Author Topic: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!  (Read 38082 times)

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Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #175 on: January 31, 2014, 12:27:57 PM »
No, you will not.  At 47% you have plenty of hydration for this style.

The Semolina will have a nice effect, you will have the same crispy texture on first bite, but a lighter chew.  It breaks up much faster and is more delicate after first bite.  Its a great addition to this style.  If you want a richer flavor and more crisp, you can move to a 48hr cold ferment (As you are now doing i think).  A good idea to reduce yeast for that duration, I use .375 for 48 hour.  There is a substantial flavor impact moving to 48 (if you want to wait that long).   Get the Dough out of the mixer at 75-80, ball it up and right into the fridge w/no counter warmup.  There are all sorts of things you can do with this recipe, but doing one thing at a time works best - like adding the Semolina to get the texture and bit you are looking for.  I think 10% is perfect.

An example of those are :

Bumping salt up to 1.5 to 1.75
Reducing IDY for longer ferment
Moving to 475 for Parbake + Cook time
Using a light coating of Crisco Butter flavor shortening in the Pan or non butter flavor
Using a good pure OO in the dough (for a little extra flavor)
Laminating and re-rolling
Eliminating the Fridge time
Applying cheese first, then sauce then more cheese (mega crispy)

Everyone has opinions, these are just a few of mine.  I'm making this style tonight and it's my favorite.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #176 on: January 31, 2014, 02:28:59 PM »
I remember the crust from the mid 60's as having a delicate bite, almost like biting into air. It was crispy but had a very easy bite, and did not fill you up.
I believe you have a good grasp of this once great pizza that they used to make. I am watching you closely Nick and am hoping for your success...I think you will do it man!  :chef:

I liked what pizzagarage said about lightly oiling the cutter pan. I breifly worked a PH back in the day and remember all the pans would be slightly greasy from all the previous bakes.
Also, I really like that you are now moving away from par baking the crust. It should not be necessary, even in a home oven, if one can just get the dough figured out/right.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #177 on: January 31, 2014, 04:12:32 PM »
Thanks for the tips guys! I will try these on my next attempt. I just got home from a place called New York Pizza. I've been wanting to go there for along time, they have been in business for 40 years. They sell slices and 16" pies. I ordered the 16 incher with sausage and shrooms. It was the best pizza my date and I have ever eaten. I will post pics and a description in the New York thread. Of course I live in Tulsa and have never had an authentic NY pie, so hopefully this is close.

Offline JohnnyQuest

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #178 on: March 12, 2015, 09:13:24 PM »
This is a fantastic thread!  I'd love to know what your doing with your cracker crusts these days Nick, I'm sure others would too.   

Offline jvp123

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #179 on: March 13, 2015, 12:46:55 AM »
 ^^^
Jeff

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #180 on: March 13, 2015, 06:34:00 PM »
  I need to make a cracker again. I needed a break, I was not progressing like I wanted. I've been making other styles of pies. Though, I have been doing research on crackers, and I am ready to take the plunge. So in the near future, I will be making some. Got some new ideas from friends on the  forum.

Offline JohnnyQuest

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #181 on: March 14, 2015, 10:42:21 AM »
Thanks Nick, sounds good.  Can you clarify on thing for me?  Your Lehman calculations on page 1 of this post have no sugar or salt.   I've seen different numbers throughout.  Maybe I missed it, but if you get a chance, can you update the recipe with those in the amount you found that worked best?

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #182 on: March 14, 2015, 02:47:31 PM »
  Here's the calculations. A note.... The thickness factor is .1, but in reality it's about.07 TF. The reason is, I roll the skin out to about 20 inches or so. I make it that size, because I don't want any rough edges. I trim the final skin size so it will overlap the top of my cutter pan, and then I can use a rolling pin to cut the skin to form the top edge of the skin. The finished skin is about as thick as a credit card. I included salt in this formulation. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 02:53:15 PM by nick57 »

Offline JohnnyQuest

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #183 on: March 14, 2015, 08:33:46 PM »
Thanks again Nick, greatly appreciated.


Offline Packer Pizza Guy

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #184 on: April 06, 2015, 08:08:52 AM »
Without weighing everything what is the recipe?i want to perfect my pizza making skills. Do you use bread flour? Any hello would be appreciated.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #185 on: April 06, 2015, 09:24:21 AM »
  First rule I learned on the forum, weigh the ingredients. There are too many variables when using volume measurements. Here is what King Arthur Flours says on the subject.

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/measuring.html

Even using their methods you can still get inconsistent weights, sometimes 10 to 20% off. If you want to make consistent pies you need to get a scale and weigh the flour. I used KABF for these pies. It has been recommended to use a higher protein flour like KASL.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #186 on: August 02, 2015, 06:45:25 PM »
 It's been quite a while since my last cracker. Threw caution to the wind and tried some new ideas I had been pondering. Used my new KA food processor to make the dough. I used KASL flour this time. I lowered the hydration to 42%. Instead of corn oil, I used 3 tablespoons of Crisco, which I cut into the flour with the processor. I added a teaspoon of sugar to improve browning. Last but not least, 1/2 gram of DMP. I let the dough sit in the fridge for 24 hours. I par baked the crust at 550 degrees, then let it cool down before topping. I finished the pie on the stone for 5 more minutes.
  This try was a lot closer to the PH style I have been trying to achieve. It was almost like a saltine, but a little more substantial. I think the DMP and the sugar helped the browning of the crust. The bottom looked more like my typical NY style pies. It was very crispy and had a very light bite. I used 1/3 of a teaspoon of IDY instead of 1/4. The dough rose a little more than usual. My next try I will stick to a 1/4 teaspoon. I think I am getting closer, and this may be my best cracker, or at least one of my best.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 06:55:29 PM by nick57 »

Offline jvp123

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #187 on: August 02, 2015, 07:15:55 PM »
WOW Nick looks great!  I'd love to have another go at cracker style.  I really enjoy this type of pizza. 

There's only so many pizzas one can make though ha ha and I've been working on my NY style (and NP).
Jeff

Offline HBolte

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #188 on: August 02, 2015, 07:43:11 PM »
Looks great Nick! What was the flour weight?
Hans

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #189 on: August 02, 2015, 08:09:47 PM »
Here is the recipe....
Flour   373 grams
water  157 grams
IDY     1/3 teaspoon
salt     1 teaspoon
sugar  1 teaspoon
DMP    .5 grams

   I rolled the skin out to 20 inches, then draped it over a 14.5" cutter pan. It was almost paper thin. I then used the rolling pin on the edge of the pan to trim the skin. I par baked the skin in the pan. The topped skin finished cooking directly on the stone. Even after the pie sat for 20 minutes, the crust was still crispy. I topped the pie with 6oz of sauce, 5oz of whole milk mozz, and 6oz of Premio mild italian sausage. Should have added some crushed fennel to the sausage, that would have been the bomb for sure.   

Offline norma427

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #190 on: August 02, 2015, 10:01:29 PM »
Nick,

Great looking cracker style pie!  :pizza:

Norma

Offline HBolte

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #191 on: August 02, 2015, 10:10:22 PM »
Here is the recipe....
Flour   373 grams
water  157 grams
IDY     1/3 teaspoon
salt     1 teaspoon
sugar  1 teaspoon
DMP    .5 grams

   I rolled the skin out to 20 inches, then draped it over a 14.5" cutter pan. It was almost paper thin. I then used the rolling pin on the edge of the pan to trim the skin. I par baked the skin in the pan. The topped skin finished cooking directly on the stone. Even after the pie sat for 20 minutes, the crust was still crispy. I topped the pie with 6oz of sauce, 5oz of whole milk mozz, and 6oz of Premio mild italian sausage. Should have added some crushed fennel to the sausage, that would have been the bomb for sure.

Thanks buddy, I'll be trying that one!
Hans


Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #192 on: August 02, 2015, 10:41:07 PM »
  The skin was really easy to roll out. I put the dough in a warm oven for around an hour. I then put the dough on top of the stove that was set at 550 degrees, The top of the stove was warm, and this kept the dough warm till rolling out. I dusted the counter with flour and rolled the dough till it was difficult to get any more expansion. I then lightly dusted the skin with flour and flipped that side to the counter. I rolled the dough till it did not expand. I dusted the top again and rolled it out. I repeated this till I got to 20 inches. It took about 4 minutes. Of course I think the large amount of oil helped in the process of rolling out the skin. I am not sure what made this skin so good. It could the the KASL, the Crisco, lower hydration. I know I am getting closer to my quest of a PH style at home

Offline clarkth

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #193 on: August 02, 2015, 11:47:34 PM »
Here is the recipe....
Flour   373 grams
water  157 grams
IDY     1/3 teaspoon
salt     1 teaspoon
sugar  1 teaspoon
DMP    .5 grams

   I rolled the skin out to 20 inches, then draped it over a 14.5" cutter pan. It was almost paper thin. I then used the rolling pin on the edge of the pan to trim the skin. I par baked the skin in the pan. The topped skin finished cooking directly on the stone. Even after the pie sat for 20 minutes, the crust was still crispy. I topped the pie with 6oz of sauce, 5oz of whole milk mozz, and 6oz of Premio mild italian sausage. Should have added some crushed fennel to the sausage, that would have been the bomb for sure.

I tried my hand at putting this into the dough tool and here is what I came up with, does this look about right?


Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #194 on: Yesterday at 09:19:54 AM »
That looks close enough to me. The DMP looks a little high. I use a jewelry scale for the DMP. 1/2 a gram is a little less than an 1/8 teaspoon. If you use too much DMP, the dough can turn into a soupy mess. Make sure the dough is at room temp or a little higher when rolling out. It is a lot easier when the dough is warm as compared to when it is cold. Good luck. Post some pics of your pie when you give this a try.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:23:20 AM by nick57 »

Offline clarkth

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #195 on: Yesterday at 06:57:15 PM »
That looks close enough to me. The DMP looks a little high. I use a jewelry scale for the DMP. 1/2 a gram is a little less than an 1/8 teaspoon. If you use too much DMP, the dough can turn into a soupy mess. Make sure the dough is at room temp or a little higher when rolling out. It is a lot easier when the dough is warm as compared to when it is cold. Good luck. Post some pics of your pie when you give this a try.

I have a scale that goes to .01g so I weigh everything.  I'll keep it to .5g.  I'm going to give it a try this weekend.  I don't have a cutter pan so I'll use parchment paper but I don't think that will be a problem.

I'll post pictures, good or bad  ;D

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #196 on: Yesterday at 07:41:27 PM »
What about the Crisco in the ingredient list and the %'s, etc.?


*********

WOW Nick looks great!  I'd love to have another go at cracker style.  I really enjoy this type of pizza. 

There's only so many pizzas one can make though ha ha and I've been working on my NY style (and NP).

What he said!
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:49:54 PM by mitchjg »
Mitch

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #197 on: Yesterday at 08:05:38 PM »
 Clark, I forgot to add that I am using King Arthur DMP. It is very potent, I think the Linter value is 80. If you are not using a DMP with a high value you may need to use more. What brand of DMP are you using? A lot of recipes call for around 1% of the flour weight. Which for your recipe would be 3.73 grams. I would stay on the low side if you are not sure of your DMP value. To be on the safe side for your first try, leave it out. See how you like the crust, then give it a try the next time. Your skin will still be good.

 I have baked my crackers directly on the stone at 550 degrees on parchment paper. If you par bake the skin, don't use the paper after applying toppings, Finish cooking the pie directly on the stone. Be sure to dock the skin pretty heavily. Keep an eye in the skin while par baking, if you see any big bubbles pop them before they set up. After the par bake let the skin cool down on a cooling rack for about 10 minutes before adding the toppings.  After the pie is finished cool it for 3 to 5 minutes on a cooling rack, this will keep the crust from losing it is crispness. If you don't have KASL, bread flour will work just fine. Since it's a thin crust, don't overload it with toppings. If you look at the pic of the skin in the pan before cooking, you can almost see the pan through it. I roll it out very thin.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:38:23 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #198 on: Yesterday at 08:23:30 PM »
  Mitch, this is very close to the recipe I used on this dough. I did up the salt to 1 teaspoon. As for the Crisco, I did not melt it. I added it to the dough after I added the water and the rest of the ingredients to the flour and pulsed a few times with the processor to mix together. I let the dough sit for a couple of minutes to hydrate, then added the Crisco. I pulsed the processor a few times till the Crisco was incorporated. I used 1/3 of a teaspoon of yeast. I think that was too much and will go back to around a 1/4 teaspoon next time. Don't know if the DMP had much of an effect, the sugar may have added more to the browning of the crust. The leftovers I cooked today were very crispy. Hope you get some good results. I'm in no way an expert, and this is a continuing quest of mine to create an old school Pizza Hut thin crust. This quest led me to the forum. I was not a fan of other styles of pizzas. But now I like a lot different styles of crusts. NY style, Chicago thins, NJ boardwalk tomato pies, St Louis/Imo's, and Pete's Papa John's clones are some my fave styles besides crackers. Thanks to the forum members to opening me up to different varieties of pizza.  I am close, but no cigar yet ;D
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:56:42 PM by nick57 »