Author Topic: My First Pizza - Please Help  (Read 3231 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2011, 05:13:15 PM »
Don,

Azodicarbonamide is used in flour to bleach and strengthen it. The only times I have seen it is in Mexican flours. It apparently replaces bromates: http://www.garudaint.com/product.php?id=86. From what I have read, it is outlawed in certain countries, like Australia and Europe.

Peter





buceriasdon

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2011, 05:31:41 PM »
A HA!, Good job Peter finding that site, as always. I will tell my baker friends this info. Very interesting, well at least to me as it's been there in front of me all this time! Also Peter I just looked at some other flour and all it says is ADA, evidently it's abbreveation.
Don



Don,

Azodicarbonamide is used in flour to bleach and strengthen it. The only times I have seen it is in Mexican flours. It apparently replaces bromates: http://www.garudaint.com/product.php?id=86. From what I have read, it is outlawed in certain countries, like Australia and Europe.

Peter




« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 05:35:38 PM by buceriasdon »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2011, 05:56:21 PM »
I just looked at some other flour and all it says is ADA, evidently it's abbreveation.

Don,

That is correct. That is the abbreviation.

Peter

Offline chickenparm

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2011, 07:53:43 PM »
Peter,

The High Gluten Primo Gusto flour at GFS,( Gordons Food market place)the Frozen Primo Gusto doughballs are made with this same flour,have the ADA in them.
It was on the label along with L-Cysteine.

Those are the same frozen dough balls I experimented with,and made a topic about a while back.Just wanted to share I have seen it as well,but only on that particular Primo Gusto Label.

Did not mean to go off topic too much,just passing some info along.
 :)
-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2011, 07:59:37 PM »
Don,
Your pizzas you posted look great!
 :pizza:

Matt,

I made a no added salt-doughball last night and its been in the fridge since then.I went to check on it and it looks like every things going the way it should.Its a nice size,shape and color now.

I could probably make a pizza with it tonight,but I will most likely make it tomorrow,to give the dough more time to ferment and cold rise.Whichever I decide,I will take plenty of pics and post back after its done.
 :)



-Bill

Offline hammettjr

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2011, 09:06:38 PM »
Hi All,
Peter, I understand that even without the salt restriction it would not be easy for me to clone a NY pizza, and I will need to be flexible.  When I was in college I occasionally ate Papa Johns and enjoyed it  Ė if I ended up making a thinner version of PJ, Iíd probably be happy.  The recipe in my first post was used for two separate 12 inch pizzas (note they were roughly 12 inches, maybe a bit smaller). Perhaps they were too thin, but the 3rd picture I posted does not look that thin to my untrained eye.  Iím not sure yet which recipe I want to try this weekend.  Iím certainly open to try which you think will be best for me given my current skill level. 

Don, your pizza looks great! Thank you very much for the link to the salt substitutes. I will definitely try them.

Chickenparm, I look forward to seeing your pics!

Thanks again,
Matt

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2011, 09:24:00 PM »
Matt,

I would first like to see what Bill ends up with since he has been playing around with the NY style for some time. He is also using a fairly long cold fermentation, which is a major departure from the two recipes I analyzed, both of which seem to be for short-term doughs. I'd also like to see Bill's final recipe if he succeeds with a long, cold fermentation.

Peter

Offline chickenparm

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2011, 10:57:21 PM »
Matt,

I would first like to see what Bill ends up with since he has been playing around with the NY style for some time. He is also using a fairly long cold fermentation, which is a major departure from the two recipes I analyzed, both of which seem to be for short-term doughs. I'd also like to see Bill's final recipe if he succeeds with a long, cold fermentation.

Peter

Thanks for the nice words Peter!
 :)

I hope I am able to contribute some more good info to this forum with doughs that do not have any added salt.I hope the longer fermentation times helps with the dough structure and flavor as well.
Will keep you all posted.
 :)


-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2011, 04:17:43 PM »
I made the no salt pizza dough topic at this link below.Come here to read and go to the pics of the pizzas.
 :)
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13335.new.html#new

-Bill

Offline hammettjr

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2011, 02:05:38 PM »
This weekend couldnít come fast enough!
Last night I used Billís recipe to make dough for two 12-inch pizzas.
Today Iím making a simple uncooked sauce using the can of Cento tomatoes my wife found at Trader Joes. (It has 20mg of sodium in a Ĺ cup, the same as the Muir Glen puree I was using.)
Iím planning to make the pizzas tomorrow night, but thereís a chance Iíll get anxious and make them tonight.  Iíll take plenty of pics.

Matt


buceriasdon

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2011, 02:27:35 PM »
Matt, Looking forward to the results.
Don

Offline hammettjr

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2011, 09:52:31 PM »
Thanks Don. I posted my results in Bill's No Salt thread on the NY page. I just looked at the pictures of your dough and crumb again - I really have a lot of work to do!
Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2011, 01:18:00 PM »
you might want to use some salt in the dough, maybe 1-1.25%, and omit the salt in the pizza sauce and use low-sodium cheese. I think I would go this route rather than trying to modify your baking protocol. We can address that issue if the above recommendations do not work.

Do you guys think a (very) small amount of salt would help my dough? (Whether for fermentation, flavor or other reasons). Maybe I should ask, what is the minimum amount of salt that would be beneficial? At this point I donít want to reduce the amount of cheese on my pizza, which means ideally Iíd only add 1/32 of a teaspoon of salt. For a 14 pizza, thatís about 0.06% in baker's percentages. (1/16 tsp is 0.12%, about a tenth of Peterís recommendation above.)

If this wonít help, Iím happy to continue with my no salt dough. It is much better than I hoped thanks to you guys!

Thanks,
Matt

buceriasdon

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2011, 01:47:39 PM »
Matt, Good to hear from you again. I myself doubt that such a small amount of salt will have much effect on the fermentation side of the equation. Of course if adding the salt you can still keep your target of 300mg. total sodium, you might get a slight taste improvement, as your diet is low sodium you would naturally be more sensitive to the taste of salt. If you find you can't detect the salt, then go back to the present recipe that is working for you. Tinkering is fun.
Don

Offline hammettjr

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2011, 02:05:06 PM »
Thanks Don. Good point, you know from experience how our sensitivity to salt changes, I'll experiment a bit. I'm going to go ahead and place an order for small measuring spoons so I'll have them in time for next weekend.

Matt

buceriasdon

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2011, 02:32:02 PM »
Matt, Cool, keep us informed please.
Don

Offline hammettjr

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2011, 02:42:14 PM »
Absolutely, will do Don. I'll continue posting updates of my progress in the No Salt thread in the NY page. This question I thought was more appropriate for the newbie page, and I wanted to quote Peter's comment.

Matt

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2011, 05:16:28 PM »
Do you guys think a (very) small amount of salt would help my dough? (Whether for fermentation, flavor or other reasons). Maybe I should ask, what is the minimum amount of salt that would be beneficial?

Matt,

As you will note from the Pizza FAQ document that Tom Lehmann prepared for the American Institute of Baking (AIB), at https://www.aibonline.org/researchandtechnical/faqs/pizza.html, if you use less than 1% salt, according to Tom you are likely to end up with a very bland crust. Of course, this is for people who are not on a sodium-restricted diet. Remember, also, that just about all normal pizza cheeses and many sauces also include salt. So, the total sodium content will generally be higher. I saw a commercial recipe recently where I calculated the salt to be a bit over 1%. I would say that that amount is perhaps on the low side for commercial doughs. Tom himself usually recommends 1.75% in the cases that I can recall, and I have seen quite a few.

Peter

Offline hammettjr

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2011, 06:07:11 PM »
Thank you for the link Peter. I didnít realize that adding oil to the sauce helps keep the favor of the seasonings when it bakes. (I do include oil, but it thought it was more for flavor and texture.)
Iíll experiment with small amounts of salt in the dough. Maybe Iíll end up with a very bland crust instead of a very, very bland crust :D
Matt

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My First Pizza - Please Help
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2011, 06:48:37 PM »
Matt,

If you take a look at Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.msg67196/topicseen.html#msg67196, you can read more about the role of oil that is on the surface of the dough, either in a pan/disk, applied topically, or as part of a sauce. You can read about the role of oil in the dough at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7915.msg67933.html#msg67933.

Peter