Author Topic: I'm about to give up!  (Read 4145 times)

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Offline joiseystud

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2011, 12:24:22 AM »
Joiseystud,

I'd like to try your recipe next but I'm concerned about measuring the ingredients other than the flour. My scale only weighs to one gram and I'm not sure how to accurately measure fractions of a teaspoon for such small quantities.

Are you from anywhere near West Orange, New Joisey?

Hey Grandpa.  I grew up in Union and live in Freehold area now.  Dont weigh the salt or yeast.  Do those by volume.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2011, 09:35:00 AM »
grandpa,

When someone fails or gets poor results consistently, and especially with different dough recipes, that is usually a sign that something is being done wrong in all cases. In your case, it sounds like it is the punching down of the dough and re-balling and re-kneading it. That is one of the most common mistakes that newbies make, and my antennae are always up when I hear of problems like yours. Re-balling, or re-kneading or otherwise re-forming the dough before using to make skins really messes up the gluten structure and matrix and results in a dough that is overly elastic and hard to open up without tears or thin spots forming. Sometimes the problem is correctable if the dough is allowed to rest again and especially if it is a high hydration dough, but that can sometimes take hours and, even then, there is no guarantee that the problem will be corrected. I think that if you correct the dough handling problem and follow the other good advice that the members have given you before this post, you should see much better results.

Peter

Offline grandpa

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2011, 09:25:03 PM »
OK, the next pizza I will try to make (next week) I will not punch the dough (just deflate it) after it rises. The dough is pretty sticky though. Remember, Iím mixing and kneading the dough by hand.  Iíve watched a video in which a woman kneaded the dough by hand, rolling it back and forth and folding it. She did it for quite a while. How do I know how long to knead the dough?  It seems that the more I knead, the stickier it gets.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2011, 10:20:06 PM »
Grandpa, with wet doughs like you and I use, there is no need to knead or punch down the dough.  There is enough water available that, given time, the gluten forms all by itself.  Hopefully this weekend I will have time to put together the videos I shot a couple of weekends ago on how to work very high hydration, no knead dough.

Offline Ronzo

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2011, 10:36:40 PM »
Grandpa, with wet doughs like you and I use, there is no need to knead or punch down the dough.  There is enough water available that, given time, the gluten forms all by itself.  Hopefully this weekend I will have time to put together the videos I shot a couple of weekends ago on how to work very high hydration, no knead dough.
Looking forward to that, T.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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http://newtexianbrew.com - http://ronlennex.com/ - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2011, 10:43:25 PM »
The hold up is the fill shots, Ronzo, plus I haven't found the appropriate music for a video entitled, "Drunken Dough".

Suggestions welcome.

Offline Ronzo

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2011, 11:07:14 PM »
The hold up is the fill shots, Ronzo, plus I haven't found the appropriate music for a video entitled, "Drunken Dough".

Suggestions welcome.

Gin and Juice - Snoop Dawg

;)
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
http://newtexianbrew.com - http://ronlennex.com/ - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2011, 11:13:08 PM »
Dude, this is Austin, Snoop ain't in this world, it is the Gourds:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4hGSR5njZE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4hGSR5njZE</a>

Offline Ronzo

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2011, 11:24:53 PM »
Dude, this is Austin, Snoop ain't in this world, it is the Gourds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4hGSR5njZE
I've heard that before. They did a much better job than he did. ;)

Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
http://newtexianbrew.com - http://ronlennex.com/ - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline Botch

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2011, 04:28:14 PM »
First day on the forum, and it sounds like Grandpa and I have been doing the same things wrong!  Think I'll mix some dough up right now, keep it a bit wetter, not mix it so much (I've been doing 20 minutes in my Kitchenaid per Alton Brown) and punching it down.  Thanks Folks!   :D
I cook with wine.  Sometimes I even add it to the food.  - W. C. Fields


Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2011, 04:32:37 PM »
My early disasters were with AB's method.  I only got it together when I dramatically reduced my kneading.

D
Always make new mistakes.

Offline SinoChef

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2011, 11:42:37 AM »
Dude, this is Austin, Snoop ain't in this world, it is the Gourds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4hGSR5njZE


GnR, Night train?

Its about addiction....

Offline grandpa

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2011, 10:33:37 PM »


Well, I had partial success tonight. I tried to make joiseystud's recipe that was suggested previously in this thread. I made enough for one 14 inch pizza. 262g KA bread flour, 168g (64%) water (115 degree), 1/2 teaspoon (0.7%) ADY, one teaspoon (2%) salt. Mixed the dry ingredients together then added the water. The dough was very, very sticky so I kneaded it until it was only slightly sticky (less than 5 minutes). Put the ball in a slightly oiled bowl and turned it over to get oil on top and bottom. Put the bowl in the back of the frig for 24 hours. Took the dough out of the frig 2 hours before I wanted to make the skin. It doubled in size. Put some flour on the counter and dumped the dough onto the counter. Dusted the top of the ball with a little flour as it was sticky. Pressed the dough to about 1/3 the desired size. That worked OK and is farther than I've gotten before, however, when I tried to stretch the dough farther, the edges became very elastic and I could not stretch it.

Online norma427

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2011, 11:37:22 PM »
grandpa,

I donít know if you have read this thread, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.0.html but it has a lot of good information for someone starting out on learning to make pizza.  Peter posted the formula to make pizza at Reply 8 with instructions and comments for pizzzzagirl, or anyone else to use.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.msg19563.html#msg19563

You will be able to learn about dough more after a few tries.

Good luck!  :)

Norma
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buceriasdon

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2011, 09:18:04 AM »
Norma, I agree, excellent instructions by Peter for people just starting out working with dough.
Don

Offline grandpa

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2011, 10:13:00 PM »
Thank You Norma and Don. I read the suggested thread. Do you think that I am having difficulty because I am hand mixing the dough? I will try again the Friday after next.

Online norma427

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2011, 11:15:49 PM »
Do you think that I am having difficulty because I am hand mixing the dough? I will try again the Friday after next.


grandpa,

I have mixed many doughs by hand.  As long as you arenít mixing a lot of dough balls and using high-gluten flour for many doughs balls, you should do okay.

If you are interested, here are a couple links about mixing dough by hand. One at Reply 5 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5803.msg49391.html#msg49391 another at Reply 6 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7339.msg63586.html#msg63586

There are many members on the forum that do mix by hand and get excellent results.  

I donít know if you have read the Pizza Glossary about Pizza Making Terms & Definitions or not, but if you are interested it is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html It might be able to help you understand more about what goes into making pizza.  If you read about elasticity and extensibility you might  be able to understand the difference at: http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#E

Norma
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 06:29:30 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Pizzamaster

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2011, 12:06:27 AM »
I have never been a long rise guy. Does the procedure result in more dough or being able to make a larger pie? I mean X is still X correct?

Offline chickenparm

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2011, 12:44:22 AM »
I have never been a long rise guy. Does the procedure result in more dough or being able to make a larger pie? I mean X is still X correct?

Pizzamaster,

When I make a doughball,say for a 16 inch pizza,I put it in the fridge after making it.Its the size of my fist or a tiny bit larger at first.2 days later,its much much larger,and I can shape/stretch the dough to an 18 inch size or a bit larger if I want to go thinner.Its amazing.The dough needs to develop gluten and when it does,the dough ball can stretch out to very large sizes.If it doesn't,it stays small,shrinks back and is not elastic.I prefer the cold rise in the fridge to develop flavor I cannot get from a short warm rise as well.



-Bill

Offline grandpa

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Re: I'm about to give up!
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2011, 11:16:14 PM »
Norma,

Thanks for your input. I have read the Pizza Glossary and think that I know the difference between elasticity and extensibility. I had read the links that you suggested before but I read them again. I think that I am understanding the process a little better now. I think that what I will do for my next pizza (in a week from this Friday) is to let the dough rise in the frig for two days and see how that works.