Shakeys pizza & some tips

[Mad_Ernie]

Cool!  Very nice.  Thanks for posting you trial and result.  I might have to give this recipe a try this coming weekend.

[Lydia]

BTW, I didn't have any shortening so I substituted margarine and it seemed to work fine. I also added a tiny bit more water too because it was so dry that I couldn't get it to stick together at all. That is with KABF.

I will definitely make this again. It's great because it's so quick.

Don

I like the result you got with this dough. Would you tell me a bit more about the margarine you used.
Did it come in a tub or cube form like butter.
What was the listed % of vegetable oil, it's on the label somewhere.
Is lecithin listed as an ingredient.
Did the packaging mention whether or not it was acceptable for baking?
oh yeah, was it cold when added to the dough?

Thanks a bunch.

[Chicago Bob]

Looking back at Don's cracker pic I am wondering how I missed that one. It does indeed have some excellent lamination/layering....good call in asking about the margarine Lydia. 
I'd like to try this one too....come on Colonel, please step up to the podium!   

[Don K]

....come on Colonel, please step up to the podium!  

Thanks Bob...what an honor...I'd like to thank the academy...

The margarine was Parkay sticks. I have no idea what the vegetable oil percentage is, or whether it has lecithin. I don't currently have any in the fridge to look. If I remember right, I softened it a little in the microwave first.

[Chicago Bob]

The margarine was Parkay sticks. I have no idea what the vegetable oil percentage is, or whether it has lecithin.

Spoken like the true Master Pizzoli that you are Klink!!  
Never give away ALL the secrets.....

[Lydia]

Thanks a bunch Colonel, VERY helpful.  

Here's the breakdown:

Parkay: Sticks 65% Vegetable Oil Spread, 16 Oz

Liquid Soybean Oil, Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Water, Whey, Salt, Vegetable Mono- And Diglycerides And Soy Lecithin (Emulsifiers), Potassium Sorbate And Sodium Benzoate (To Preserve Freshness), Artificial Flavor, Phosphoric Acid (Acidulant), Vitamin A Palmitate, Colored With Beta Carotene (Source Of Vitamin A). Contains: Milk, Soy

This is a spread not a true margarine. According to USDA regulations, butter and margarine must contain at least 80% fat. Therefore interchangeable in recipes. The USDA does not specify how much fat should be in the spreads category, so the fat content varies between brands.

Only true margarine is acceptable for baking, margarine spread are not due to the high water content.

Changing to "margarine spread" has added a lot of dough conditioners/enhancers and the hydration was changed up a bit.

[Chicago Bob]

Thanks a bunch Colonel, VERY helpful.  

Here's the breakdown:
This is a spread not a true margarine. According to USDA regulations, butter and margarine must contain at least 80% fat. Therefore interchangeable in recipes. The USDA does not specify how much fat should be in the spreads category, so the fat content varies between brands.

Only true margarine is acceptable for baking, margarine spread are not due to the high water content.

Changing to "margarine spread" has added a lot of dough conditioners/enhancers and the hydration was changed up a bit.

Lydia,
Do you think regular 'ol margarine is close enough to a spread for this "accident" ?  


"Changing to "margarine spread" has added a lot of dough conditioners/enhancers and the hydration was changed up a bit."

[Don K]

Changing to "margarine spread" has added a lot of dough conditioners/enhancers and the hydration was changed up a bit.

The Parkay may have upped the hydration, but I still had to add a little more water than the original recipe called for. Before I did, I couldn't get any cohesion at all. Then next time, and only other time I made this, I upped the hydration a little more and it didn't turn out nearly as well. I think the key is to keep hydration as low as possible...just above where it won't stick together.

[Chicago Bob]

The Parkay may have upped the hydration, but I still had to add a little more water than the original recipe called for. Before I did, I couldn't get any cohesion at all. Then next time, and only other time I made this, I upped the hydration a little more and it didn't turn out nearly as well. I think the key is to keep hydration as low as possible...just above where it won't stick together.

Why thank you most gracious Academy Award winner....

[DNA Dan]

I think the key is to keep hydration as low as possible...just above where it won't stick together.

This is my observations as well. This minimal hydration point is also different for different flours.

[Lydia]

Opps, maybe I should clarify.

Parky, is no longer "margarine" it is a "spread stick" (65% Vegetable Oil Spread). It has been for quite a while now. If you look, it will be very difficult to find a true margarine (80%Vegetable Oil).

Does the small amount of enhancing ingredients matter..in my experience, yes. I intentionally use it in small amounts to manipulate recipes all the time. Even the small amount of lecithin in Pam spray that I used to coat my bowl to allow dough to double, improves the texture of my yeast doughs. It tightens and softens the crumb. It's one of my "secrets" so to speak.

Hopefully I understood your question correctly. If not please let me know.

[Don K]

If you look, it will be very difficult to find a true margarine (80%Vegetable Oil).

Fleischmann's has sticks that are true margarine.

[Lydia]

That's good to know.

Fleischmann's isn't to be found in my neck of the woods, I've found a store brand with Save Mart and other store's have Gold N Soft for baking.

[Lydia]

The Parkay may have upped the hydration, but I still had to add a little more water than the original recipe called for. Before I did, I couldn't get any cohesion at all. Then next time, and only other time I made this, I upped the hydration a little more and it didn't turn out nearly as well. I think the key is to keep hydration as low as possible...just above where it won't stick together.

That's good to know, I'd like to duplicate your results you got.
So my next question is, which flour did you use?

[Don K]

KABF

[Lydia]

Perfect.

Thanks

[Chicago Bob]

Opps, maybe I should clarify.

Parky, is no longer "margarine" it is a "spread stick" (65% Vegetable Oil Spread). It has been for quite a while now. If you look, it will be very difficult to find a true margarine (80%Vegetable Oil).

Does the small amount of enhancing ingredients matter..in my experience, yes. I intentionally use it in small amounts to manipulate recipes all the time. Even the small amount of lecithin in Pam spray that I used to coat my bowl to allow dough to double, improves the texture of my yeast doughs. It tightens and softens the crumb. It's one of my "secrets" so to speak.

Hopefully I understood your question correctly. If not please let me know.

Thank you for your info on your use of the "enhancers" and the secret tip about the lecithin in Pam spray, Lydia,going to try that one.
You caused me to take a look at the soft "margarine" I've been using for YEARS. It is Shedd's spread "Country Crock" and is only 53% veg. oil!   I guess that means there is a boatload of WATER in that stuff... Is there something else that I could be using that will have more/better flavor? I do use butter quite a lot but like having the soft tub-o-whatever it is as an option too.
Thanks!

[Lydia]

Thank you for your info on your use of the "enhancers" and the secret tip about the lecithin in Pam spray, Lydia,going to try that one.
You caused me to take a look at the soft "margarine" I've been using for YEARS. It is Shedd's spread "Country Crock" and is only 53% veg. oil!   I guess that means there is a boatload of WATER in that stuff... Is there something else that I could be using that will have more/better flavor? I do use butter quite a lot but like having the soft tub-o-whatever it is as an option too.
Thanks!

Are you asking "in general" for baking or for the "cracker style" specifically?

[Chicago Bob]

Are you asking "in general" for baking or for the "cracker style" specifically?

Just in general Lydia....you know, like the tub of Country Crock I leave on the counter(along side the stick of unsalted butter that is in a little glass covered butter dish). Wondering if there is a better flavored "product" than the CC. Thanks.
Bob

[DNA Dan]

LARD