Author Topic: Homemade Dough Conditioner  (Read 29604 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2011, 07:03:43 PM »
Norma,

I don't think your numbers are correct based on my calculations. The reason is that the recommended amounts of the ingredients to use (the second table) are not all with respect to one cup of flour. Some are with respect to a loaf of bread, which for a normal loaf of bread comes to several cups of flour (I used 3 1/2 cups). That is why I had to normalize everything to one cup of flour. The way I would proceed is to take a multiple of the values of the ingredients given in the last table and weigh the ingredients on your scale, using grams. In the case of the ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), you may not be able to weigh it on your scale so you may need to convert its weight to a mini-measuring spoon measurement.

As an example, say that you decide to make five times the amount of the blend I showed in the last table. I would multiply the values of the individual ingredients and weigh them on the scale (except for the ascorbic acid). I would then combine them to form the blend. If you decide to use 2% of the blend with the flour weight you mentioned, 190.85 grams, then the weight of the blend you would use is 0.02 x 190.65g = 3.81g. I would weigh that amount on the scale and use it in your dough formulation. If you can't weight that amount on your scale accurately, you may have to make multiple weighings of a larger amount of the blend, for example, 1/8-cup or 1/4-cup, as before, and take the average.

Your conversion of 190.85g of flour is roughly correct. Assuming that a cup of flour is 4.25 oz as mentioned earlier, the 190.85g converts to 1.58 cups, or a bit less than 1 5/8 cups.

BTW, while you were attempting to come up with your blend, I took a stab at converting Malisa's blend to a baker's percent, based on using one tablespoon for a loaf of bread. Assuming that the one-quart quantity is accurate and that one tablespoon of her blend is used for a loaf of bread (I used 3 1/2 cups of flour), I came up with a baker's percent with respect to one cup of flour of 2.94%.

Peter


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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2011, 07:58:42 PM »
Peter,

I was in a hurry to try the blend tonight, and had an appointment to go to, so I guess I wasnít thinking and just used the second table and then decided to try and base that on using one cup of flour.   I wonít do the blend tonight, because there isnít enough time left today, but I will follow your instructions this week to make the blend for next week.

Thanks for explaining what I did wrong and helping me with the dough enhancer I want to experiment with.

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2011, 12:40:11 PM »
Peter,

I have been trying to figure out my blend, by using the last table you posted at Reply 36 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13385.msg133849.html#msg133849       
and I multiplied each ingredient in the blend 5 times in grams.  I then added the ingredients up and got 111.96 grams. What I donít understand is looking at your table for the Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten and Diastatic malt, why the numbers are the same in grams for those two ingredients, but different in ounces.  Is this an error, or something else I donít understand.  I then added all your total blend ingredients in ounces and got the same total weight you did in oz., but not in grams.  What I got in grams was 22.36 grams.

Before I continue to figure this out is there an explanation what happened?

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2011, 02:42:04 PM »
Before I continue to figure this out is there an explanation what happened?

Norma,

Yes, there is a very good explanation. I transcribed the wrong grams number for the vital wheat gluten from my handwritten notes. You will see that I corrected the error. FYI, to convert ounces to grams, all you need to do is multiply the ounce number by 28.35.

Peter

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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2011, 06:16:03 PM »
Letís see if I got the blend right this time. 

times 5 all in grams

lecithin granules                   34.5
high heat milk powder            64.65
Knox gelatin                          3.55
vital wheat gluten                 45.0
Diastatic Malt                        4.15
Vitamin C                      . 08

Total 151.93

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2011, 06:52:22 PM »
Norma,

What you posted seems to be correct except that I get 5 x 0.16 = 0.8 for the ascorbic acid (Vitamin C). With that change, I get a total weight of 152.65 grams. Your actual weight may be somewhat different (hopefully slight) because I used some published data for some of your ingredients, rather than actual weights since I do not have all of your ingredients to do my own weighings. If your scale cannot accurately weigh some of your final ingredients, you can use the conversion data in the first table at Reply 36 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13385.msg133849.html#msg133849 to convert them to volume measurements but you will have to first convert your weights to ounces (by dividing the grams values by 28.35). If you need help in converting the small amount of ascorbic acid to a volume measurement, let me know. You most likely will have to use a mini-measuring spoon for that measurement.

Peter

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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2011, 10:03:05 PM »
Norma,

What you posted seems to be correct except that I get 5 x 0.16 = 0.8 for the ascorbic acid (Vitamin C). With that change, I get a total weight of 152.65 grams. Your actual weight may be somewhat different (hopefully slight) because I used some published data for some of your ingredients, rather than actual weights since I do not have all of your ingredients to do my own weighings. If your scale cannot accurately weigh some of your final ingredients, you can use the conversion data in the first table at Reply 36 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13385.msg133849.html#msg133849 to convert them to volume measurements but you will have to first convert your weights to ounces (by dividing the grams values by 28.35). If you need help in converting the small amount of ascorbic acid to a volume measurement, let me know. You most likely will have to use a mini-measuring spoon for that measurement.

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for helping me again.  I did convert the grams into ounces, but I donít have a mini-measuring spoon.  I will look for one in my area, or order one online before I proceed with this project.

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2011, 10:15:38 PM »
I did convert the grams into ounces, but I donít have a mini-measuring spoon.  I will look for one in my area, or order one online before I proceed with this project.

Norma,

The 0.8 grams of ascorbic acid is convertible to (0.8/28.35)/0.15873 = 0.18 teaspoon. If you had a 1/16 teaspoon "pinch" mini-measuring spoon, you would get close to 0.18 teaspoon by using three of that mini-measuring spoon. However, if you use 1 1/2 of a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon, which is a common size, you should get the same amount. The difference is that you would have to estimate a half of a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon. I would use this approach in your case rather than waiting to get a set of mini-measuring spoons.

Peter

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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2011, 11:10:37 PM »
Norma,

The 0.8 grams of ascorbic acid is convertible to (0.8/28.35)/0.15873 = 0.18 teaspoon. If you had a 1/16 teaspoon "pinch" mini-measuring spoon, you would get close to 0.18 teaspoon by using three of that mini-measuring spoon. However, if you use 1 1/2 of a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon, which is a common size, you should get the same amount. The difference is that you would have to estimate a half of a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon. I would use this approach in your case rather than waiting to get a set of mini-measuring spoons.

Peter

Peter,

I do have a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon, so I will give that a try.  I might as well order a mini-set of measuring spoons anyway, because I probably will need them for this project or other experiments.  I will mix the blend tomorrow.  I have one other question though before I mix the blend.  When I converted the Knox gelatin to ounces I got 0.1252.  Do I just round it off to 0.1?  The same thing with the diastatic malt powder, I got 0.1463 when converted to ounces.  I could easily weigh that on my market scale, but not my home scale.

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2011, 11:53:26 PM »
Norma,

If you can weigh the Knox gelatin and diastatic malt on a grams basis, that is what I recommend. The only reason to convert from grams to ounces is to use the conversion data to convert from ounces to measuring spoon measurements.

Peter


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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2011, 12:07:39 AM »
Norma,

If you can weigh the Knox gelatin and diastatic malt on a grams basis, that is what I recommend. The only reason to convert from grams to ounces is to use the conversion data to convert from ounces to measuring spoon measurements.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks, again.  I will make the blend and 2 Lehmann dough balls tomorrow.  One without the blend and one with the blend.  I will be using the dough balls at market to make the pizzas.  I will learn a lot though this thread.  I already have learned more.

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2011, 12:24:23 AM »
Norma,

At some point, I think that it would be useful to weigh just one teaspoon of your blend, preferably in grams to be consistent. If that is hard to do on your scale, you could fill a tared 1/8-cup measuring cup (level) and weigh that. You would then divide that weight by six to get the weight for just one teaspoon.

As you can see, working with small numbers and small weights can be a real pain. It is also easy to make errors when working with the different sets of numbers needed to do what you want to do. You had better pray that the blend works and doesn't need any changes.

Peter

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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2011, 12:38:16 AM »
Norma,

I went going on Novemberís  Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/  And
tried Lactic acid powder or Hodgson Mill Vital Wheat Gluten and put textbook method for measuring for mass to volume for those two ingredients for 1 gram or one 1 oz.  but got different numbers for both in teaspoons.


What are you actually trying to compare the numbers with?  I didn't see anywhere among the immediately surrounding posts that you're using lactic acid powder.  Where are you getting lactic acid powder from?

Peter,

I haven't had time to read through all the posts here, but it appears there might be an opportunity to add more items to the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator.  I see many ingredients have been weighed recently.  Have any of them been weighed in two or more sized measuring apparatuses?  If anybody has weights of an ingredient from two different measuring cup sizes, I'd be glad to include them in the drop-down menu.

- red.november

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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2011, 12:39:05 AM »
Norma,

At some point, I think that it would be useful to weigh just one teaspoon of your blend, preferably in grams to be consistent. If that is hard to do on your scale, you could fill a tared 1/8-cup measuring cup (level) and weigh that. You would then divide that weight by six to get the weight for just one teaspoon.

As you can see, working with small numbers and small weights can be a real pain. It is also easy to make errors when working with the different sets of numbers needed to do what you want to do. You had better pray that the blend works and doesn't need any changes.

Peter

Peter,

I will follow your instructions on weighing the blend, either in grams or in a tared 1/8 cup measuring cup and then weigh that and divide that weight by six to get the weight for just one teaspoon.

I probably wonít get the results I want by praying.  I can see by using small weights and small numbers, it is a pain.  I can see since I am math challenged it is hard working with different sets of numbers and being able to understand what to do.  Hopefully this project will help me understand more.  

Thanks for hanging in there with all my problems. I donít know how you can understand how to go about a project like this, but if I ever am successful, I will give you some gold stars.  I never should have tried this project, with my limited math skills,  but I am just curious to find out if somehow a blend can help dough.

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2011, 12:49:05 AM »
Norma,

 I didn't see anywhere among the immediately surrounding posts that you're using lactic acid powder.  Where are you getting lactic acid powder from?

- red.november


November,

I donít actually have lactic acid powder.  I was just trying to put in different ingredients in your calculator, that I am trying in my blend to see what would happen.  These are the ingredients I am trying at Reply 44 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13385.msg134450.html#msg134450

I didnít know how to go about doing this project, so that is why Peter is helping me to be able to make my blend to try in dough.

The numbers are supposed to be compared for making bread, but I want to try and make either pizza dough or bread with the blend.

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2011, 10:59:57 AM »
Peter,

I haven't had time to read through all the posts here, but it appears there might be an opportunity to add more items to the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator.  I see many ingredients have been weighed recently.  Have any of them been weighed in two or more sized measuring apparatuses?  If anybody has weights of an ingredient from two different measuring cup sizes, I'd be glad to include them in the drop-down menu.

November,

I am not aware of anyone having conducted weight measurements in two or more sized measuring cup sizes. I had Norma do a few multiple weighings of some of her ingredients for her dough enhancer blend but that was just to get a bit more accurate weight per teaspoon for those ingredients. I used those values in lieu of conversion data from other sources, such as from the SelfNutritionData website or from packaging information. I also assumed through all this that there is some compaction dynamics for ingredients like lecithin, vital wheat gluten, etc. although the differences are perhaps slight for the small amounts that Norma would use.

Lactic acid is something that Norma might want to consider some time. Can you recommend a good source for that product?

Peter

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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2011, 11:15:21 AM »
I donít know how you can understand how to go about a project like this


Norma,

The approach I took was dictated by the circumstances. Had you decided to try out your dough enhancer ingredients one at a time, the weight/volume conversion data would have been the same but I perhaps would have researched how much of each ingredient, by percent, is typically used for bread dough or pizza dough. Since you decided to go for the jugular and short circuit all of the individual tests, I decided solely out of convenience to use the "recommended use" data from the Malisa FoodBlog at http://concasse.blogspot.com/2009/04/natural-dough-conditioner-enhancer.html.

I believe I have conducted all or most of the heavy lifting at this point so it should be easier to modify your dough enhancer blend going forward by adding other ingredients or changing amounts of individual ingredients. But this still consumes time to do all of the math. It took me several hours of research and number crunching to come up with the three-stage method I described earlier in this thread.

The main reason I asked you to conduct some weighings of your final dough enhancer blend (to come up with a weight per teaspoon) is to allow you to usurp one of the ingredient fields in the expanded dough calculating tool. That way, you can enter the percent of the dough enhancer blend you want to use and you will get the weight and hopefully be able to use your scale to measure it out. Otherwise, you will have to manually convert the weight to a volume measurement.

Peter

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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2011, 11:48:46 AM »
Norma,

The approach I took was dictated by the circumstances. Had you decided to try out your dough enhancer ingredients one at a time, the weight/volume conversion data would have been the same but I perhaps would have researched how much of each ingredient, by percent, is typically used for bread dough or pizza dough. Since you decided to go for the jugular and short circuit all of the individual tests, I decided solely out of convenience to use the "recommended use" data from the Malisa FoodBlog at http://concasse.blogspot.com/2009/04/natural-dough-conditioner-enhancer.html.

I believe I have conducted all or most of the heavy lifting at this point so it should be easier to modify your dough enhancer blend going forward by adding other ingredients or changing amounts of individual ingredients. But this still consumes time to do all of the math. It took me several hours of research and number crunching to come up with the three-stage method I described earlier in this thread.

The main reason I asked you to conduct some weighings of your final dough enhancer blend (to come up with a weight per teaspoon) is to allow you to usurp one of the ingredient fields in the expanded dough calculating tool. That way, you can enter the percent of the dough enhancer blend you want to use and you will get the weight and hopefully be able to use your scale to measure it out. Otherwise, you will have to manually convert the weight to a volume measurement.

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for explaining how you went about figuring out this project.  I can understand it did take you a long time to the research and do the number crunching and also explaining to me how to go about everything with the ingredients I wanted to try all at once.  This isnít the first time I went for the jugular in an experiment, but I can understand my results might not work out for awhile when using a blend and maybe not at all.  I am one that always wants to experiment, but donít have the math skills to figure out what to do.

Hopefully I will know more on Tuesday, what will happen with the current blend in the regular Lehmann dough.

Norma
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2011, 06:21:05 PM »

Have any of them been weighed in two or more sized measuring apparatuses?  If anybody has weights of an ingredient from two different measuring cup sizes, I'd be glad to include them in the drop-down menu.

- red.november



November,

If you ever want me to measure the ingredients I am using in my blend, or other ingredients I might try in the blend, I could use my scale at market. It does measure better than my home scale.  The scale at market measures in kgs, lbs. or oz.  I could bring it home.

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/tor-rey-pzc-5-10-pound-digital-pizza-controller-portion-scale-with-foot-tare-pedal/166PZC510.html and http://www.webstaurantstore.com/specsheets/166PZC510.pdf

Norma
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 06:25:06 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Homemade Dough Conditioner
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2011, 06:27:30 PM »
I had errand running to do today and I had stopped at Marshallís to get new sneakers.  I found a stainless steel measuring set, that had mini-measuring spoons.  At least now I have stainless steel measuring cups, 5 measuring spoons, and mini-measuring spoons at home to use.  Now I will be able to measure small ingredients more accurately.  ;D

Picture below

Norma
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