Author Topic: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting  (Read 1627 times)

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Offline texmex

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2016, 02:38:52 PM »
Norm, that does sound easy. I can see it, so you must've 'splained pretty well.

 I don't lube the bags so my method is to toss a little flour into the bag and gently tear the bag away from the blob. 
Reesa


Offline norcoscia

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2016, 02:41:42 PM »
Reesa, I'll try that next time, I'm not a fan of Pam but I was afraid to try it w/o oiling the bag.  Thx  :)
Norm

Offline HBolte

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2016, 02:44:32 PM »
I was a long time plastic container guy but for the last several pizza parties I switched over to cheap plastic bags. Wow do they work better! The dough never dries and they take up so so much less room in the refrigerator. I can't say thanks enough to those that recommended this method.

One interesting thing I did last time was reinvent the de-bagging procedure. My new "patent pending" method :-D is easy and helps with that one tense moment when you reach into the bag to pull out a warm high hydration dough ball. My method goes like this:

Find a tall can with about the same diameter as your dough ball (I used an old nutritional yeast can but depending on your pie size you may need smaller or larger). When you are ready to de-bag just place you ball on top of the can and roll the plastic bag down (like you were trying to cover the can). The plastic bag uncovers your dough ball which it now sitting on top of the can. You can plop it into some flour or into a bowl filled with flour. No more finger dents or issues removing the dough. Works perfect 100% of the time. Of course you still need to spray a small amount of Pam into the bag when you first put your dough in.

Anyway - hope this helps someone and I say -- try it -- you will like it!!!!

PS. I hope I made that clear because it really is easy  :D

I do the same thing but use my hand instead of the can. Hold bottom in my hand, pull bag around my arm and plop the dough ball on the board. :)
Hans

Offline texmex

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2016, 02:49:05 PM »
Just a warning, the dough will be sticking to the bag. 
Gentle is the key.  I like the bags because condensation doesn't change my hi hydration dough into a lesser hydration.  The water stays put.  LOL. sometimes the dough wants to stay put in the bag though.  Nah, really, it's not bad once you get the hang of that sticky dough, right?

I want to try your method, and will try to remember it next time.
Reesa

Offline HBolte

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2016, 02:52:15 PM »
I use a very light spray of canola in the bag and on top of the ball. No sticking.
Hans

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2016, 03:01:47 PM »
I was using Pam because someone mentioned it contained lecithin, and it was supposed to be a good release agent.  I'll try the hand method also. I like that idea, no can required and you get to say "tada"   :-D
Norm

Offline texmex

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2016, 03:20:15 PM »
I was using Pam because someone mentioned it contained lecithin, and it was supposed to be a good release agent.  I'll try the hand method also. I like that idea, no can required and you get to say "tada"   :-D

Oh no, I  am  totally gonna use the can. Then I'll say tada! There are no rules!

I'm not sure when I quit using oil on the doughballs...but I think it had something to do with reballing, and the oil being a hindrance, so I  just omitted it from the process.
Reesa

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2016, 03:47:06 PM »
I know lots of people like re-balling but for me (making NY style).  It always gives me problems.  Maybe with a NP pie using slow moving starter it is great but I use IDY and when I re-ball it creates small air pockets that make thin spots in my already very thin pie dough as I stretch it out.

As a matter of fact, that is why I like my mixer, it keeps me ahead of the tiny bubbles.  When using the hand method, I always use colder water since the kneading method takes longer.  And, I agree, oil on a dough when re-balling is just asking for trouble.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 05:01:15 AM by norcoscia »
Norm

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2016, 08:59:08 PM »
Here's my 2-cents worth;
If you use lidded containers you really should leave them un-lidded after placing them in the fridge for at least 2-hours or more to promote consistent cooling of the dough without forming condensation in the container....this can be a real pain. When using plastic bags, I just oil the dough ball and drop it in the bag, ponytail, tuck and place in the fridge. The bags can be reused any number of times. I just use one of our empty margarine tubs and pack the bags into the tub and lid, store in the fridge until the next time you're ready to make dough, I've used the bags countless times this way. In a commercial setting (pizzeria) we put them into a 5-gallon bucket and store them in the walk-in. We reuse them for a full week if we can. It's only oil in the bags so there is nothing to spoil or go bad especially when stored in the cooler.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


Offline texmex

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2016, 07:13:58 AM »
I know lots of people like re-balling but for me (making NY style).  It always gives me problems.  Maybe with a NP pie using slow moving starter it is great but I use IDY and when I re-ball it creates small air pockets that make thin spots in my already very thin pie dough as I stretch it out.

As a matter of fact, that is why I like my mixer, it keeps me ahead of the tiny bubbles.  When using the hand method, I always use colder water since the kneading method takes longer.  And, I agree, oil on a dough when re-balling is just asking for trouble.

I liked it better when it said rebelling... ;) 
Yep, my hybrid doughs don't fall under that NY realm, but I know what you mean. The reball changes everything.
Reesa

Offline texmex

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2016, 07:18:29 AM »
Here's my 2-cents worth;
If you use lidded containers you really should leave them un-lidded after placing them in the fridge for at least 2-hours or more to promote consistent cooling of the dough without forming condensation in the container....this can be a real pain. When using plastic bags, I just oil the dough ball and drop it in the bag, ponytail, tuck and place in the fridge. The bags can be reused any number of times. I just use one of our empty margarine tubs and pack the bags into the tub and lid, store in the fridge until the next time you're ready to make dough, I've used the bags countless times this way. In a commercial setting (pizzeria) we put them into a 5-gallon bucket and store them in the walk-in. We reuse them for a full week if we can. It's only oil in the bags so there is nothing to spoil or go bad especially when stored in the cooler.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom, your talk about condensation is very important. I used to try that method, but more often than not I would forget to completely seal the tubs and then I would end up with skins on my dough balls.  Condensation always did strange things when it came to stretching.
Reesa

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2016, 02:46:58 PM »
That is why it is so important to oil the dough balls either before or after you place them into their containers. You will see that when we use dough boxes in a pizzeria we place the dough balls in the box un-oiled as this prevents the dough balls from sliding around in the box during handling we then lightly brush or wipe the tops of the dough balls with oil prior to taking them to the cooler, this is what prevents the dough balls from developing a dry skin or crust on top.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline enchant

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2016, 03:41:38 PM »
Is this still important for us home brewers who put a single dough ball into a smallish container?  My container is probably twice the size of the dough ball.  With less air available, should we still oil?
--pat--

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2016, 03:59:42 PM »
I wanted to make sure my comments were not misunderstood - I didn't mean to say that I find a .5 second spray of PAM in the bag a problem. I guess what I was trying to say is once oil is applied re-balling has caused me to pucker up while stretching.

But now that you bring it up enchant - I'm wondering -- in that tiny bag with all the H20 in the dough is the oil is even necessary?

I don't think the dough will dry out but I'm only guessing because I have always given the bag a quick shot of oil. I did it to to keep the dough from sticking to the bag - I'll need to run some test doughs to see what happens with respect to a skin forming.

I'm very interested to know what others have tried and what their results were in a home setting.

PS. I'm not adding the oil to the bag as a dough conditioner or to add any flavor to the pizza - only for its mechanical properties. But, with that said, I do add a small amount of oil to my dough (not for flavor only as a dough conditioner / enhancer).
Norm

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2016, 04:58:34 PM »
Even using a thin coat of oil in the tubs, my dough didn't particularly like to come out after 24 hours. I hated the way it would stretch as it dropped out. Maybe it didn't make a difference, but it looked like it was messing up the structure.
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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2016, 06:37:28 PM »
Been there, done that, without oil either in the bag or on the dough ball the dough sticks to the plastic. When I lightly oil the dough ball and drop it into the bag it comes out with very little encouragement from me. BTW: Oiling the dough ball doesn't create as much of a mess in the bag as spraying oil in the bag and it still gets the job done.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2016, 05:46:03 AM »
Oiling the dough ball doesn't create as much of a mess in the bag as spraying oil in the bag and it still gets the job done.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Wow, thanks Tom - if I can just give the bag a shot after I put the ball in it will be so much less of a hassle - once the oil is in the bag placing the ball always get oil all over me. I never thought about it, but I guess the oil slowly works its way down and around the dough. Cool!!!!
Norm


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2016, 09:17:36 AM »
Wow, thanks Tom - if I can just give the bag a shot after I put the ball in it will be so much less of a hassle - once the oil is in the bag placing the ball always get oil all over me. I never thought about it, but I guess the oil slowly works its way down and around the dough. Cool!!!!

I could be wrong, but don't think that is what Tom was saying.
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Offline texmex

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2016, 09:49:42 AM »
Even after reading all this, I still don't have any inclination to de-condensate, nor oil my dough balls.  I'm used to my method....I didn't try the can  method, but I did say tada!   :P  it was so satisfying!  I'm gonna strive more to say tada!

One thing I noticed is that my ADY dough wanted to stick to the bags, and I had to tear the bag to release them....the SD dough plopped out fairly easy in comparison.   

I also did not reball,  so the dough was really spread out onto the plastic, and top or bottom of dough was undiscernable.  Skins opened up just fine. I'm also not in business to sell pizza! 
Reesa

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2016, 10:53:45 AM »
I could be wrong, but don't think that is what Tom was saying.

Yes, I re-read it - I think you are right - I feel silly now  :-[
Norm

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Correct Use of Plastic Bags For Fermenting
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2016, 11:21:33 AM »
When I use bags, I give the ball or bag a shot of PAM.  As mentioned, it contains lecithin - a release agent.  Also, with PAM, the amount used is very small.  I don't reball - so I do not know about that issue.  What I do know, is the ball always just "plops" right out into the flour.  I couldn't care less if a drop of oil is encountered by my dough.

This may be of interest: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=34523.msg343543#msg343543
BTW - the PAM type sprays that are for baking release, such as the Spectrum in that thread, are not good for this.They contain a bit of flour and it cakes on the dough ball when you do a CF.  The instructions say not to refrigerate.

Examples below of the dough ball plopped out using oil and PAM.

Mitch

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