Author Topic: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.  (Read 12108 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline andreguidon

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1166
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Sao Paulo
  • Hot WFO always !!!
    • www.andreguidon.com
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci


Offline briterian

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Cincinnati
  • and some think pizza's easy!
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2011, 07:35:07 AM »
Does that sound safe?  Cooking 'za on steel?  I know the cast iron pan method is popular right now but fabricated steel?  It is safe? 

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2011, 08:06:12 AM »
Iron is an element: a pure substance. Steel is a mixture, an alloy of two elements iron and carbon, with more useful properties than pure iron for industrial purposes. If memory serves me right technically cast iron is also an alloy having more carbon in the mix. So in other words, cast iron simply has more carbon in it than steel. Steel is actually "cleaner" all the way to stainless steel the "cleanest". Deep dish pizza is cooked in steel pans, do you think that is unsafe?
Don

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_iron_and_steel#ixzz1E20KagGm
also more on the fact that cast iron is an alloy
http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/ironandsteel.html


Does that sound safe?  Cooking 'za on steel?  I know the cast iron pan method is popular right now but fabricated steel?  It is safe?  
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 12:46:55 PM by buceriasdon »

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12579
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2011, 10:03:27 AM »
Don, what do you mean by "clean" and "cleanest?"

Stainless steel differers from steel by the addition of chromium not by a lack of impurities.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12579
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2011, 10:06:38 AM »
There are several threads on this subject. For example:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12887.0.html

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2011, 12:30:23 PM »
  Craig, I simply meant stainless is more rust resistant and more capable of being made sterile than other steels. Hense it's use in kitchens as clad walls and prep tables.
Don


Don, what do you mean by "clean" and "cleanest?"

Stainless steel differers from steel by the addition of chromium not by a lack of impurities.

Craig

Offline Meatballs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 196
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2011, 10:34:22 AM »
Regular high carbon steel is used all the time in food prep.  Look at a commercial griddle or a wok, they are both high carbon steel.  The nice thing about this steel is that the carbon in it sticks to carbon in the food forming a non-stick surface on the steel.  My wok and my griddle are both BLACK.

I have no problem obtaining a good piece of steel to cook on.

Ron

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2011, 02:25:49 PM »
I have no agrument with cabon steel use in cooking in restaurants, however prep. tables are another thing.
Don

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 600
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2011, 11:09:59 AM »
I'm wondering if a steel shelf near the size of the oven rack would perform better than a smaller round pan with more space around it on the upper rack....

Offline BobBill

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 64
  • Location: MN
  • Pies since 1972
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 12:43:55 PM by BobBill »
Welcome to our round playground called Earth
Where the greatest cause of death is birth! Lucas, Winona
All you gotta know - JD Winona


Offline BobBill

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 64
  • Location: MN
  • Pies since 1972
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2011, 12:41:26 PM »
And ya don't need anything fancy. Plain steel  and low cost stone does it well, as noted.

Why complicate a simple process?  

Go here -  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9342.0.html
Welcome to our round playground called Earth
Where the greatest cause of death is birth! Lucas, Winona
All you gotta know - JD Winona

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2011, 01:34:58 PM »
I think it is important to remember the question posited in "Problem #3", which is, "You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven."

The context of the steel placement in the article was specific to be used in conjunction with a particular cooking method...utilizing the "all broiler" method of cooking pizzas in a standard kitchen oven.

The key is the cooking time....the article mentioned 90 to 120 seconds, which is a good range. The time to cook this type of pizza, particularly if utilizing the Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour often used in a Neapolitan pizza, is critical in successfully making the style.

Longer cooking times of 5, 7, 9 or more minutes can be used to cook very good pizza, but with all due respect it is not applicable for cooking the Neapolitan-style pizzas mentioned in the article. --K
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 01:38:50 PM by pizzablogger »
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2011, 02:41:08 PM »
If I read the article and the description of the method correctly, the oven would have a burner below the oven and a broiler burner at the top of the oven. The 1/4" plate is preheated in the oven then the broiler lit and the pizza placed on the plate and baked.  The method may not work if the oven is not configured that way.
Don

Electric, but describes what I'm saying.
http://www.soyouwanna.com/use-broiler-element-whirlpool-double-oven-9198.html
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 02:45:47 PM by buceriasdon »

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1890
  • Age: 60
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »
picking up a piece of 15 inch by 17 inch by1/4 inch steel Friday will be free Sunday evening to experiment will document and post

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2011, 03:40:18 PM »
I look forward to your findings. I'm sure scott123 and Mark are following this thread also with interest, as I am. My experiment with a steel plate proved quite interesting and I want to hear about how it goes with others. Are you going for a 2 minute bake as described in the article?
Don


picking up a piece of 15 inch by 17 inch by1/4 inch steel Friday will be free Sunday evening to experiment will document and post

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6937
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2011, 04:26:15 PM »
picking up a piece of 15 inch by 17 inch by1/4 inch steel Friday will be free Sunday evening to experiment will document and post

Thezaman, I'm sorry to say it, but that's not going to work.  :( From the article (bold mine)

Quote
Get a -inch-thick sheet of steel from a metal fabricator (Search online for a local one), have it cut to the size of your oven shelf and insert it in the rack closest to the broiler.

The only possible way for this technique to work is if the steel is cut to the dimensions of the shelf, ie, it restricts air flow between the top and the bottom of the oven so the thermostat doesn't turn the oven off when the steel plate reaches 550. In the steel plate thread, we've tested 1/2" steel plate (more thermal mass) preheated for 90 minutes at 550 and that can barely do a 3.5 minute pie. The testing is still a bit preliminary, but the question isn't whether or not steel plate can bake 1.5-2 minute Neapolitan pies, but 4 minute NY pies at 500. Cut to a smaller than shelf size dimension, Neapolitan is out of the question. With air gaps, the steel will never go much above 550 (or however hot the oven will go).  Steel's conductivity allows it to bake pizzas at lower temps, but not that low.  For Neapolitan with firebrick, it's 850.  With 1/4" steel, you're talking at least 700.

Which, as I've expressed elsewhere, is my issue with this section of the book. It has people thinking that the superior conductivity of steel will have people baking Neapolitan pizzas at 550ish degrees (at 1/4" thickness).  This is not what we're seeing.  The reason why their setup produces 1.5 minute pizzas is because it's an oven trick- any material that doesn't allow air to pass will cause the bottom of the oven to pre-heat well above 550- that's what happening there.

But, just because the book is misleading, doesn't mean that a no-gap stone method isn't worth trying.  Because oven tricks involve safety concerns (again, something he doesn't mention), it's not something I'd set up and walk away from/forget about, but, if one is conscientious, this could very well be a viable home Neapolitan method- perhaps even more consistent than Toby's Nearlypolitan approach.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 04:28:37 PM by scott123 »

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1890
  • Age: 60
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2011, 05:44:39 PM »
 scott, where is the thread on using the metal for ny style?? i haven't had it cut yet i will measure my oven and get it to fit full length and width.

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2011, 05:54:04 PM »
Excellent point Scott, the steel plate is acting as the ceiling which is preheated from below, then the broiler switched on for bake. I wonder how tight though it must be around the perimeter to get the plate heated sufficiently but not allow the oven to shut off. A plate would not create a seal at the door so hot air could rise up. Perhaps the plate restricts enough for the method to work.
Don

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6937
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2011, 06:05:39 PM »
That's great that it hasn't been cut yet, Larry. Here's the steel plate thread

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12887.0.html

If you do go with the no-gap steel plate method, as far as I know, you'll be the first member of the forum to do so. You've got an infrared thermometer, right? After the 1/2 hour pre-heat is up (and prior to broiling), take lots of temperature readings:

Top of the steel plate
Bottom of the plate
Oven ceiling
Oven wall above the plate
Oven wall below the plate

If all goes as planned, the compartment below the plate will be 700 or more, while the compartment above will be less than 525. In order for the broiler to go on and stay on for the duration of the bake, the top compartment has to be less than 525.

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2011, 06:07:35 PM »
thezaman, some ovens have radius corners in the back. If yours does I would make a template of the radius and factor that in as if the two back corners are ground to size the plate will slide back farther requiring more back to front length . If square then disregard ::)
Don


scott, where is the thread on using the metal for ny style?? i haven't had it cut yet i will measure my oven and get it to fit full length and width.