Author Topic: 50lb+ Flour Storage  (Read 321 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mmille24

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 123
  • Location: San Diego
  • I Love Pizza!
50lb+ Flour Storage
« on: September 22, 2016, 11:55:55 AM »
After finding some bugs in about 20lbs of remaining Sperry organic flour, I've decided I need better storage.

I just ordered these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RBB52W/?tag=pmak-20

Anyone have any experience with them?

For $18 dollars (free shipping prime), it seems like a decent deal. It should be able to hold a 50lb bag between them. I like the fact t can put the flour I'm using in the smaller one and longer term in the big one.  Food Grade Silicone BPA Free FDA Approved.

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2016, 12:01:31 PM »
What kinds of bugs where they? Sometimes they are already in the flour and after about 28 days they begin to multiple. (At least that is how I understand it).

I believe, temp controlling your flour may be a better way to prevent the bugs if at all possible.

Online The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1987
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2016, 12:32:27 PM »
Agreed, unless you can run through your 50-pounds of flour in less than a month, the flour should be stored under refrigeration or better yet, freezing conditions. Even though the flour is run through an entilator at the mill there are always some insect eggs that survive the process, they will hatch into larvae (many call them "worms") in less than 28-days, depending upon when they were laid prior to milling. In any case it takes roughly 28-days from egg to mature insect (most likely confused cigarette beetles) where more eggs are laid and the population explosion begins. You can usually find these insects either on top of the flour or more commonly around the top edge of the bag, just above the flour where they are looking for a place to fly from to increase their infestation. Refrigerating the flour greatly slows the life cycle and freezing the flour for 45-days will kill any eggs that are present, then you can transfer the flour to the fridge for long term storage if you wish. Considerations: Flour is VERY DIFFICULT to freeze. A 50-pound bag might take as long as two weeks just to freeze (yes, it's that good of an insulator) you can get much more effective freezing by breaking the flour down into smaller bags (I use 5-pounds in a bag). Sperry is an organic flour and as such, it deteriorates to a great extent after only 2-weeks of storage at room temperature so if you use an organic flour it really must be refrigerated to maintain its quality. Ditto for whole-wheat flour too.
I hope this helps.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 25175
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 01:58:04 PM »
Aric,

You can read about my experience with buggy flour at Reply 16 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2049.msg128617;topicseen#msg128617

Peter

Offline mmille24

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 123
  • Location: San Diego
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2016, 02:42:39 PM »
Thanks guys. I have frozen flour in the past, but it just takes up so much room in my fridge.

One question. If it's in an airtight container. How do the bugs have enough air to live?

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2016, 03:19:56 PM »
Thanks guys. I have frozen flour in the past, but it just takes up so much room in my fridge.

One question. If it's in an airtight container. How do the bugs have enough air to live?

Who knows! It's their superpower I guess!!

Online The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1987
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2016, 06:20:54 PM »
Just think of all those little spaces between the flour particles. For its volume flour is very light, lots of air in there taking up all that space.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline mmille24

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 123
  • Location: San Diego
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2016, 06:31:11 PM »
Just think of all those little spaces between the flour particles. For its volume flour is very light, lots of air in there taking up all that space.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Interesting. As an alternative to freezing, do you think vacuum sealing would kill off the bugs/eggs?

Offline barryvabeach

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 891
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2016, 08:34:15 PM »
I have read that some put dry ice in a container, then add the grain the dry ice puts out CO2 which kills the bugs.  http://bulknaturalfoods.com/articles/wheat-storage/    the article has other suggestions as well, I know they are for grain, but I assume they would work for flour

Online The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1987
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2016, 09:08:22 PM »
It will work for the developed insects and larvae but not for the eggs. Freezing for roughly 45-days will effectively destroy both the insects and their eggs, after that you can store at room temperature BUT any oil present in the flour will oxidize thus impacting the flavor of anything you make from it. The other option is heat treating the flour but that also impacts the flour in a negative way too BUT then there is always irradiation, works great but my unit just happens to be down at the moment for repairs :).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2016, 09:26:47 PM »
I have read that some put dry ice in a container, then add the grain the dry ice puts out CO2 which kills the bugs.  http://bulknaturalfoods.com/articles/wheat-storage/    the article has other suggestions as well, I know they are for grain, but I assume they would work for flour

Great article. Thanks for that link!

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2016, 09:28:17 PM »
It will work for the developed insects and larvae but not for the eggs. Freezing for roughly 45-days will effectively destroy both the insects and their eggs, after that you can store at room temperature BUT any oil present in the flour will oxidize thus impacting the flavor of anything you make from it. The other option is heat treating the flour but that also impacts the flour in a negative way too BUT then there is always irradiation, works great but my unit just happens to be down at the moment for repairs :).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom, where would the oil come from? Is that something of a byproduct from killing the bugs?


Online The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1987
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2016, 09:45:00 PM »
Germ oil aka wheat germ oil. Some flours available today are ground (they call it milled) and then sifted to remove the larger pieces of bran which leaves the flour with a higher level of germ oil than conventional "white" flour. Germ oil is highly unstable so it oxidizes (turns rancid) rapidly. This is why you should always refrigerate or freeze whole-wheat flour (because in whole-wheat flour all of the germ oil is still present in the flour). In commercial bakeries the whole-wheat flour is milled and shipped to the bakery where it is typically used in 10-days or less from the date of milling. If grinding/milling your own flour this is something that you might want to consider if you don't mill your grains as you need flour.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2016, 10:41:29 PM »
Germ oil aka wheat germ oil. Some flours available today are ground (they call it milled) and then sifted to remove the larger pieces of bran which leaves the flour with a higher level of germ oil than conventional "white" flour. Germ oil is highly unstable so it oxidizes (turns rancid) rapidly. This is why you should always refrigerate or freeze whole-wheat flour (because in whole-wheat flour all of the germ oil is still present in the flour). In commercial bakeries the whole-wheat flour is milled and shipped to the bakery where it is typically used in 10-days or less from the date of milling. If grinding/milling your own flour this is something that you might want to consider if you don't mill your grains as you need flour.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Thanks, Tom. I thought we were talking about bugs but in the context of self ground/wholewheat, it makes much more sense.

On that same note, how do you recommend storing homemade diastatic malt powder (sprouted wheat, dried and ground and then sifted to remove bran)?

Online The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1987
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2016, 11:59:49 PM »
Best to store it in a small air tight container (plastic bag that you can roll down onto the malt is best). The object here is to maintain "0" or as little head space as possible in the container and then store in the fridge BUT be sure to remove it at least an hour prior to opening the bag, this will prevent condensation from forming on the dried malt resulting in one large cube of malt. I store my malt in a small plastic bag that I roll down onto the malt powder, secure it with a rubber band and then place it in a plastic jar (don't worry about head space in the jar, that's what the plastic bag addresses). I use a soda spoon to remove what I need as quickly as possible and then reseal and place back into the fridge. Seems to keep forever.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2016, 03:23:34 AM »
Thanks Tom,

So far, I've been storing in a ziplock in the freezer and adding straight to the flour as I combine dry ingredients. I will move it to the fridge as you've suggested, but just to satisfy curiosity, is there any adverse affect to storing it in the freezer?

Online The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1987
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2016, 12:46:31 PM »
None that I'm aware of. But note that I said to "roll the bag down onto the product", this is done to eliminate the head space in the bag, Zip Lock bags allow for a huge amount of head space. Every time you open the bag you allow moisture to enter the bag, this moisture is present in the head space, so the more head space, the more moisture, this moisture condenses on the malt and is absorbed into it......did you want to use one lump or two in your dough? :). With the malt in a plastic bag rolled down upon the malt and secured with a rubber band you can place it into a Zip Lock bag for added protection.
When I remove malt from the bag I like to lay the bag on its side, unroll the top allowing access to the malt, then opening the bag just enough to insert a soda spoon remove what I need, remove the spoon and roll the bag back down tightly against the malt. I know all this sounds silly, but remember that moisture is not your friend in this case.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
Re: 50lb+ Flour Storage
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2016, 09:06:42 PM »
Thanks Tom.

I've never experienced a lump problem with it and I usually push excess air out so I guess I've just been lucky!


 

wordpress