Author Topic: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA  (Read 42021 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline steel_baker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 180
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Western Pennsylvania
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2011, 05:43:06 PM »

   Steel Baker
 
  I might have missed it if you mentioned it, but when you make 2 pies do you double the recipe, I made a double recipe yesterday for tonight's pies using a bread machine for the kneading


   Chet


My inclination would be to say yes, double the recipe. I usually make one dough ball at a time so I haven't really thought about that before.

s_b
steel_baker  :chef:


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21682
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2011, 06:28:32 PM »
s_b,

I forgot to ask you if the salt that is used in the dough is Kosher salt (since that is what you put on the dough when in the pan) and, if so, what brand?

Also, have you ever practiced your recipe using a round pan, like a deep-dish pan?

Peter

Offline steel_baker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 180
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Western Pennsylvania
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2011, 06:34:24 PM »
s_b,

I forgot to ask you if the salt that is used in the dough is Kosher salt (since that is what you put on the dough when in the pan) and, if so, what brand?

Also, have you ever practiced your recipe using a round pan, like a deep-dish pan?

Peter

I use Morton's Kosher Salt. The only round pies I've done have been early on (nearly 2 years ago) when I first figured out the techniques & flavors. I used to do a smaller batch in a 12" cast iron skillet since I didn't have any blue steel pans at the time. Other than that, I haven't really experimented with round pans. Primarily because the authentic VP pizza is rectangular and is baked in blue steel pans. At the time, the supplier of the pans was a local restaurant supply house in northeastern PA. They told me that VP used Nash Blue Steel pans. Their pans were 12"x36".

s_b
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21682
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2011, 07:54:37 PM »
Using the weight data for the dough formulation given at the bottom of Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161538.html#msg161538, I calculated the weight of the dough for that formulation, and I also calculated the baker's percents for all of the ingredients. The total dough weight is 711 grams. Using that weight and the baker's percents in the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, steel_baker's dough formulation looks like this:

Bread Flour (100%):
Water (Bottled) (66.993%):
IDY (1.956%):
Salt (Morton's Kosher) (1.956%):
Olive Oil (0.978%):
Sugar (1.956%):
Total (173.839%):
409 g  |  14.43 oz | 0.9 lbs
274 g  |  9.66 oz | 0.6 lbs
8 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.66 tsp | 0.89 tbsp
8 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.67 tsp | 0.56 tbsp
4 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
8 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.01 tsp | 0.67 tbsp
711 g | 25.08 oz | 1.57 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The amount of dough is for a 12" x 17" sloping-sided blue steel pan; the bread flour used by steel_baker is from Costco or Sam's Club; no bowl residue compensation.

It will be noted that the volume numbers as set forth above are a bit different than some of steel_bakers volume numbers. That is because the conversion values embedded in the expanded dough calculating tool are different than what steel_baker has indicated. I also did not round out numbers. However, the differences should not have a material effect on the final results. Also, as steel_baker noted, one can also use a packet of IDY instead of weighing out the actual amount recited in his dough formulation, with no material effect on the final results.

The value of thickness factor that corresponds to steel_baker's dough is (711/28.35)/(12 x 17) = 0.122938. That is the value that should be used in the expanded dough calculating tool if one wishes to use a different size pan than the 12" x 17" pan that steel_baker uses. The other entries for the expanded dough calculating tool are the baker's percents noted above and the pan dimensions (using the Rectangular option). To give an example, I read recently that Norma purchased an 8" x 10" sloping-sided steel pan. If she wants to make a VP style pizza using that pan, which I believe she said she wanted to do, then the dough formulation for that purpose would look like this:

Bread Flour (100%):
Water (Bottled) (66.993%):
IDY (1.956%):
Salt (Morton's Kosher) (1.956%):
Olive Oil (0.978%):
Sugar (1.956%):
Total (173.839%):
160.39 g  |  5.66 oz | 0.35 lbs
107.45 g  |  3.79 oz | 0.24 lbs
3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.65 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
1.57 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.79 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
278.82 g | 9.84 oz | 0.61 lbs | TF = 0.122938
Note: The amount of dough is for an 8" x 10" sloping-sided blue steel pan; no bowl residue compensation

Of course, if one does not have Kosher salt on hand, it is possible to substitute regular table salt. The baker's percents are the same for both forms of salt. The expanded dough calculating tool will produce the right conversions to volume measurements. It is also possible to use a bowl residue compensation. For my KitchenAid stand mixer, I have found a value of 1.5% to be a good value. I also suspect that the results will not materially change if one has straight-sided pans rather than sloping-sided pans. The crust thickness is not so large as to make a material difference.

Now, there is little reason or excuse for one not to try out steel_baker's recipe to make other sizes of pizzas. Using the thickness factor option in the expanded dough calculating tool, one can even make round versions of steel_baker's dough formulation. Of course, when changing pizza sizes and shapes, one may have to monitor the baking of the pizza so that it does not come out overbaked or underbaked.

Peter



Offline steel_baker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 180
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Western Pennsylvania
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2011, 07:57:28 PM »
Looks great Peter. Thanks for your hard work. ;)
steel_baker  :chef:

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2011, 08:04:47 PM »
Thank you Peter, Good job. :D
Don

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21142
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2011, 10:53:18 PM »
Thanks Peter for setting-forth steel_baker’s formulation in baker percent.  I did post at Reply 24 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg160142.html#msg160142 that I wanted to try steel_baker’s Victory Pig style pizza.  My new steel pans are 8”x10” and 12”x17”.

Thanks steel_baker for your for all your hard work in recreating this style of pizza.  I live in Pa., but never tried a Victory Pig pizza.  Looking forward to trying this style of pizza.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21142
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #67 on: December 05, 2011, 07:36:53 AM »
Steel_baker,

I mixed a dough for the Victory Pig style pizza last evening.  I don’t know if I used the right kind of flour or not, but I used Better for Bread flour.  I also reduced the amount of IDY to 2 grams because I am trying a two day cold ferment.  I found the Vermont Cabot sharp white cheddar at my local supermarket, so I will use that in combination with mozzarella. Do you have any idea of how much of the cheese blend I should use for a 8”x10” pan?  I used Peter’s formulation for a 8”x10” Victory Pig except for the yeast amount.  I did use the same mixing regime you posted in your video.

I will let you know how the pizza turns out after the pizza is baked on Tuesday.

This is how the dough looks this morning.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline steel_baker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 180
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Western Pennsylvania
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2011, 07:41:59 AM »
I generally use approx 8oz of the cheese blend for each 12x17 pan I bake so just using the same ratio based upon the area of the pan should give you a  number of just over 3 oz of cheese. :pizza:
steel_baker  :chef:

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21142
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2011, 08:01:18 AM »
I generally use approx 8oz of the cheese blend for each 12x17 pan I bake so just using the same ratio based upon the area of the pan should give you a  number of just over 3 oz of cheese. :pizza:

steel_baker,

Thanks for telling me what amount of the cheese blend to try for the size pan I am using!  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21682
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2011, 08:44:49 AM »
Norma,

I know you aren't crazy about math, but the calculation for the cheese blend is (8 x 10)/(12 x 17) x 8 = 3.14 ounces, or about 79.5 grams. Half of that will be cheddar and the other half will be the mozzarella cheese.

You didn't ask how much crushed tomato or onion or peanut oil to use with your 8" x 10" pan, but the ratio of the areas of the two pans, 0.392, also applies to those three items. (Note: one can of crushed tomatoes and the half-onion are for four pizzas in the 12" x 17" pan.)

So:

Crushed tomatoes = (0.392 x 28 ounces)/4 = 2.74 ounces, or about 77.8 grams, by weight
Onion = (0.392 x 1/2 onion)/4 = 0.049, or about a twentieth of an onion (or one fifth of a quarter section of onion, which can be eyeballed)
Peanut oil (1 1/2 to 2 ounces, by volume, for the pan) = 0.392 x 1.5 = 0.59 ounces to 0.392 x 2 = 0.784 ounces, by volume (this is about 3 3/4 t. to about 5 t.)

The same approach applies to round pizzas also, as you can see from Tom Lehmann's posts in this thread from the PMQ Think Tank: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6169&hilit=.

Peter

Edit (12/7/11): Edited to note that one can of tomatoes and the half-onion are for four pizzas in a 12" x 17" pan and to correct the amounts of crushed tomatoes and onion to be used with an 8" x 10" pan.

Offline steel_baker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 180
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Western Pennsylvania
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2011, 08:53:39 AM »
Norma,

Just to add some local knowledge regarding VP pizza, it's not a heavily topped pizza. The star of this pizza is the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and the hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce. With that in mind, it's important to not use too much sauce or cheese. People who have done this (I think we all have that tendency when making pizza) find that the dough doesn't cook properly in the center. I am absolutely anal when it comes to "balance" in pizza. Too many restaurants that think they make wonderful pizza don't understand that a great pizza is one that is balanced. It must have a great crust and the proper (as in not too much) topping.

The mouth feel of this pizza has a crispy bottom and a soft rich top. The juxtaposition of those textures combined with the flavor is one of the qualities in this pizza that makes it so amazing and makes people come back for it again & again.

I take it from your location that you're in SE PA, probably in Berks, Adams, or Lancaster County. This would put Victory Pig at only a 2 hr drive for you. Take a drive up to the Victory Pig BBQ in Wyoming sometime & check it out.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 08:56:08 AM by steel_baker »
steel_baker  :chef:

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21142
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2011, 09:27:20 AM »
Norma,

I know you aren't crazy about math, but the calculation for the cheese blend is (8 x 10)/(12 x 17) x 8 = 3.14 ounces, or about 79.5 grams. Half of that will be cheddar and the other half will be the mozzarella cheese.

You didn't ask how much crushed tomato or onion or peanut oil to use with your 8" x 10" pan, but the ratio of the areas of the two pans, 0.392, also applies to those three items.

So:

Crushed tomatoes = 0.392 x 28 ounces = 10.98 ounces (or 11 ounces rounded), or about 311 grams, by weight
Onion = 0.392 x 1/2 onion = 0.195, or about a fifth of an onion
Peanut oil (1 1/2 to 2 ounces, by volume, for the pan) = 0.392 x 1.5 = 0.59 ounces to 0.392 x 2 = 0.784 ounces, by volume (this is about 3 3/4 t. to about 5 t.)

The same approach applies to round pizzas also, as you can see from Tom Lehmann's posts in this thread from the PMQ Think Tank: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6169&hilit=.

Peter


Peter,

It isn’t that I am not crazy about math, but never learned to understand how to do math, except for easy math problems.  I would need a tutor at my age to be able to understand how to do anything other than easy math. 

Thanks for doing the calculations for the cheddar mozzarella blend, crushed tomatoes, onions, and peanut oil to use for the 8”x10” steel pan.

Thanks also for the link where Tom Lehmann also explains amounts for round pizzas.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21142
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2011, 09:47:00 AM »
Norma,

Just to add some local knowledge regarding VP pizza, it's not a heavily topped pizza. The star of this pizza is the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and the hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce. With that in mind, it's important to not use too much sauce or cheese. People who have done this (I think we all have that tendency when making pizza) find that the dough doesn't cook properly in the center. I am absolutely anal when it comes to "balance" in pizza. Too many restaurants that think they make wonderful pizza don't understand that a great pizza is one that is balanced. It must have a great crust and the proper (as in not too much) topping.

The mouth feel of this pizza has a crispy bottom and a soft rich top. The juxtaposition of those textures combined with the flavor is one of the qualities in this pizza that makes it so amazing and makes people come back for it again & again.

I take it from your location that you're in SE PA, probably in Berks, Adams, or Lancaster County. This would put Victory Pig at only a 2 hr drive for you. Take a drive up to the Victory Pig BBQ in Wyoming sometime & check it out.



steel_baker,

Thanks for adding some local knowledge regarding VP pizza.  I would like to taste the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce.  I can understand why it is important not to use too much sauce or cheese.  I agree that many restaurants think they can make wonderful pizza, but really don’t understand what a great pizza is. 

My location is in Lancaster County.  I will have to see if I can persuade my daughter into driving me to Wyoming to try a real VP pizza.  She has driven me to Wildwood, NJ, Washington DC, and NY different times to try pizzas.  I guess I am what can be called a pizza addict (I hate to admit that  :-D), in that I want to be able to understand how great pizzas taste and also want to learn what goes into making really good pizzas.

I am not sure how my VP attempt will go the first time because my pan is new and I will be using a deck oven baking at 525 degrees F. (that is the temperature I bake my normal pies at market)  If my first attempt doesn’t work, I will try your VP recipe in my home oven.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline communist

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 482
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2011, 08:57:09 AM »
Norma, Did you get a chance to bake the VP style pizza yesterday?  I was concerned about cooking the pie at 525 - I think there is a good chance the oil will burn.  I believe Peter has written about sources for the blue steel pans where you can order them individually through Northern Pizza Supply.  I am still debating whether I will try to duplicate at home.  I am near Victory Pig, and many other shops duplicate the greasy, crunchy crust of the style sometimes referred to as bakery pizza.  It is a welcome and tasty variation.  Mark

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21142
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2011, 09:12:14 AM »
Norma, Did you get a chance to bake the VP style pizza yesterday?  I was concerned about cooking the pie at 525 - I think there is a good chance the oil will burn.  I believe Peter has written about sources for the blue steel pans where you can order them individually through Northern Pizza Supply.  I am still debating whether I will try to duplicate at home.  I am near Victory Pig, and many other shops duplicate the greasy, crunchy crust of the style sometimes referred to as bakery pizza.  It is a welcome and tasty variation.  Mark

Mark,

I did make an attempt at the Victory Pig pizza yesterday and I used 525 degrees F baked on the deck.  After I resize the pictures and write-up what happened, I will post the pictures.

I have to read back though this thread, because I used 11 oz. of crushed tomatoes and that seemed like way too much sauce to be added.  The amount of cheese added seemed right at 3.14 ounces.  I used 5 teaspoons of peanut oil and that also seemed about right.  

Norma
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 10:50:08 AM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline steel_baker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 180
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Western Pennsylvania
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2011, 09:21:47 AM »
Norma,

Wow, 11 oz of crushed tomato sauce per pie is definitely way too much. I am able to top (4) 12x17 trays with a 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes. If you're using 8x10 pans, just using the ratio based upon the area of the pans you should be using (28/4) x .39 = 2.73oz of crushed tomatoes per pie. This is based upon the act that the area of an 8x10 pan is 39% of the area of a 12x17 pan.

s_b
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21682
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2011, 09:46:07 AM »
Ah. Now I see what happened. When I looked at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg160058.html#msg160058 and Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161538.html#msg161538, all I saw was one can of tomatoes in relation to a 12" x 17" pan and no reference to that quantity being for several pizzas. However, had I been more alert, I should have known when I posted Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg162256.html#msg162256 that about 11 ounces of tomatoes was far too much for an 8" x 10" pan.

It might also help to know if the half onion is also enough for several pizzas or whether that is the correct amount for just a single pizza.

Peter

Offline steel_baker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 180
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Western Pennsylvania
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2011, 10:14:52 AM »
Ah. Now I see what happened. When I looked at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg160058.html#msg160058 and Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161538.html#msg161538, all I saw was one can of tomatoes in relation to a 12" x 17" pan and no reference to that quantity being for several pizzas. However, had I been more alert, I should have known when I posted Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg162256.html#msg162256 that about 11 ounces of tomatoes was far too much for an 8" x 10" pan.

It might also help to know if the half onion is also enough for several pizzas or whether that is the correct amount for just a single pizza.

Peter


Peter, the 1/2 onion is for mixing with an entire can of crushed tomatoes. This much onion in a 28oz can of crushed tomatoes will top (4) 12x17 pans of pizza. My fault, I still think as a home pizza baker and eyeball my toppings rather than measure. I know that if I ever decide to start making & selling this pizza in my area I'll need to be precise in my ingredient amounts to maintain flavor & consistency from tray to tray.

s_b
steel_baker  :chef:

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21142
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2011, 10:56:50 AM »
Norma,

Wow, 11 oz of crushed tomato sauce per pie is definitely way too much. I am able to top (4) 12x17 trays with a 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes. If you're using 8x10 pans, just using the ratio based upon the area of the pans you should be using (28/4) x .39 = 2.73oz of crushed tomatoes per pie. This is based upon the act that the area of an 8x10 pan is 39% of the area of a 12x17 pan.

s_b

steel_baker,

I thought when I looked at the 11 ounces of crushed tomatoes that would be way too much to add, when I know how much sauce I add to my regular pizzas. I had watched your video and saw you didn’t add much crushed tomatoes with onions to your VP pie. I should have gone on my instincts.  :-D I also used 1/5 of a big Spanish onion chopped fine which was way too much for my tastes, but some of my taste testers did like that amount of crushed onions added.  

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


 

pizzapan