in the back, which appeared less sophisticated than my own slow smoker, and then transferred it to one of the ovens to finish it off.  As I waited for my change of $12, I realized that it is absolutely amazing what tiny little secrets are out there, just waiting to be uncovered... but it ain't gonna happen unless you can first show signs that you can answer your own questions.  I stuffed the bills in my shirt.

I watched him make the pizza.  NO visible bubbles.  "How do you do that, you know, the no bubbles?"  I was told they only use 2 oz of fresh yeast for the entire bag.  Let me see, that's about 4 TBL per 800+ oz, which is about... okay that would be 12 tsp divided by 800, giving me around .015 per oz of flour, or .15 tsp per 10 oz of flour...  Yep, that's about where I'm at these days.  I watched him use his fingers to create the cornicone, which was perfect when it came out of the oven-- not too big, not too small, very similar to the picture you'll find on the front page of Reinhart's American Pie.  Why fresh yeast.  Because they don't like the way dry comes out.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It came on a big ol' plate and for a NY it looked wonderful.  BUT, something was terribly wrong. 

They said that their oven was much hotter than what I'd find in a 600F oven found at other pro pizzerias.  And I've certainly witnessed A16's oven down to the 700F arena.  Same is true with Amici's.  And it was ready in about the same time as the others.   YET, it didn't have any similarity to the color of a Neapolitan, nor did it have that incredible char taste of Amici's in Mountain View.  It took on a simpler browning color that we all can produce in our home ovens.

It wasn't the exact texture of Milan's yummy American style in Mountain View; nor was it quite the same as the thicker American style of Sarpino's; and even though it looks similar to another Pronto's NY pizzeria in Santa Clara county, which utilizes a Baker's Pride oven and the same flour with lower gluten than I usually employ (Fisher/Pendleton), it's bread like texture is slightly different.  So all in all, this quaint Pronto's with all its pride seems slightly fresher than other bread-like textures that I have had.  But like the Ferraris and Mazzeratti's down the street, it's no longer the fave I once remembered.  I demand that incredible char when I go out for NY style, and I prefer my own more hollow texture with this style as well.  If I want a more bread-like interior, there's so much more out there.  When Tyler Florence says "Get out there and Eat America," he's singing to the choir with me.  But it's tough when the past gets surpassed sometimes, and you realize that there is no one silver bullet pizza out there for your taste buds.  I can't wait to hit Bianco's next though-- hopefully my buddy in Phoenix won't burst my bubble and tell me that it tastes like charred pita bread before I get there.

[Les]

I wasn’t quite sure where to report on my latest Caputo pie. On the one hand, the recipe I used for today’s pie was a modification of the “giotto” A16 recipe, and it also included dairy whey, which in itself has become a topic of interest. On the other hand, today’s pie used a naturally-leavened dough and the dough was subjected to an approximately 10-hour room-temperature fermentation. No commercial yeast and no refrigeration.

I have been planning to attempt something similar to this recipe for this weekend, except I'll be using either KASL or KA's Artisan flour since that's all I have right now (any suggestions?), and I want to retard it in the fridge from Wednesday afternoon until Saturday afternoon.  But I have a few questions.

You mentioned using semi-liquid preferment.  Is that how you store it?  I was under the impression it should be stored "dry," something like the consistancy of pizza dough.

I have found I can get my preferment to room temperature with about 10 seconds in the microwave.  Is there any risk to that?

Is there a way to tell if your preferment is still active?  I worry I'm going to make dough with dead preferment.

I was thinking of letting the dough rise once at room temperature today, punching it down, and then leaving it in the fridge undisturbed until Saturday when I'm ready to use it.  What do you think of that?

[Pete-zza]

Les,

I think your experiment will be an interesting one. Because you will be using a different flour, I can't say what to expect but I think you should be able to make a decent pizza.

As between the two flours, I would go with the KA Artisan flour because it is closer in protein content (11.3%) to the Caputo 00 pizzeria flour. However, since the Artisan flour has a higher hydration range than the Caputo 00 flour, you may have to increase the amount of water used. I would put whatever amount of water you decide to start with into your mixer bowl, dissolve the salt in it, add the preferment, and gradually add the flour (with the dairy whey mixed in) and finally the oil. As you do the mixing, you should be able to see if more water is needed.

On your question about preferments, I have both semi-liquid and solid forms. I use both for pizza dough making, but the semi-liquid form may be more useful for bread making than the more solid form. I believe pizzanapoletana uses the more liquid form for breadmaking and the more solid form for pizzas. The more solid form is more akin to "old dough" or pate fermentee. Quite often the more solid form has a hydration percent similar to the dough into which it is to be incorporated, making it easier to use and minimize adjusting the amounts of flour and water. When I plan to use the more liquid form, I take it out of the refrigerator, feed it with flour and warm water, and let it set for several hours (4 to 6 hours, usually). I try to refresh all my starters within 3 days. I have never microwaved any starter, so I have no opinion on that. I wouldn't think that 10 seconds would harm the starter if there is a fair amount of it, and if you have not detected any harm from doing so, then it may be OK to do.

You will know if a starter is alive if you feed it with flour and warm water and it starts to form bubbles. Depending on the dormancy of your starter, this may start to happen within minutes (for an active and well maintained starter) or within hours (for a starter that isn't used often or is not regularly refreshed). Beyond that, you may have to "wash" the starter to revitalize it, if such is possible. It's hard to kill a starter under normal circumstances, but it may take some work to revive one that has not been properly maintained.

I don't see any harm in letting the dough rise before refrigerating it, although you may find that it may take many hours for the dough to rise and there may not be much to punch down. It may be better to go directly to the refrigerator. I have done it this way with the Lehmann dough. If you use the dairy whey, I think you should be able to go to Saturday before using the dough. Just be sure to let the dough come to room temperature long enough before using, maybe 2-3 hours or so.

I will be curious to see how your experiment works out and whether the finished pizza compares favorably with a Caputo 00 pizza.

Peter

[giotto]

Reinhart once said that after 2 weeks, mother starters are bragging rights.  They constantly need to be fed with new flour to keep their size and results.

If you work with a wet preferment, than you are either steering toward a wetter version of the dough or you are going to end up adding more flour to re-create the original texture-- in either case, you are changing the dynamics of the original formula and it is not the preferment that is necessarily giving you the end results, but either the wetter dough or the dilution of the original ingredients that were based on the initial expectations of flour.  Therefore, if a better end result does occur under these conditions, then the original formula should be adjusted to account for the changes when not working with a wet preferment.

In the event that the preferment is dry, then the results we saw earlier with a week old dough demonstrates the effectiveness of additional aging in general.  I too have accidentally found a week old dough in my refrigerator, which starts to form sort of a sponge in itself, and yet can be used as is with less added flour and some great results. 

[Pete-zza]

giotto,

You make some valid points. It is indeed more difficult working with wet preferments. It is possible to make adjustments to a basic recipe to account for the hydration of the preferment, but most of the time you don't know what it is because the way we refresh preferments (at least the way I do) is imprecise. I use a baker's percent figure for the preferment when I use either a wet or dry form and that, of course, requires adjustments to the amounts of other ingredients used, especially if you try to keep the weight of the resultant dough ball the same--to achieve the same size (diameter) pizza. I perhaps tend more to using wet preferments because that is how I got started when I became interested in sourdough breadmaking. But I have experimented with  both wet and dry in several recipes, using 00 flours and high-gluten flour, with good results. Ultimately, when you get the results you like and can reproduce them, you end up with additional recipes for your collection.

Peter

[giotto]

Pete-zza:

I agree.  I began with wet preferments as well and maybe that is why I have had better results with them.  They are easy to feed; but like you say, the amount of flour added can vary.  If the results are better for some in the end, than we can try less % of ingredients when not working with a wet preferment.  Recently, I did this with a couple of ingredients, namely yeast and oil, as a result of the great experiments that have occurred.

[Pete-zza]

The photo below is of my most recent Caputo 00 pie, based on the use of a preferment. Since I don't want to steer this thread in a direction away from its original objective of reverse engineering the A16 Caputo 00 dough, I will be soon reporting the details of tonight's pie in the Caputo 00/Caputo 00 Biga thread.

However, what I wanted to show tonight with the photo below is the result of another approach I tried today in an effort to achieve improved coloration in a Caputo 00 crust. This time, I did not use dairy whey. Instead, I intentionally tried to damage the Caputo 00 flour I used in my recipe--to increase the amount of starch damage in the flour--and I added a diastatic malt to increase the amylase enzymatic activity by working on the increased damaged starch molecules. What I hoped to achieve by this method was to increase the amount of residual sugar in the dough, that is, the amount of sugar in excess of what the yeast needs to feed on, so that the residual sugar would be available to provide browning in the crust. I wasn't sure whether I could succeed in damaging the starch molecules in the Caputo 00 flour (I had proposed to run the flour through my food processor at high speed), but in an exchange with Tom Lehmann at the PMQ forum, he indicated that he thought I could do it. He also proposed an alternative approach, which I may consider also at a future time. (For those interested in this sort of thing, see http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/read/20279).

Tonight's pizza was baked in the same way as the last one. There was some browning while the pizza baked on the pizza stone, but not at the level I was seeking. So I placed the pizza under the broiler element for about one minute. The crust browned up almost immediately. I am not certain I am onto something with today's approach, but I will say that tonight's crust was one of the finest 00 crusts--both texture-wise and flavor-wise--I have ever made. As with any first time success, more work will be required to prove out its reproducibility.

Peter

[giotto]

I've been trying some different variations lately in an effort to soften the Caputo flour, without making it quite so bread-like.  With Pete-zza's positive experiences with dry whey, and my own past methods to soften tougher crusts, I tried the following variations with the Caputo flour:

1) Non-hydrogenated oil (palm oil) + dry whey.  Heat on a stone.
2) Non-hydrogenated oil + sugar. Heat on a stone.
3) Dry whey only.  Return to the flexibility of a screen.

#3 was the proven winner.  This, however, is a cross between Neapolitan and NY. 

I felt a dire need to move the pizza around the oven.  SO I used a screen.  I have 5 settings in broiler, so I started with the 2nd to the highest level.  Within 15 minutes, my oven could easily be set to 550F (an approach suggested by Bianco in his classes).  I stretched the dough to just over 14" and placed parchment paper over the center of the thin portion of the dough to prevent scorching.  I then set it on the 2nd to the top rack, no toppings.  After a couple of minutes, I received intermitten dark spots along the cornicione with an initial growth along the outer edge.

I removed the pizza and put on the toppings.  Then moved it to the 2nd to the bottom and let it run for just under 4 minutes.  Then put it back on broiler for a couple of seconds.  A friend and I immediately noticed that the crust was very light in weight.
(https://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/neo-ny-slice2a.JPG)

I've been reading that some Neapolitan pizzas rely on a less strained sauce than NY.  This time I used a thicker than usual sauce, which I diluted a bit with olive oil and water (Cento instead of ITALBRAND).  I noticed also that the thicker sauce in my last place reported (Redwood City) never went through the bottom, which has occurred at A16.  This proved effective here.  I even added a small portion of red onions, grilled bell peppers, thin slices of pepperoni and slices of garlic and olives in the center, without an issue to the crust. 

The cornicione was right on... about a medium size, with a nice light texture.  The blur shields the open texture.  But the slice on the pan shows it.
(https://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/neo-ny-slice.JPG)

I received next to no bubbles, very negligible indeed, after 4 days in the refrigerator.  The color was outstanding with a slight tannish color.  I had stretched it within 40 minutes of taking it out of the refrigerator.  I incorporated less than 1/8 tsp of Active yeast, 1 TBL of Bob's Red Mill dry whey and 1 tsp of salt for just under 10 oz of flour. The liquid was right at 57%, since oil was not used this time. 
(https://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/neo-ny.JPG)

Downsides?  Well, it had a bit of a pull to it, which is sort of a NY thing for me.  Many try to attain it.  With the slight increase in protein that dry whey will provide, this was to be expected.   Just after the cornicione it was a bit thicker than it should have been for about 1 inch, then it was perfectly slender-- so I'll cut down the amount of dough a bit.  I have found that oil in small amounts can deaden crust.  I need to think about my next variation if I want to reduce the toughness just a bit.  Otherwise, this was a very nice cross.

[Pete-zza]

giotto,

Very nice job. I think we are moving the ball down the field and getting closer to the goal. I like and respect the creativity you have been applying to the task at hand. And not taking no for an answer.

Did you experience the same balance of elasticity/extensibilty of the dough as I did? Every one of the doughs I made with the whey had it.

Peter

[giotto]

Pete-zza:

Thank you... I certainly feel like that guy who needs to walk off the field at times saying "I've had it."  The variations you and others have provided have made this a real combinative event.  So after a play or two, I'm ready to get back into the game.   

The extensibility (stretch) vs. elasticity (pull back) has been dependent as well on how much I handle the dough during refrigeration.  In general, the closer in time that dough is kneaded to when it will be stretched, the greater the effect on it's pull back or elasticity.  If its kneaded or just folded under minutes before stretching, even the most taffy-like extensible dough will suddenly give pull back. In any case, I don't always find a correlation between elasticity of a dough and the final pull structure of the crust.

This time, I placed each dough separately in bags within an uncovered stainless steel container with no intervention.  Once I removed this one from the bag, I lightly floured it, pushed it down with my palm a few places to form a small circle, then set it aside with a towel for 45 minutes.  Not much pull back during stretching.  At more of a room temp, I would have experienced even less pull back.

In the past, even before A16, I have pushed it down while in the refrigerator, which required me to re-fold the sides under to tighten the dough (this dough is very accomodating).  Since I usually cut the dough with this technique just before stretching it, I re-form it before setting it aside, and then push it down after room temp.  This has created more elasticity or pull back.  In general, 1 tsp of salt is usually plenty for 10 oz of flour; but seems minimal with this flour to create a natural pull back. Since that's 580 mg of sodium per 1/4 pizza for crust alone, I don't like going much higher.

What amazes me is that this flour has never torn, despite minimal kneading.  The more days in the refrigerator, the more the hydration starts to give it a sponge type look. I first bring it together with a dough hook at #1 on my classic kitchenaid, squeeze it together, prevent false impressions of dryness by letting it sit for a couple of minutes before gauging dryness (I have a spray bottle on standby, 1 squirt can do it), and follow with minimal hand kneading.  This flour really soaks up the water, so I need to be careful.  At times, I re-introduce the dough to the dough hook for another minute.  From start to finish, I'm done in 5 - 6 minutes. 

[giotto]

I accidentally touched the crust against the broiler heating element... looked like a smoke ring from my Uncle's peace pipe.  Coool.  So with pizza on peel outside oven, I touched another spot, then another... For Neapolitan, I like the fewer and far between as seen on left side:
(https://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/broiler-marks.JPG)

I need to darken a bit.  But not too far from these sitting on a shelve in Italy...
(https://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/Italy.jpg)

Then there's my marks when sitting on stone:
(https://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/stone-marks.JPG)

[JF_Aidan_Pryde]

Hi everyone,

I had the pleasure of visiting San Francisco recently and I brought back some data for this marvelous project.

Pizza I had at A16:
(http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~jwan584/A16.jpg)

It was great.

And I also have...
a video!
http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~jwan584/A16.MPG
It's 11MB and I don't know how long it'll stay up, so get it while it lasts!

Enjoy everyone.
-James.

ps. I love San Fran.

[JimBob]

Thanks for the movie!!!!

[Bill/SFNM]

What a valuable movie! Thanks! There is no way my Caputo dough could be moved around so easily with so little bench flour. And they way he pulls the pie onto the the metal peel! I think I'll start reducing the water in my dough little by little and see what happens.

Bill/SFNM