My new LBE and pies

[Jackie Tran]

Those look really good! Boy do I love arugula too.

Thank you for saying the pies look good JN.   I've been playing around with cold fermented doughs and starting to figure out some things to help me make better CF pies.  I think I still prefer a long room temp ferment over a cold ferment but I'm getting better.

A couple of CF pies made with IDY (no starter).  70/30 (00/HG).  1 hr RT bulk, ~38h CF with dividing and balling after 9th hour in fridge, and proofed for 1.5h at warm temps.

[Ronzo]

Chau... I'll say it again... Yer killin' me bro

[bernie516]

man those look amazing!  im almost done w/ my LBE, waiting my old stone pizza stone and infared thermometer to come in the mail and i'll be ready to setup my first fire.  hope i can achieve something close to what you're doing!

[Jackie Tran]

Thank you Ron & Bernie.

Bernie, you will.  It will take some tinkering and dialing in of your new LBE though.  Some getting use to and learning how it specifically bakes.   I can't even begin to count the number of pies I've burned tweaking and learning about my MBE and now LBE.  You will for sure have many fustrations with it, but don't forget that's all part of the process.  

Good luck.
Chau

[norma427]

Chau,

You recent cold fermented pie looks amazing!    Will be interesting to hear after you experiment for awhile, if you do really like a cold fermented dough or not.

Norma

[ponzu]

Great crumb!

How are you taking your crumb shots JT?  really great definition.

AZ

[Jackie Tran]

Chau,

You recent cold fermented pie looks amazing!    Will be interesting to hear after you experiment for awhile, if you do really like a cold fermented dough or not.

Norma

Thanks Norma.  I know I've posted some disparaging comments about CF doughs in the past.    It just shows my lack of skill.  A true pizza master should be able to handle any flour, condition, or regimen right?  It may not be for everone but it has it's place and purpose.  A few of my really  great pies have been CF doughs, but the majority of my CF doughs haven't been great.  I've always blamed the dryness on the altitude/climate but I'm starting to learn how to make the necessary adjustments to offset that effect.   I am looking forward to a time when I can look back and answer some of my many questions about dough.  I wonder how much I will have changed my mind over the years.   

Great crumb!

How are you taking your crumb shots JT?  really great definition.

AZ

Thanks Alexi, I'm just using my plain jane pocket canon digital camera (SD780 IS).  I usually have it on autofocus with the kitchen lights on.  I'm lucky to get a clear shot with this thing.  It's actually quite funny.  This tiny camera has flour in every nook and cranny.   

Chau

[Jackie Tran]

So I have been continuing with my Cold Fermented dough experiments and finally getting great consistent results. 

I think I wasn't getting good results with cold ferments in the past b/c I was experimenting with so many variables with limited understanding.  It was almost impossible to pinpoint the source of the problem then.   Since I've had more time to focus on it lately, I think I have been able to fix those issues.  At any rate these are some recent CF pies that had great texture.  I'm also liking the longer fermentation protocol (be it cold or RT) for it's increased digestibility factor.

First up.  This was 72% hydration HG BF pie, 0.3% IDY.  1h bulk, 45h CF, 3h proof.  I really let the dough proof up high on this.  Looks aren't all that but the texture was really good.  Also lots of pimples. 

[Jackie Tran]

A few more Cold Fermented pies from last night with great texture.  These were 70/30 00/HG blend 69% HR, 0.3% IDY.

First one 1h bulk, 36h CF, 1.5h proof.   This one had smoke mozz, pear, sauteed oyster mushrooms, and proscuitto.   This was the first time using pears and oyster mushrooms on a pizza.  The oyster mushrooms were really good.  Nice meaty texture and great flavor.  All the flavors blended well. 

[Jackie Tran]

Same recipe as above but slightly different mixing & kneading regimen, and slightly shorter overall fermentation time.   Produced a nearly identical texture.  

Buffala mozz & sprinkle of grated romano.

 

[jeffereynelson]

Great looking pies, you said you really like the texture the longer ferment is giving your pies, do you also notice a better taste in these longer ferments?

[Jackie Tran]

Great looking pies, you said you really like the texture the longer ferment is giving your pies, do you also notice a better taste in these longer ferments?

Thanks JN.  The texture on these pies were really good, but not any better than the texture on these 4 hour emergency doughs with 30% starter and IDY posted here at reply #21 & #22

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12538.20.html

I personally have not found a cold fermented (IDY) dough or even a long room temperature fermented (IDY) dough to have an improve texture over an emergency dough.   What I have found is an increase in digestibility, especially with HG flours as posted by Marco and Peter elsewhere.  

For these particular pies, I also did not note the increase in "flavor" as many others do with cold ferments using IDY or ADY.  I can get more flavor out of a same day dough using starters than I can out of a 2 day dough made with IDY.   I have gotten a sourdough crust from IDY over a 4 day ferment though so I know that we can get more 'flavor' with an IDY dough as it ferments longer.  

I also recently noted in another experiment the acidity that develops with an IDY and a CY poolish that is left out at room temps to mature.   Reply #76

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12824.60.html

From these 2 experiments, I can deduce that if a commercially yeasted dough is left to ferment long enough, it can develop "sourdough" like flavors. 

I have 2 doughballs left from the same batch as the above pies that I may bake up tonight.  I'll see if there is any flavor improvement as they will have an additional 24h of cold fermentation.  As of right now, both doughballs look like they are on the edge of overfermenting if they haven't already.  

Chau

[Mmmph]

From these 2 experiments, I can deduce that if a commercially yeasted dough is left to ferment long enough, it can develop "sourdough" like flavors. 

I agree completely. I've pulled out refrigerated doughs up to 2 weeks old. The aroma is intoxicating.

The only issue I've had is the gluten breaking down. Walking a tightrope.

[Jackie Tran]

I agree Mmmph.  If there is a good way to squeeze flavor from commercial yeast without the gluten degradation, I don't know it.  It's easier to go with starters for the flavor, but I still have lots to learn in both departments.

I used up the 2 remaining dough balls last night.  These were from the same batch as the pies posted up above with an additional 24 hours of cold fermentation.  The doughballs looked overblown to me, but I'm sure they weren't as they still gave some decent rise in the oven.  I wanted to bake these in the home oven instead of the LBE just to see what I would get.  Getting crust coloration was difficult.  I had to rim the cornicione against the broiler to get a bit of color into them.  The crumb was on the dry side, but I think that could have been partially from baking them longer than I would have in the LBE.   As far as flavor, nada.  Not even a faint hint of SD flavor, just bread flavor.  Pictures of the dough.

[Jackie Tran]

The 2nd pie.

Again these pies were baked in the home oven and just okay for me. 

[Jackie Tran]

Made 4 pies tonight.  Wanted to do a shootout between 48 hour cold ferment and 24 h room temp pies.  Also have been working with some new hand techniques comparing HG pies against oo/hg blend.

First the 48h CF pies.  These were made Thursday night and baked Saturday.

Pic 1 HG 4 cheese pie.  Crust was good on this one.

Pic 2 oo/hg blend.   Smoked bbq pork ribs pie.  Bbq sauce, smoked mozz blend, carmelized onions, bbq pork spare ribs, romano and OO to finish.  The flavor was fantastic.  The crust was okay.

[Ronzo]

Chau: *bows before the master* I'm not worthy, brother. Those are gorgeous.

[Jackie Tran]

The 24h RT pies.  

Pic 1 the 00/hg blend.  Pepperoni, sausage, mushroom.  Crust was okay.

Pic 2 Shrimp, leek and garlic pie.  First time putting leeks on a pie.  Had a fantastic shrimp and leek pie at Bill's house, so thought I would try to replicate it.  The crust on this pie was the best of the 4 tonight.

[Jackie Tran]

Thank you very much Ron.  I truely appreciate your nice words.  Jackie Tran is still honing his skillz.  I win some and lose some. 

Chau

[parallei]

Sweet Chau   Nice crumb, and that shrimp/leek pie looks absolutely killer.  Another to add to my must try list...