Before I started experimenting with the Papa John's clones at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.0.html, I had gotten a fair amount of experience with member Randy's American style pizza that was also based on a Papa John's theme and called for a lot of sugar/honey and oil. My objective was mainly to make thinner versions of Randy's pizzas and to use a standard home oven and a pizza screen, as Randy did. As I noted in the thread on the subject at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1707.msg15310.html#msg15310, I thought that Randy's recipe was one of the best that I had used up to that time. I didn't quite know how to describe the pizza style I ended up with so I referred to my versions as a cross between a NY style (because of the crust thinness) and an American style (because of the high sugar/honey and oil levels). I eventually changed the baker's percents of my versions of Randy's American style pizza, but I always treated them as being different than say, a Lehmann NY style, which used no sugar and a small amount of oil. I isolated the two styles in my mind so I never gave thought to picking one over the other.
I know I have tried Papa Johnís dough in other experiments and didnít get the results I have so far with Reinhartís NY style pizza. Maybe I wasnít as experienced in making pizza back then, but the formula I used for Papa Johnís wasnít that high in hydration either. I see you posted at Reply 11 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58438.html#msg58438
that when you experimented with the PJ dough clone hydrations above 60% the rim were much larger and the crumb was puffier or more open and airy. Then the same reply you posted http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1707.msg15310.html#msg15310
. but, even with higher hydrations, you are not likely to get gigantic rims. I think it is because of the limiting effects of the large amounts of oil in the dough on the retention of gasses by the gluten matrix. Did you change your mind about that?
I never tried Randyís American Style thin version, but I see how much sugar/honey is used in the formula, but it doesnít have the high amount of oil used in the Reinhart NY style John is trying with the higher hydration.
Do you think Reinhartís NY style is really a NY style or an American style or a combination of both?
I made a dough today following Johnís directions to just dump everything into the mixer. I have taken pictures of what the dough looked like after it came out of the mixer and after I did 2 stretch and folds. I used Better for Bread flour and changed the oil to Bertolli extra light olive oil. If John or you wants to post the pictures of what my dough looked like, I will. I donít know how long to let this dough cold ferment to see what kind of results I will get in my home oven. Do you have any suggestions for how long I should let the dough cold ferment for the first experiment? Since my home oven canít even get to as high as Johnís home oven, I am interested in seeing what happens, if I can get somewhat the same results I did at market. I did use 0.10 for my thickness factor for a 14" pizza.
I also wanted to test out another idea that I saw on the new PMQ pizza magazine posted by Tom Lehman, when he talked about how water affects dough at PMQ pizza magazine http://pmq.com/digital/201104/
page 16. Tom said, that water quality certainly does have an effect on dough quality, but not as much as many believe it has. He goes on to say if two dough balls were made exactly alike, but used hard water for one dough and soft water in the other, you would see that the dough made with soft water was softer an a little slacker than the dough made with hard water. He goes on to explained in the article, if anyone is interested in reading the whole article, about how the different waters do or do not affect the final pizzas. I wanted to try my regular tap water, which I know is very hard, because I have well water. I usually use bottled water I buy for my doughs.
Do you think at some point you might try out Reinhartís NY style pizza?