Author Topic: My new LBE and pies  (Read 42901 times)

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Offline ponzu

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2011, 11:36:04 PM »
JT,

These are, I think, the most beautiful pies that you have made yet.  Particularly those at the top of the page. Everything looks just right to my eye. 

One thing I did not previously like about the look of LBE pies in general, before these, was that rim of white on the inward facing edge of the cornicione.  It always looked doughy and incompletely baked to me.  The top always looked undone somehow.

These pies look just perfect.



Offline Ronzo

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2011, 11:48:44 PM »
Chau... dude, YOU'RE KILLIN' ME!
Fuggheddabowdit!

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2011, 11:52:32 PM »
JT,

These are, I think, the most beautiful pies that you have made yet.  Particularly those at the top of the page. Everything looks just right to my eye.  

One thing I did not previously like about the look of LBE pies in general, before these, was that rim of white on the inward facing edge of the cornicione.  It always looked doughy and incompletely baked to me.  The top always looked undone somehow.

These pies look just perfect.




Ponzu, thank you very much.   I always really appreciate your feedback b/c I know that you are just as tough a critic as I.   About the top white rim, that was always one of my complaints.  I posted about this many times in my MBE thread.  It was member Bucierasdon and Jetdeck that gave me some ideas that I used to come up with the heat deflector in the lid.   This solve that problem directing the hot air back down onto the top of the rim.    I think this takes a bit of valuable heat away from the heat that surrounds the top cheese but a worthy trade off.  The challenge is learning where to place the pie on the stone to get coverage to that area perfectly.  As you can see from the pie above, there is still a very small white rim.  I didn't mind showing this one as I was happy with the coloration of the crust overall, very WFO-like.

I think the top pies look a bit more like Bianco's pies while the ones below look a bit closer to NP WFO pies.  
At this point in the game, the progress is rather slow tweaking small things for the greater good.  Still learning and still trying though...still after that Ultimate Pie.

Thanks Alexi,
Chau
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:54:58 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2011, 11:56:40 PM »
Chau... dude, YOU'RE KILLIN' ME!

A real pleasure Ron.  :-D  Ron I forgot to ask you about your most recent beer pies.  What cheese or cheeses did you use?  It was a perfect melt.

Chau

Offline Ronzo

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2011, 12:16:01 AM »
A real pleasure Ron.  :-D  Ron I forgot to ask you about your most recent beer pies.  What cheese or cheeses did you use?  It was a perfect melt.

Chau

I went with HEB brand (local grocery store) deli counter whole milk mozzarella sliced at about a .5 - Not sure who actually makes it for them (might be Boar's Head but not sure), but it is REALLY good. Creamy and salty and melted very well.
Fuggheddabowdit!

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Offline Essen1

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2011, 12:17:18 AM »
Made a small tweak and finally got the "look" that I want.  Still need to do a bit more work though.

Interesting though, this pie is a 6 hour pie made with the CY starter I made over the weekend. 

Chau



Gorgeous Pie, bro.

Looks like you have finally found that sweet spot in your LBE.  :)
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline ponzu

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2011, 02:09:40 AM »

Ponzu, thank you very much.   I always really appreciate your feedback b/c I know that you are just as tough a critic as I.   About the top white rim, that was always one of my complaints.  I posted about this many times in my MBE thread.  It was member Bucierasdon and Jetdeck that gave me some ideas that I used to come up with the heat deflector in the lid.   This solve that problem directing the hot air back down onto the top of the rim.    I think this takes a bit of valuable heat away from the heat that surrounds the top cheese but a worthy trade off.  The challenge is learning where to place the pie on the stone to get coverage to that area perfectly.  As you can see from the pie above, there is still a very small white rim.  I didn't mind showing this one as I was happy with the coloration of the crust overall, very WFO-like.

I think the top pies look a bit more like Bianco's pies while the ones below look a bit closer to NP WFO pies.  
At this point in the game, the progress is rather slow tweaking small things for the greater good.  Still learning and still trying though...still after that Ultimate Pie.

Thanks Alexi,
Chau


The Bianco comparison on the first pies  is the exact one I had in my mind.

Offline sbxstr

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2011, 04:54:17 PM »
Jackie Tran, Thanks for the reply to my request for information on building one of these. Got the link from Mmmph. SBXSTR

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2011, 09:35:49 PM »
Thanks Mike.  Your welcome Sbxstr.   :)

Made a few tester pies last night.  These were 50/50 00/AP, a new combination for me.   They were decent but not as good as my favored 75/25 00/HG.   They weren't as light in texture and a bit doughy.

1st pie:  Sauteed baby arugula, garlic slivers, and cherry tomatoes.   Was going to use the umami bomb sauce on this but forgot.   

2nd pie: white sauce, proscuitto di parma, baby arugula, OO & balsamic vinegar, grate parmegiano, and pine nuts.


Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2011, 10:17:37 PM »
Those look really good! Boy do I love arugula too.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2011, 12:12:11 AM »
Those look really good! Boy do I love arugula too.

Thank you for saying the pies look good JN.   I've been playing around with cold fermented doughs and starting to figure out some things to help me make better CF pies.  I think I still prefer a long room temp ferment over a cold ferment but I'm getting better.

A couple of CF pies made with IDY (no starter).  70/30 (00/HG).  1 hr RT bulk, ~38h CF with dividing and balling after 9th hour in fridge, and proofed for 1.5h at warm temps.


Offline Ronzo

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2011, 12:13:15 AM »
Chau... I'll say it again... Yer killin' me bro
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
http://newtexianbrew.com - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline bernie516

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2011, 12:49:48 AM »
man those look amazing!  im almost done w/ my LBE, waiting my old stone pizza stone and infared thermometer to come in the mail and i'll be ready to setup my first fire.  hope i can achieve something close to what you're doing!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2011, 12:57:31 AM »
Thank you Ron & Bernie.

Bernie, you will.  It will take some tinkering and dialing in of your new LBE though.  Some getting use to and learning how it specifically bakes.   I can't even begin to count the number of pies I've burned tweaking and learning about my MBE and now LBE.  You will for sure have many fustrations with it, but don't forget that's all part of the process.  

Good luck.
Chau
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 01:03:34 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline norma427

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2011, 07:03:26 AM »
Chau,

You recent cold fermented pie looks amazing!  :)  Will be interesting to hear after you experiment for awhile, if you do really like a cold fermented dough or not.

Norma

Offline ponzu

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2011, 11:41:49 AM »
Great crumb!

How are you taking your crumb shots JT?  really great definition.

AZ

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2011, 01:49:09 PM »
Chau,

You recent cold fermented pie looks amazing!  :)  Will be interesting to hear after you experiment for awhile, if you do really like a cold fermented dough or not.

Norma

Thanks Norma.  I know I've posted some disparaging comments about CF doughs in the past.  :-D  It just shows my lack of skill.  A true pizza master should be able to handle any flour, condition, or regimen right?  It may not be for everone but it has it's place and purpose.  A few of my really  great pies have been CF doughs, but the majority of my CF doughs haven't been great.  I've always blamed the dryness on the altitude/climate but I'm starting to learn how to make the necessary adjustments to offset that effect.   I am looking forward to a time when I can look back and answer some of my many questions about dough.  I wonder how much I will have changed my mind over the years.   ;D

Great crumb!

How are you taking your crumb shots JT?  really great definition.

AZ

Thanks Alexi, I'm just using my plain jane pocket canon digital camera (SD780 IS).  I usually have it on autofocus with the kitchen lights on.  I'm lucky to get a clear shot with this thing.  It's actually quite funny.  This tiny camera has flour in every nook and cranny.   

Chau


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2011, 08:46:22 AM »
So I have been continuing with my Cold Fermented dough experiments and finally getting great consistent results. 

I think I wasn't getting good results with cold ferments in the past b/c I was experimenting with so many variables with limited understanding.  It was almost impossible to pinpoint the source of the problem then.   Since I've had more time to focus on it lately, I think I have been able to fix those issues.  At any rate these are some recent CF pies that had great texture.  I'm also liking the longer fermentation protocol (be it cold or RT) for it's increased digestibility factor.

First up.  This was 72% hydration HG BF pie, 0.3% IDY.  1h bulk, 45h CF, 3h proof.  I really let the dough proof up high on this.  Looks aren't all that but the texture was really good.  Also lots of pimples. 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2011, 08:57:28 AM »
A few more Cold Fermented pies from last night with great texture.  These were 70/30 00/HG blend 69% HR, 0.3% IDY.

First one 1h bulk, 36h CF, 1.5h proof.   This one had smoke mozz, pear, sauteed oyster mushrooms, and proscuitto.   This was the first time using pears and oyster mushrooms on a pizza.  The oyster mushrooms were really good.  Nice meaty texture and great flavor.  All the flavors blended well. 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2011, 09:00:51 AM »
Same recipe as above but slightly different mixing & kneading regimen, and slightly shorter overall fermentation time.   Produced a nearly identical texture.  

Buffala mozz & sprinkle of grated romano.

 

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2011, 06:32:27 PM »
Great looking pies, you said you really like the texture the longer ferment is giving your pies, do you also notice a better taste in these longer ferments?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2011, 08:29:02 PM »
Great looking pies, you said you really like the texture the longer ferment is giving your pies, do you also notice a better taste in these longer ferments?

Thanks JN.  The texture on these pies were really good, but not any better than the texture on these 4 hour emergency doughs with 30% starter and IDY posted here at reply #21 & #22

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12538.20.html

I personally have not found a cold fermented (IDY) dough or even a long room temperature fermented (IDY) dough to have an improve texture over an emergency dough.   What I have found is an increase in digestibility, especially with HG flours as posted by Marco and Peter elsewhere.  

For these particular pies, I also did not note the increase in "flavor" as many others do with cold ferments using IDY or ADY.  I can get more flavor out of a same day dough using starters than I can out of a 2 day dough made with IDY.   I have gotten a sourdough crust from IDY over a 4 day ferment though so I know that we can get more 'flavor' with an IDY dough as it ferments longer.  

I also recently noted in another experiment the acidity that develops with an IDY and a CY poolish that is left out at room temps to mature.   Reply #76

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12824.60.html

From these 2 experiments, I can deduce that if a commercially yeasted dough is left to ferment long enough, it can develop "sourdough" like flavors. 

I have 2 doughballs left from the same batch as the above pies that I may bake up tonight.  I'll see if there is any flavor improvement as they will have an additional 24h of cold fermentation.  As of right now, both doughballs look like they are on the edge of overfermenting if they haven't already.  

Chau
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 08:33:22 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Mmmph

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #72 on: March 20, 2011, 01:59:30 PM »

From these 2 experiments, I can deduce that if a commercially yeasted dough is left to ferment long enough, it can develop "sourdough" like flavors. 


I agree completely. I've pulled out refrigerated doughs up to 2 weeks old. The aroma is intoxicating.

The only issue I've had is the gluten breaking down. Walking a tightrope.
Sono venuto, ho visto, ho mangiato

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #73 on: March 20, 2011, 03:08:42 PM »
I agree Mmmph.  If there is a good way to squeeze flavor from commercial yeast without the gluten degradation, I don't know it.  It's easier to go with starters for the flavor, but I still have lots to learn in both departments.

I used up the 2 remaining dough balls last night.  These were from the same batch as the pies posted up above with an additional 24 hours of cold fermentation.  The doughballs looked overblown to me, but I'm sure they weren't as they still gave some decent rise in the oven.  I wanted to bake these in the home oven instead of the LBE just to see what I would get.  Getting crust coloration was difficult.  I had to rim the cornicione against the broiler to get a bit of color into them.  The crumb was on the dry side, but I think that could have been partially from baking them longer than I would have in the LBE.   As far as flavor, nada.  Not even a faint hint of SD flavor, just bread flavor.  Pictures of the dough.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 06:39:07 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: My new LBE and pies
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2011, 03:13:46 PM »
The 2nd pie.

Again these pies were baked in the home oven and just okay for me. 


 

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