Author Topic: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza  (Read 41514 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #175 on: October 01, 2014, 10:15:35 PM »
Wonder how Lydia is doing......she is a really nice gal.   :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #176 on: October 03, 2014, 01:17:05 AM »
Don - I didn't realize I had a cyber stalker out there! LOL you crack me up. It's great to hear that it motivated you to stay up late on your computer! I hope you weren't too bummed out when the smoking gun wasn't revealed? As you have seen from the journey, they days of "that smell" are more than likely gone.  I have been to many, many pizza places in the time since, but nothing compares to how special it was in the 80's and early 90's (Probably back in the 70's too.) I'd go so far as to call it the golden age of west coast pizza.

I was forced to find my own way and what I have is good, but it could always be better. I am still taking swings however. I have some pies tomorrow testing an engineered sourdough starter made with LH100 and ADY. LH100 is typically used in making hard cheeses like parmaesan and romano. I have been culturing it for weeks now. It has a slight "buttery" ester profile that this strain is known for, but it's not "THAT smell". Having cultured these lactobacilli and experiencing how differently they smell, taste, etc., I am still convinced that it's a special strain of yeast or sourdough culture. I'll throw up some shots of the engineered sourdough pizza tomorrow. Oh and if it went unnoticed, thanks for the kind comments.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 01:27:52 AM by DNA Dan »

Offline Donjo911

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #177 on: October 03, 2014, 11:28:50 AM »
Thanks Dan! I appreciate your reply!  The new Cultured yeast experiments sound great. I can't wait to see your results. I too dig the cultured yeasts. Your comments and discussion of the bit of yesterday's old dough being incorporated into the new days dough was, for me, an early insight into how much fermentation played a role in the taste, and smell, of pizza!  Thanks again and have a great weekend!
Cheers,
Don
I have done wrong.. but what I did, I thought needed to be done.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #178 on: October 03, 2014, 11:47:11 AM »
Funny thing is, I don't think most operators realized what they were doing by recycling dough. Most just did it because they had a sizeable amount of dough left over at the end of the day. It was a way to pass off old stuff without wasting profits.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #179 on: October 05, 2014, 01:22:37 AM »
We'll after a busy weekend I finally have some down time to reflect on the engineered sourdough culture I made. For the dough formulation I used ~200 grams 50/50 fed 4 hour starter with ~100g water. I completely left the Red Hook beer out of the recipe. Everything else went in the dough. I have switched to using ADY for the recipe, no changes in amount. Dough fermented for 48 hours, laminated then cooked 5 hours later.

I have to say I was a little disappointed by the oven spring. This surprised me because I still used yeast in the dough formulation in addition to the starter.  The dough acted almost like it wasn't even laminated. Puffy edge, flat middle. It tasted about what I would expect a sourdough pizza to taste like. No magic bullet in terms of flavor, but it did have a little sour tang to it. Most probably lactic acid is what I was tasting. Seemed to be a bit less tender than my usual laminated recipe. Still good eats.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #180 on: October 06, 2014, 12:17:05 PM »
Dan,

Nice photos.  Good to see you are still in the game.  I made an RT clone this past weekend that came out great as always (no photos, though).

In your mention of the lack of oven spring, how much yeast did you use? 

I am wondering if the competition between your starter and the yeast might have had something to do with it.

Best regards,

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #181 on: October 06, 2014, 04:24:30 PM »
I used 3g ADY which is just under 0.7% total formulation. I also made the regular recipe with the same yeast, so I know the yeast was good. I could tell in the fridge that the "experimental" dough was not getting puffy or fermenting well. I think perhaps the acidity of the sourdough starter killed or inhibited them. It didn't seem THAT sour, then again I used 200g in the formulation, which I think is a pretty high amount? Another aspect of the sourdough culture I made is I don't know how well the yeast fared in it. I meant I could have just been culturing lactobacillus. It would increase in volume after feeding, but no so much that it was 3 or 4 times the volume. It would just about double. Anyway, the Red Hook ESB is really something special. I can use it to replace the water 100%, add yeast directly to it, and it still grows fantastic.


Offline Lydia

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #182 on: November 17, 2014, 04:40:46 PM »

DAN


your pies are looking SO good  :drool:



Wonder how Lydia is doing......she is a really nice gal.   :chef:


Hey ALL



I'm not dead "yet"...but man....the weather is kickin' my butt. I seriously wasn't prepared for ice storms in the south, let alone 3 day long tornado outbreaks!  :o  (BTW watching the radar during one of those is just like playing Atari Astroids but your joystick stopped workin' ...you just sit there and pray you don't get hit.  :-D ) In March and April I only had 2-3 no stress days a week while the weather flip-flopped between ice and tornados.


I'm starting to get the hang of it all though.  :-\


But other than that, I DO love it here. The people are great. It's a bit of a time warp for ingredients which is really cool. Red wax cheese, whole milk cultured buttermilk, pork jowel, real string beans, carnation "chocolate" malt, and "meat" OMG I can eat meat again.  ;D [size=78%]  [/size]


I never "EVER" want to eat nasty "california beef" ever again. Not by choice I was nearly vegetarian, now I'm scarfing down triple steak burgers. Its so liberating  :chef:


I miss CAL-mex and california style pizza and C&H sugar.


I'm trying..really trying to get back on the pizza boards. I miss it. I've got a lot or board reading to catch-up though.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #183 on: November 17, 2014, 11:11:14 PM »
Good to hear all is swell Lydia....pm me if you get desperate enough for me to send some C&H sugar your way.  :)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline Lydia

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #184 on: November 19, 2014, 08:57:50 AM »
Good to hear all is swell Lydia....pm me if you get desperate enough for me to send some C&H sugar your way.  :)


Thanks   ;D ...sent a PM
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #185 on: November 19, 2014, 10:00:56 AM »
About the deactivated yeast, I came across something that said "cultured flour" was used in "clean label" breads as a preservative, if the wholesale bakery did not want to use calcium propionate and thus have to declare it on the label.


For current Shakeys...I'm going to agree with the direction your going here. Deactivated yeast has the wrong flavor and aroma....BUT autoysed yeast extract, if its the correct type will give off a parmesan-romano  type flavor and aroma. (other types will give off beef or chicken like flavors) I have no clue on how to obtain it other than through prepackaged mixes like Knorr Bullion.

But for Vintage Shakeys.....There was a time that I had "that flavor" and "that aroma". It was when I had "aging/old"  High gluten malted bread flour stored at extremely high temps around 85- 90 F in a sunroom during summer. So alot like storing flour in a commercial kitchen.
:chef:

Everyone kept asking me HOW I got "that flavor". :-[

I really think that looking into aging and/or high temperature fermenting of malted barely flour (not sourdough culture) is the "real key". Something to do with manipulating the enzymes in the Barley Flour.

I also recall that the flour behaved differently too. It was crispier in a dry crunchy way and had more "tug" to the bite than it had before the abuse.

------------------------------

A local old-school mom n pop place is using a flour with calcium propionate, and baking on deck ovens. Boy o boy, their crusts are as close to vintage Shakeys as I've had in decades.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Zing

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #186 on: December 05, 2014, 10:56:03 AM »
Lydia, that post of yours got me to thinking. As I mentioned in one of the Shakey's threads, the 2013 samples of Shakey's (brought back shortly after I wrote the paragraph you referenced above) did NOT have "That Smell".

Let me formulate my thoughts and then post entries to the major Shakey's threads in case some of the ex-employees remember how various types of dough abuse affected the taste of the final pies. As the chef-turned-cash and carry manager at a foodservice house once told me, "Even if you have the recipe, technique can make it taste different".

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Malty Laminated Beer Pizza
« Reply #187 on: December 08, 2014, 02:29:15 PM »
Lydia, that post of yours got me to thinking. As I mentioned in one of the Shakey's threads, the 2013 samples of Shakey's (brought back shortly after I wrote the paragraph you referenced above) did NOT have "That Smell".

Let me formulate my thoughts and then post entries to the major Shakey's threads in case some of the ex-employees remember how various types of dough abuse affected the taste of the final pies. As the chef-turned-cash and carry manager at a foodservice house once told me, "Even if you have the recipe, technique can make it taste different".

Zing,

There are 2 possible reasons for that lack of smell (and I know of what you are talking about because I have eaten at the Shakey's in Anaheim twice). 
1) Change in the flour formulation.  I was informed in 2012 that Round Table and Shakey's had reformulated their doughs to meet California food regulations regarding fat content.
2) The use of conveyor ovens instead of deck ovens.  I noticed in Anaheim they use the conveyor ovens.  I have also been to the Shakey's in Oroville and they still use the old deck oven (at least they did in 2010 and 2012).  I found 'that smell' to be more noticeable at that location.

-ME
Let them eat pizza.