Author Topic: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?  (Read 15389 times)

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Offline sadiamond

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2006, 05:54:13 PM »
25 miles south of San Francisco? Yep, I'd say that's high rent all right! But other than Amici's and Speederia, an independent shop in San Carlos (California) that sells by the slice and is quite awesome, the pizza here not-a so good!


Offline scott r

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2006, 02:41:50 AM »
It is a little bit of a drive, but I would love to hear your opinion of Pizzaiolo in Oakland.  I got to the restaurant while I was vacationing in the area, but the wait was too long for the people I was with.  I can say that the pies looked amazing, and the wood burning oven appeared to be rocking hotter than the one over at a16.  It also comes highly recommended by some friends of mine who know good food.

Offline sebdesn

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2006, 12:13:23 PM »
One additional comment about the flours...There are differences in the additives in various flours that make a difference in how they perform.
Peter mentioned that KASL has no additives. I have been using a conagra high Gluten and it has malted barley flour,potassium bromate ,thiamine, riboflaven, and folic acid added. The malted barley increases the yeast activity substantially , and the bromate strengthens the gluten.
  I also use a high and a medium gluten from a local mill that is organic and has no additives , and the difference is amazing. I notice the changes mostly in s/d bread,but in pizza dough as well.
Bud

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2006, 03:00:53 PM »
Bud,

The King Arthur KASL flour also has malted barley flour and the B vitamins you mentioned. The only bromated flour that King Arthur sells is the cake flour. Some bakers actually prefer the bromated flours for their purposes (it keeps the dough from falling between proofing and baking). See POTASSIUM BROMATE in the Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html.

Peter

Offline deblacksmith

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2006, 08:56:05 PM »
Pizzageek, a lady at King Arthur told me that there was no Sir Lancelot available at the retail level.

I live in the backwoods of North Carolina, and we happen to have a lot of home bread makers around here -- and we have a retail store that specializes in supply these folks.  He sells Sir Lancelot in either the 50 pound bags or breaks down and repacks in smaller packages.  His supply is not direct from KA but through a Amish firm in PA. 
Sometimes we are just lucky.

Deblacksmith

Offline kgbenson

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2006, 10:15:18 PM »
Deblacksmith,

Where in NC are you?  I will be headed to Charlotte in a few weeks and would like to visit tis flour source if it is anywhere near there.

Keith

Offline PizzaBrewer

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2006, 10:47:44 PM »
Deblacksmith,

Where in NC are you?  I will be headed to Charlotte in a few weeks and would like to visit tis flour source if it is anywhere near there.

Keith

Keith:  Completely off-topic, but if you like fried seafood (and who doesn't?) you simply must visit nearby Gastonia when you're in Charlotte.  You'll find the unique tradition of "fish camps", there are several competing ones that each provide outstanding fried fish in stupendous quantities.  Here's a link to some pictures of my last visit:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=64682&hl=gastonia

Not to mention the barbecue tradition found around Winston-Salem/Lexington/Greensboro.

North Carolina is quite a food-lover's treasure.

---Guy
« Last Edit: January 22, 2006, 11:08:33 PM by PizzaBrewer »
Man does not live by bread alone.  There's also tomato, cheese and pepperoni.

Offline sadiamond

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2006, 11:51:26 PM »
Scott R--I don't get up to Oaktown too often, but I've heard of Pizzaiolo. And here's why. Restaurant reviewer Michael Buaer of the San Francisco Chronicle rated it one of his top ten restaurants (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/01/CMGQIF5VJ71.DTL#pizza&type=food). So I definitely want to get up there, but probably won't happen soon.

Also, what town constitutes the backwoods of North Carolina? Is it within an hour of Asheville?

And yet another question for anyone in the audience: can I freely substitute "bread flour" such as King Arthur's, for unbleached white...in recipes?



Thanks!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2006, 06:52:25 AM »
sadiamond,

I assume that your question about substituting bread flour for all-purpose flour is in the context of pizza doughs. If so, there are a lot of pizza doughs/recipes where bread flour can be used instead of all-purpose flour. Usually the question is turned around and people want to know if they can substitute all-purpose flour--which is available everywhere--for bread flour, or even high-gluten flour.

I personally might not be inclined to substitute bread flour for all-purpose flour in deep-dish doughs although I am aware that there are recipes out there that do call for bread flour for deep-dish. Often the answer to your question has to do with personal taste and preferences. Our members are constantly experimenting with using different flours for different pizza styles and will freely deviate from what most recipes call for in the way of flour. Some members work only with all-purpose flour for all pizza styles, whereas others target their flour selections to specific pizza types. Consequently, it is hard to generalize.

Peter


Offline sadiamond

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2006, 01:25:15 PM »
Thanks Peter. Yes, the question was in the context of pizza doughs.

I'm definitely a thinner crust and NOT a deep dish dude. One other question....for recipes that call for instant yeast (I have the regular stuff from Red Star), how to accommodate that? Just take a small batch of warm water and add a packet of the regular yeast, wait several minutes until it foams, and then combine with the remaining "called for" portion of water?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2006, 01:59:24 PM »
sadiamond,

To use IDY, you just mix it in with the flour. It doesn't require proofing in water. To use ADY, you mix it in with some warm water, at around 105-115 degrees F, for about 10 minutes, and then mix it in with the rest of the water called for by the recipe in question. If a recipe calls for IDY and you want to use ADY, you multiply the amount of IDY, by volume (e.g., teaspoons), by 1.5

Peter

Offline sadiamond

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2006, 03:03:51 PM »
Peter--I'm really sorry (too much cheese in the brain apparently), but I don't understand your last sentence. If I want to use ADY in a recipe that calls for IDY:

1) How specifically does that conversion work? If it calls for 1 teaspoon of IDY, I'd use 1.5 teaspoons of ADY, correct?

2) OK then, but how much warm water would I dissolve the ADY in, or is that not terribly significant? E.G., "dissolve in 1/4 cup of warm water." Thanks!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2006, 03:11:47 PM »
sadiamond,

Your understanding of the conversion is correct.

The amount of the water for proofing ADY is not particularly critical for the amounts of yeast that most home recipes call for. About 1/4-1/2 cup is good enough.

Peter

Offline sadiamond

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2006, 05:57:21 PM »
Awesome. I love Mark Bittman's recipes in gen'l and his pizza dough recipe uses IDY. Thanks!

Offline ihavezippers

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2006, 03:16:00 PM »
Hey, thanks for the help.  I used this recipe to great success, at least with the crust.
However, once I got into it, I realized the Randy's recipe wasn't really specific, or I am just not very baker-smart.

I don't have it in front of me, but I remember the flour recipe was something like 2 c + 2 T + 1 t.  Those are defintely not the right numbers, but I wasn't exactly sure if c= cup, T=tablespoon, and t=teaspoon...and the fact that they were added together like that instead of in one lump measurement threw me off too. 

Also, I got a little confused on the step by step order.  I wasn't sure when to add what to what, and such.

Is there a recipe on this site for the novice, which step by step goes through the instructions?  Am I correct on my above question, about the measurements in Randy's recipe?
Again, the crust turned out great...but I was guessing throughout the process and only wonder if it could have been better had I correctly followed the instructions.  Thanks.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2006, 04:19:37 PM »
ihavezippers,

Can you tell me which specific recipe you were following? Things got disjointed when Randy’s original recipe was removed, and all that was left were pieces here and there. And, along the way, I started making thin versions of Randy’s American style based on a baker’s percent version that I came up with from Randy’s recipe. So, it would be easy for you to be confused if you haven’t followed the history of Randy’s recipe and its many iterations on the forum.

I am the one who uses the “system” of cups (c.), tablespoons (T.) and teaspoons (t.) that you referenced in your last post. I do this for the benefit of those who do not have digital scales. For the flour and water in my formulations, I weigh those ingredients and then convert them to volumes (cups, tablespoons and teaspoons). To use volumes to reproduce what I have done, you have to understand my methodology for measuring out volumes. You are new to the forum and perhaps haven't read how I do it and how I intend others to do it. So, for your benefit, here it is.

What I do to measure out volumes of flour is to start by stirring the flour in the bag of flour to loosen the flour. I then take an ordinary kitchen tablespoon and scoop flour into a measuring cup until it is slightly overfilled. I don’t shake or tamp the measuring cup. I then level off the top of the measuring cup with the flat edge of a knife. I do the same thing for measuring spoons. So, when I say to use 2 cups plus 3 tablespoons plus 1/2 teaspoon of flour, I intend that you measure them out just the way I described above. If you just dip the measuring cup and measuring spoons into the bag of flour, you most likely come out with different amounts of flour. Depending on whether you use a light hand or heavy hand in scooping out flour, or whether the flour is lightly packed or loosely packed, it can weigh more or less than what I intend. Even my system is not perfect, but it is the closest I know of for you to get close to the weights I use if you don’t have a scale and use volumes.

Although I don’t know which exact recipe you followed, I am not surprised that you got good results anyway. I have always said that Randy’s American style dough (and my thin versions) are almost foolproof. If you take to this pizza making thing, you may want to invest in a decent digital scale at some point. It will help you if you want to make doughs from recipes where the ingredients, and particularly the flour and water, are stated in weights. For the rest of the ingredients, like salt, yeast, sugar, and oil, volumes will usually suffice.

I don’t know if it will help, but recently I stumbled across another version of Randy’s American style dough at a Little Caesar’s thread at Reply #1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1515.0.html. The recipe is different than the ones I have been using for the thin versions, but it is very close to the original recipe and at least all the instructions seem to be in one place.

Peter

Offline ihavezippers

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2006, 04:50:33 PM »
Hey Peter, the Randy's recipe I used was one I am almost sure that you referenced to me...anyhow, it doesn't matter.  I understand the measurements now.  I guess I just need to find a procedural guide, but I am sure if I look closely enough through old posts, one will surface.  If you don't mind sharing, please post.

I had seen your comments earlier about using a knife to level off the measurements, and was doing that...I will try stirring the flour pre-withdrawal this time.  Thanks

One thing I momentarily struggled with was that I am using a pan for my pizzas...I don't have a pizza stone, let alone a pizza screen, or any of these other fantastic gizmos you pros have.  I usually make a deep dish pizza, about 2 or 3 inches deep and maybe 12 across.  I have a regular flat pizza pan as well.  As I previously mentioned, though, the crust turned out fantastic...the sauce almost made my wife and I sick, but that can be simply remedied by some other fantastic sauce recipe on this site (I plan to try the Little Caesar's sauce this Friday).


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2006, 05:37:03 PM »
ihavezippers,

Unfortunately, not all recipes conform to a single methodology for making doughs, and each person has his or her own preferred way of making the doughs. However, you might find this thread of value inasmuch as it is directed to some of the basics of making doughs, in this instance, a NY style: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.0.html. The techniques described there can be applied to Randy's formulation or the thin version that you apparently tried. For instance, the honey and sugar could be dissolved in the water along with the salt. Otherwise, the dough processing would be pretty much as described at the abovereferenced thread. However, if you want the true experience from practicing Randy's recipe, you can simply follow his instructions. You might even start, as I did, with the original recipe that makes a dough and resulting crust that is thicker than the ones I made. I was looking for more of a NY thin style version of Randy's recipe. I have liked all of the versions. In due course, you may want to invest in a few pizza screens. They are perfect for Randy's recipes, and they are very inexpensive (less than $4 for a 14- to16-inch screen).

Peter

Offline fredric100

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Re: High Gluten Flour in a grocery store?
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2011, 11:39:37 PM »
Regarding the original question about where to buy high-gluten flour in the Seattle area:  today I bought a 50-pound bag of King Arthur's Sir Lancelot high-gluten flour at Dawn baking supply (wholesale supplier) in Renton.  The 50-pound bag cost $27.90.  They were very friendly and helpful.  They distribute King Arthur products nationally, so I encourage you to check their other locations as well.

Dawn Food Products Inc.:
www(dot)dawnfoods(dot)com -> Distribution -> Locations

The Flour Sack also sells Sir Lancelot online, but The Flour Sack worked out to about twice the price, including the shipping.

The Flour Sack:
www(dot)floursack(dot)com