Author Topic: My new LBE and pies (Read 23097 times)

ponzu · « **Reply #80 on:** March 27, 2011, 12:37:33 AM »

JT that last pie is very reminiscent of the prior pie you baked a couple of weeks ago that I thought was a wholey original creation.

I sense the emergence of a truly personal expression of your own ideal form of pizza. That is very exciting.

The proportions are on point on all of the pies.

Aside from qualitative observations that one crust was better than another what were the textural or flavor attributes that distinguished the best from the worst examples?

AZ

andreguidon · « **Reply #81 on:** March 27, 2011, 07:55:07 AM »

WOW Chau, the room temperature pie looks GREAT !!!

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #82 on:** March 27, 2011, 10:05:13 AM »

Thank you gentlemen.

Alexi, you are right that the last pie of the bunch is reminiscent of the pie from last week posted here...
(2nd pie of reply #50 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12122.40.html)

and this pie here...reply #23
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12538.20.html

They all have that funky lobular look to the rim. All made with HG flour. Texturally, light with a lightly cripsy shell and soft aerated inside like a good baguette. Flavorwise, there's flavor there but not overly complex or deep, nothing mystical in this department. I'm just not good with discerning the different and deep flavor profiles that other members speak of.

I've also gotten this really light texture with the 00/hg blend and that's where I'm setting my aim for currently.

Chau

FacciaPizza · « **Reply #83 on:** March 27, 2011, 12:30:16 PM »

Excellent crumb. Room temp is the way to go!

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #84 on:** March 30, 2011, 01:12:19 AM »

Quote from: FacciaPizza on March 27, 2011, 12:30:16 PM

Excellent crumb. Room temp is the way to go!

Thanks Facciapizza, I do like room temp pies as well.

Made a couple of 11 hour room temp pies today with good texture and digestibility. I think perhaps 10-11 hours is minimum for digestibility. I say that b/c I did eat a lot of these pies and didn't get that heavy feeling that I had just eaten a brick.

Anyways these are 75/25 HG/00 with 10% active starter, 1% oil, & 2.2% salt. These turned out pretty good if I do say so myself. These were 217gm each baked up to 11".

1st pie is a meatball pie.

2nd one is a sunburst cherry tomato pie.

pizzablogger · « **Reply #85 on:** March 30, 2011, 10:15:30 AM »

Quote from: Jackie Tran on March 30, 2011, 01:12:19 AM

Thanks Facciapizza, I do like room temp pies as well.

Made a couple of 11 hour room temp pies today with good texture and digestibility. I think perhaps 10-11 hours is minimum for digestibility.

Great looking pies Chau.

I agree with you. Granted, my formula is different than yours, but I find it takes somewhere between 10-12 hours just to get the pizza "somewhere" with regards to both digestibility and flavor. Somewhere between 20-26 hours bulk, with another 5 or so proofing after dividing, seems to be a good sweet spot for ambient temperature fermented doughs on this end at least. I need to tinker with maybe dividing the dough earlier and proofing longer, but not sure how much of an impact it would have. --K

Mmmph · « **Reply #86 on:** March 30, 2011, 10:35:22 AM »

Wow, Chau...You continue to knock'em out of the park. Beautiful.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #87 on:** March 30, 2011, 11:10:19 AM »

Chau - Awesome stuff. Are these hand mixed or are you still using the Bosch? Also, was your hydration in the 64% area? The reason I ask is that I get a 12" pie from 280 gram balls. I am contemplating going down to 240 (or lower), and may need to go higher in the hydration to get the smaller dough balls to stretch out to 12in. Your 217's have the height and look of a pie with larger mass, and I think I am going too high on the weight of mine.

John

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #88 on:** March 30, 2011, 11:28:55 AM »

Thanks guys. These pizzas have an interesting story behind them so I will tell it. I pulled some starter out of the fridge and put some in a bowl to make dough between 6-8p when the starter would be ready. Anyways, I got busy and decided to not make pizza. Well my kitchen is often messy and I forgot the bowl of starter out all night. I woke up earlier yesterday and saw that the starter still looked active. Tasted it and it wasn't too acidic. It still passed the float test so I thought what the hey, let's make some dough for tonight.

John, this is your starter. 10% and 75/25 HG/00 mix 74% hydration & hand kneaded. It's easy for me to make pizza by hand with BF and stronger flours. Still trying to work out an easy hand process for 00, but I may just have to use the bosch for that flour.

So running short on time before work, I decided to do a long bulk fermentation hoping to get off of work by noon to divide and ball and bake at 5p. Well I got stuck at work until 4pm! Got home at 430 and the dough had more than doubled. I smelled the dough and could tell it wasn't in danger of over acidifying. It had risen a lot but also didn't look like it was anywhere near collapse either. So I gingerly divided & balled the dough after a 9 hour bulk hoping I could let it ferment a few more hours to bake. The dough was soft and bubbly prior to balling. Well it continue rising well and I baked about 1.5h after balling. The dough was a bit harder to open than normal but not bad at all and definitely understandable. This is what happens if you ball too late in the process. Dough seems to develop strength as it sits. It seemed like great dough though just by how it looked and handled.

John, I usually do anywhere from 230 to 240g for a 12". That is stretch to 13" and 12" at post bake. When I make the dough correctly it has a dramatic rise with much lower temps in my LBE, therefore require less dough. If the dough has the right strength and structure you can probably do as low as 220g for a 12", but that's pushing the limits unless you want a really thin pie which I'm not crazy about.

Kelly I have experimented with short, moderate, and long bulk times vs proof times. There is a difference and great pizza can be found in that range.

Chau

Mmmph · « **Reply #89 on:** March 30, 2011, 12:24:44 PM »

Quote from: Jackie Tran on March 30, 2011, 11:28:55 AM

I have experimented with short, moderate, and long bulk times vs proof times. There is a difference and great pizza lies in that range.

Ain't that the truth! So many factors involved from start to finish. Truly great pizza is so elusive, but chase after it, I must.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #90 on:** March 30, 2011, 12:58:30 PM »

Quote from: Jackie Tran on March 30, 2011, 11:28:55 AM

John, I usually do anywhere from 230 to 240g for a 12". That is stretch to 13" and 12" at post bake. When I make the dough correctly it has a dramatic rise with much lower temps in my LBE. If the dough has the right strength and structure you can probably do as low as 220g for a 12", but that's pushing the limits unless you want a really thin pie which I'm not crazy about.

Chau - Thanks very much. I am going to try 240g in the mid 60's hydration.

I have not tried that starter in the WFO, only for bread making, so it is interesting to see the results you are getting with it. On a normal day how long does it take for the starter to become active for you?

It is fascinating to see you and others (Bill) doing super high hydration pizzas mixed by hand. It goes to show there is a very thin line between pizza and bread, if it all.

John

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #91 on:** March 30, 2011, 01:10:34 PM »

Quote from: Mmmph on March 30, 2011, 12:24:44 PM

Ain't that the truth! So many factors involved from start to finish. Truly great pizza is so elusive, but chase after it, I must.

That is the truth and chasing I still am...

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #92 on:** March 30, 2011, 01:21:34 PM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on March 30, 2011, 12:58:30 PM

Chau - Thanks very much. I am going to try 240g in the mid 60's hydration.

I have not tried that starter in the WFO, only for bread making, so it is interesting to see the results you are getting with it. On a normal day how long does it take for the starter to become active for you?

It is fascinating to see you and others (Bill) doing super high hydration pizzas mixed by hand. It goes to show there is a very thin line between pizza and bread, if it all.

John

John my routine for starter use is a bit unique. I tend to make pizzas or breads every couple of days. After I use it, I tend to discard, refeed, and stick it back into the fridge. It slowly becomes active over the next couple of days, so that when I take it out, it is ready to use within an hour to 3-4 hours. If I need it right away, I'll place the jar in a warm bowl of water to bring it up to temps quicker. So my starters are very young at the time that I use it. For a more mature starter it would take probably 6-8 hours. I was very surprise that this starter lasted all night at room temps of 74F or so. It was starting to recede when I used it to make dough in the morning.

I think Bill made a 00 dough with 70% hydration. That is quite high. Most of my doughs are a bit higher than normal but not that much. Though I used 74% for this batch, it still is 75% HG and I still have my arid climate to account for as well.

I agree, there seems to be a much thinner line between the 2 than most people assume. I have always felt they could be one in the same and that learning about one could teach us about the other.

Chau

forzaroma · « **Reply #93 on:** March 30, 2011, 01:29:21 PM »

Hey Chau after our last experiment I kind of like the hand kneading as you have more control and with my KA sometimes its a pain with the dough creeping up on the hook. Also less things to clean up.

jeffereynelson · « **Reply #94 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:27:40 PM »

Quote from: forzaroma on March 30, 2011, 01:29:21 PM

Hey Chau after our last experiment I kind of like the hand kneading as you have more control and with my KA sometimes its a pain with the dough creeping up on the hook. Also less things to clean up.

I use my KA too, what I've started doing is turning the speed up higher than the low setting so the force from spinning actually throws the dough of the hook into the wall of the bowl. I know most people really like to use slow speed, but in my KA that just doesn't work. Just an idea.

Jeff

msheetrit · « **Reply #95 on:** March 31, 2011, 07:36:51 PM »

chau i just saw the thread, stuning pizzas! and nice story.
about the starter 10% starter in 10 hours rise in room temp in enough? i plan to make to pizza with starters.

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #96 on:** April 04, 2011, 11:06:39 PM »

Quote from: msheetrit on March 31, 2011, 07:36:51 PM

chau i just saw the thread, stuning pizzas! and nice story.
about the starter 10% starter in 10 hours rise in room temp in enough? i plan to make to pizza with starters.

Sorry I missed your question earlier Michael. 10% active starter at a room temp of 75F gets me about 8-9hours of fermentation time. This time can vary slightly depending on active-ness of your starter, your hydration ratio, and the strength of your flour. You can watch your dough and adjust the % of starter for next time if need be.

Chau

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #97 on:** April 06, 2011, 01:01:03 AM »

Made a few decent pies tonight. The crumb wasn't spot on but the pies were still good. First time making a modified version of the famous Bianco "Rosa" (with sauce). I was surprise by how much I like this combination of thinly sliced red onion and pistachios.

flyboy4ual · « **Reply #98 on:** April 06, 2011, 01:39:39 AM »

Looks good Chau! I am going to have to try the red onion, pistachio combination.

Scott D.

ponzu · « **Reply #99 on:** April 06, 2011, 02:04:28 AM »

The Rosa looks great. I Love the look of broiled Basil.

What was the dough strategy for this bake?

AZ