Malty Laminated Beer Pizza

[David Deas]

Dan you're awesome, dude.  Nice pies.

[SquirrelFlight]

Okay, so I've decided to try the laminated dough given by DNA Dan at: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13389.msg169942.html#msg169942

I'm using IDY, not ADY, so I've cut the amount used down accordingly.  I didn't have any shortning on hand, so I used (unsalted) butter, instead.  I mixed it last night, and the initial 1-hour rise was beautiful.

I don't have access to a sheeter, so I'll be rolling it out by hand.

I'll be finishing tonight when I get home from work, and I'll be hungry enough that I don't know if I'll be able to wait for the 3-hour refrigeration after being rolled out (we'll see).

If this turns out the way I hope, I think I've found the base for the taco pizza that I originally inspired me to get into pizzamaking in the first place! 

[CDNpielover]

^^how much IDY did you end up using?  (i'm trying to get a feeling for ADY/IDY conversions.)  thanks!

[SquirrelFlight]

^^how much IDY did you end up using?  (i'm trying to get a feeling for ADY/IDY conversions.)  thanks!

I went with roughly 2/3 as much (I don't remember where I heard it, but I'd heard that that is a good ratio of IDY/ADY), and the 2.1% became about 1.7%. 

I know the math comes out 1.4%, but I 
1) measured 2.1% of 12oz (making a 14" pie, not 16"), which rounds to 0.3oz (my scale only measures tenths).
2) scaled that by 2/3 to 0.2oz
3) recalculated the new percentage as 1.7%

I think that all makes sense... 

[AimlessRyan]

I went with roughly 2/3 as much (I don't remember where I heard it, but I'd heard that that is a good ratio of IDY/ADY), and the 2.1% became about 1.7%. 

I think the conversion is supposed to be 1/3, rather than 2/3. So this stuff is probably gonna grow faster than you want it to. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[SquirrelFlight]

I went looking, and found a discussion by Pete-zaa here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5647.msg47898.html#msg47898

Looking at the table in the link he provided(www.theartisan.net), I see conversions between 2/3 (for small amounts) and 3/4 (for larger amounts)

[Pete-zza]

The fastest way to convert the 12 grams of ADY to IDY is to use the yeast conversion table at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm that SquirrelFlight mentioned. As can be seen from that table, to convert the ADY to IDY, you reduce the amount of ADY by 25%. To make the conversion in the other direction, from IDY to ADY, you increase the IDY by one third. The table may not use these conversion factors in every case, but they are close enough for our purposes. I have memorized the 25% and one- third conversion percents to keep everything straight. Sometimes when I am lazy, or when I want very precise numbers, I use the table.

Peter

[SquirrelFlight]

I have a fair bit of the boiled-down malt liquor left over.  If the dough turns out good, I'll mix some with water in the same propotion used in the formula and take a specific gravity reading (as soon as the wife is done using my carboy for mead, I think a nice hefe is in order for the summer).  DNA Dan mentioned using a diastatic extract, and it seems to me that knowing your target for sugar concentration is a good idea   

[SquirrelFlight]

Well, here's my first attempt.  Rolling it out by hand seems to have taken some of the laminars out of the laminate   

and I think I may need to adjust my bake a bit.

Still, it's the first attempt, and I don't think I did too badly.  Wife says she likes it, which is a good thing 

[DNA Dan]

Wow that's great for a rolling pin. Did you fold and roll hard? or did you superimpose 3 thin sheets and roll them together?

Also how was the taste of the crust? Did you use Old English or some other malt liquor?

[SquirrelFlight]

Wow that's great for a rolling pin. Did you fold and roll hard? or did you superimpose 3 thin sheets and roll them together?

Also how was the taste of the crust? Did you use Old English or some other malt liquor?

It was fold and roll hard... I hadn't thought of stacking - I think I'll try that next time!

The store I went to had Mickey's.  Is there really that much difference between one malt liquor and the next?  I'm not sure I reduced it down enough, though... I was hoping for a little more maltiness.  Some time in the next couple days, I'll redo that malt/water mixture to try and get a specific gravity reading, on the off chance that bulk malt extract might be less expensive than buying malt liqour all the time.... although, I still have most of what I boiled down, so maybe not.  With an actual specific gravity, it might be easier to target a particular concentration.

We'll see 

[DNA Dan]

With an actual specific gravity, it might be easier to target a particular concentration.

I think that's a great idea. I've done malt extract directly and it just seems the dough flavor is one-sided. It's not very dynamic. I think the hops and other items in the beer give it more depth. The nice thing about malt extracts however is they lack the water (especially in dry form), so you can reach higher levels of "maltiness". The only downside to the dry stuff is the sweetness. At high concentrations it's like adding honey to your dough.

Some tips with the rolling pin is to either back off on the flour strength (use lower protein flour, like Mondako, etc.) or raise the hydration if using a high gluten flour. All Trumps can be downright impossible to roll at about 43% hydration.

[SquirrelFlight]

Some tips with the rolling pin is to either back off on the flour strength (use lower protein flour, like Mondako, etc.) or raise the hydration if using a high gluten flour. All Trumps can be downright impossible to roll at about 43% hydration.

Ah - forgot to mention, I used Bob's Red Mills white which, if I remember correctly is somewhere around 11% (someone correct me if I'm wrong), which might make the difference.  I normally use KABF, but found this a little bit less expensive and thought I'd give it a try.

[DNA Dan]

Did you find it easier to roll with the pin? That's what I was suggesting, something in the 10-12% range.

[SquirrelFlight]

The initial rollout wasn't bad at all, although by the time I got it think enough to fold, it had... I guess it had dried out enough that after I folded it, the distinct layers persisted for a long time.  I wonder if the cut-n-stack technique you mentioned would work better than that...

[Mad_Ernie]

The initial rollout wasn't bad at all, although by the time I got it think enough to fold, it had... I guess it had dried out enough that after I folded it, the distinct layers persisted for a long time.  I wonder if the cut-n-stack technique you mentioned would work better than that...

SquirrelFlight:

Check out this video that forum contributor Lydia put together.  This method has worked very well for me.

http://www.viddler.com/v/3158fc24

-ME

[DNA Dan]

Well I finally received my custom ordred metro rack so I can complete my garage pizzaria. We had a vanity base made to from incorrect dimensions when our house was built, so I put a formica top on it from Home Depot and put it in our garage. I then ordered a metro rack to fit the Maestro oven with the legs removed.  The idea was to be able to have the oven be eye-level when cooking, yet leave room below it so I can sheet my doughs underneath. This whole setup only takes up a 6' X 26" footprint with minimal protrusions. The worst being the handle on the sheeter with the rubber ball on it so the wife doesn't bang the car door.

[Zing]

Dan, your kitchen looks more like the pizza making area of those beery pizza restaurants we see so many photos of, than a garage!

I'd be interested to read your observations about how the finished product from the sheeter and conveyor oven compares to the way you made pizza previously.

[SquirrelFlight]

Okay, the temperatures have finally dropped enough to attempt pizzamaking again.... and I had a weekend *full* of fail. Nope, no pictures, it was that bad.  On Saturday, I attempted the laminated beer malt pizza dough (I'll put up my formula when I get home and can check my notes), and was using the "stacking" method from Lydia's video. 

First thing, I rolled the layers waaaay too thin - I had enough scraps left over for a whole new later (more on that in a bit).  The other disaster is that I didn't dust my peel very well, and when I went to launch the pizza, it self-destructed all over the place.  Fail all around. 

Like I said, I had enough trimmed dough to make a whole new layer, which I decided to cook up, bare, yesterday (Sunday) and what I noticed is that it wasn't at all crunchy/crackery, which it's supposed to be (for the type of pie I'm trying to recreate).

So the advice I'm looking for is: what is the best way to make the crust more crispy?  I'm using an electric apartment-supplied oven, so I can't really go hotter, but I could go for a longer bake at a lower temperature (which would tend to dry the dough out while it bakes, if I understand the physics right).  I'll need to double check my formula, but I think my hydration was in the 40%-45% range, So I could try bringing that down a little bit also (thinking along the lines of the DKM cracker crust).  Is my reasoning at all sound with this?

[Chicago Bob]

John,
Sorry bout the mess...happens to us all. 
Do you have a cutter pan? These doughs work out pretty good with a parbake...dock it and parbake the crust  for 3-5 min.  I use a pan because I like to have a lip on the edge.