Author Topic: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano  (Read 25049 times)

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Offline FeCheF

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Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« on: April 06, 2011, 11:12:36 PM »
Im new to this forum so I will start off by saying ciao buongiorno.
Anyway, the reason im posting is because I see that Cento brand is most commonly used here, and Ive started noticing there is two cento san marzano labels being sold with the same sku same price, and im wondering if its just a label change, or if theres some scamming going on here.I have attached some pictures to show what I mean.



Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 11:39:18 PM »
Where is Marco when we need him ?  Someone call the Vatican!

FeCheF, what is your general location?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 11:39:40 PM »
I think the D.O.P. Certified is the old label. I don't know if anything changed with the product that drove the label change.

Personally, I like the Cento Italian (in the 35oz can) over their San Marzano.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline FeCheF

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 11:50:18 PM »
Quote from: Jet_deck

FeCheF, what is your general location?

Pennsylvania (my grandmother (mothers side) was Italian (god bless her soul)

I think the D.O.P. Certified is the old label. I don't know if anything changed with the product that drove the label change.

As far as Ingredients, The DOP label says "San Marzano Plum peeled tomatoes" And the Certified label says "San Marzano whole peeled tomatoes"
I just dont understand why they would remove the DOP certification seal if there wasnt any need for removing it other then a change of label.Seems really shady to me.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2011, 06:24:39 AM »
It looks like they are changing their packaging.

http://www.amazon.com/Cento-Marzano-Certified-Tomatoes-28-Ounce/dp/B001SB1UQS/?tag=pizzamaking-20

They are putting "DOP" on a new label for an organic product, and selling the "Certified" cans without the designation. Maybe the rules are changing in Italy about the organic labeling, or maybe Cento wants to promote the DOP as organic. I have an email in to them, and will post follow up when I have more info.

John

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2011, 08:46:19 PM »
I would think that the "CERTIFIED" label was an interim label used before they got the seal and registration #s finalized. BUT my local store, which opened a year or 2 ago, had the DOP label version and then just last week noticed the label withOUT the DOP. Weird.

The organic version is just that, another version of DOP san marzanos. They also have an ORGANIC DOP "Chunky style" Crushed tomatoes.

And as I think previously mentioned, the 35oz can of "Product of Italy" whole peeled tomatoes.

Offline ItalianChef21

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 04:29:49 PM »
Peel the label back like I did. The label of the "CERTIFIED" can has the label company listed as "Precision Printing Group". I looked them up - they're in Berlin, NJ. That means they either had the labels printed in the states and shipped them to Italy (behind the D.O.P. consortium's back) or they're labeling regular plum tomatoes here and "certifying" them. The label dimensions are also in inches. Italy is on the metric system.

The consortium in Italy will do something about this. Go to their website - consorziopomodorosanmarzanodop.it
They're the only ones who can certify San Marzano tomatoes. Cento putting CERTIFIED on there means nothing.

I'd equate this to buying a Ferarri and getting a weed whacker engine. Sure, it looks good from the outside but it's not what you paid for.

I emailed the consortium about this and they asked me for photos. You should email them as well. They sent me a copy of a letter back addressing what I sent them, with the photos, to some major people in Italy.
This is who they sent it to:
Alla Procura della Repubblica di Nocera Inferiore
(To the Public Prosecutor’s Office of the Repubblica di Nocera Inferiore)

Nuclea Antifrodi Carabinieri Salerno
(Antifraud Squad Carabinieri Salerno)

Ispettorato Centrale dela Tutela della Qualita e repression frodi dei prodotti Agroalimentari
(Central Inspectorate of the Quality Protection and Offense Repression of the Agricultural and Food)

ISMECERT
(THE ONLY COMPANY WHO CAN CERTIFY SAN MARZANO TOMATOES)

Agenzia delle Dogane – Roma
(Italian Customs Agency)

I hope Cento has good lawyers in Italy for this one.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 12:52:46 PM by Steve »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 04:58:25 PM »
Nobody prints their own labels. I don't think it would be unusual to bring the cans over as "brights" (no labels) and label them here. I don't see how that is going behind anyone's back so long as the product is actually what it says it is on the label.

CL
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 05:14:51 PM »
Looks like they decided to save some money and not belong to the consortium anymore.  At least for this product anyway.


<<<>>>>  The website shows no D.O.P. tomato products <<<<<<<

http://www.cento.com/product/centoproducts.html

« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 05:26:16 PM by Jet_deck »
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Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 07:49:08 PM »
Looks like they decided to save some money and not belong to the consortium anymore.  At least for this product anyway.


<<<>>>>  The website shows no D.O.P. tomato products <<<<<<<

http://www.cento.com/product/centoproducts.html


Not the words D.O.P., but they do show the 'CERTIFIED label.

(http://www.cento.com/product/1_Cento%20Product%20Descriptions/14_Tomatoes/centotomatoes6.jpg)

Or here:

http://www.fineproductsinternational.com/70796-40008.htm
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 07:56:29 PM by matermark »


Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2011, 08:10:36 PM »
Peel the label back like I did. The label of the "CERTIFIED" can has the label company listed as "Precision Printing Group". I looked them up - they're in Berlin, NJ. That means they either had the labels printed in the states and shipped them to Italy (behind the D.O.P. consortium's back) or they're labeling regular plum tomatoes here and "certifying" them. The label dimensions are also in inches. Italy is on the metric system.

The consortium in Italy will do something about this. Go to their website - consorziopomodorosanmarzanodop.it
They're the only ones who can certify San Marzano tomatoes. Cento putting CERTIFIED on there means nothing.

I'd equate this to buying a Ferarri and getting a weed whacker engine. Sure, it looks good from the outside but it's not what you paid for.

I emailed the consortium about this and they asked me for photos. You should email them as well. They sent me a copy of a letter back addressing what I sent them, with the photos, to some major people in Italy.
This is who they sent it to:
Alla Procura della Repubblica di Nocera Inferiore
(To the Public Prosecutor’s Office of the Repubblica di Nocera Inferiore)

Nuclea Antifrodi Carabinieri Salerno
(Antifraud Squad Carabinieri Salerno)

Ispettorato Centrale dela Tutela della Qualita e repression frodi dei prodotti Agroalimentari
(Central Inspectorate of the Quality Protection and Offense Repression of the Agricultural and Food)

ISMECERT
(THE ONLY COMPANY WHO CAN CERTIFY SAN MARZANO TOMATOES)

Agenzia delle Dogane – Roma
(Italian Customs Agency)

I hope Cento has good lawyers in Italy for this one.

I wonder if giving each and every can a different serial # turned out to be, well, a stupid idea! We ARE talking about tomatoes here, not exactly gold ingots. I think I have hundreds of tomatoes that taste better anyway--they can have Mt. Vesuvius all they want.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 12:53:04 PM by Steve »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 08:52:36 PM »
I purchased some of those different cento/sm cans today to do an experiment.So far,I'm not into the hype,but I gotta Know for myself if I'm going to like these better than the others I have experimented with.This is a personal taste test I put off for a long time due to them being difficult to find in my area/stores.

Aside from escalons 6 in 1's,which is a favorite of mine and many others,

For me,the best and easiest can to find is Walmarts Great Value puree or crushed tomatoes in the can for a sauce base.

This is after my trying just about every store band I could ever find.The GV brand is so cheap and taste great on pizzas I made.Heck I even think their whole peeled tomatoes taste really good.They flat out beat red gold ,hunts,del monte,and other major store brands,at least to ME.

Some people like Red Gold,I used to,but now find it lacking compared to other brands I tested back to back.Experiment is key,finding what we like is what its all about.

 :)



-Bill

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2011, 09:29:49 PM »
I purchased some of those different cento/sm cans today to do an experiment.So far,I'm not into the hype,but I gotta Know for myself if I'm going to like these better than the others I have experimented with.This is a personal taste test I put off for a long time due to them being difficult to find in my area/stores.

Aside from escalons 6 in 1's,which is a favorite of mine and many others,

For me,the best and easiest can to find is Walmarts Great Value puree or crushed tomatoes in the can for a sauce base.

This is after my trying just about every store band I could ever find.The GV brand is so cheap and taste great on pizzas I made.Heck I even think their whole peeled tomatoes taste really good.They flat out beat red gold ,hunts,del monte,and other major store brands,at least to ME.

Some people like Red Gold,I used to,but now find it lacking compared to other brands I tested back to back.Experiment is key,finding what we like is what its all about.

 :)




You know, I heard you mention Red Gold in the past but never put it together until today when I was in Walmart looking at a can of Tuttoroso "New World Style" crushed tomatoes and I saw "RED GOLD INC on the label! I bought the Walmart paste, hearing to just use it and water it down to sauce consistency. My store didn't have GV whole peeled tomatoes, just diced, puree, crushed & sauce.

My local supermarkets in the Buffalo area carried Tuttoroso, Red Pack, Hunts, etc and some even Furmano. I started using Cento (and Anna pasta, especially the Cavatappi with the extra curls & grooves--never saw Cavatappi before) when Price-Rite came to town! I like the Cento CHEF'S CUT which is pieces of strips of plum tomatoes. I also have the DOP cans above with the serial #s as well as the 14oz cans that the menu on Cento's site calls "CENTO S.M. ITALIAN TOMATOES 14 oz" and are a "Product of Italy."

Here, at Price-Rite at least, the DOP cans are $2.49 and the Cento "Italian" peeled tomatoes were around $1.69 (35oz can.)

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2011, 12:09:02 AM »
Matermark,

I have not tried the walmart paste,so I cannot comment on that.I have tried other brand pastes like red Gold,Hunts,etc,and watered it down and was disgusted.(I might just suck at mixing it,but it was not good no matter what I did)

What I do NOT care for is puree made from paste and water.I have tried a few store brands that the puree is made from tomato paste and water and its just not the taste I want.

Nor do I care for jar sauces made with that either.I don't know what it is,it lacks a fresh tomatoey flavor,if that makes any sense.

The GV puree is made from tomato pulp.It tastes nothing like the purees that have paste and water.If it was made with paste and water,it does not say,nor does it taste like it does.Im very happy with it as a great base to make a simple NY style pie sauce.

The cento(non S/M) puree can I bought,said made from vine ripe tomatoes,not from concentrate,so Im hoping it performs well enough.

I have also tried furmanos and thought it was too bitter out of the cans.

Have you ever tried or heard of DELALLO? I never have,but found a can today in the store next to the cento san marzano certifed tomato cans I bought as well.

DELALLO,It says made,produced,and packed in Italy.I bought the crushed tomatoes in heavy juice and basil.It will be my first time trying this brand.Just wondering if you ever tried it.I will post later on in the next few days or less,if I use it.

I live out in KY and its not easy to find diverse brands of tomato styles in cans.Im always willing to try and test any brand that I can find,to see if it gives me what I need or am looking for.
We may not like the same thing,but great to share ideas and feedback on different brands anyways.
 :)












« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 12:16:45 AM by chickenparm »
-Bill

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2011, 12:50:00 AM »
chickenparm, I didn't know you can make puree out of paste. I remember reading on America's Test Kitchen that they usually add calcium chloride (I think) to keep the tomatoes firm. They also said that most tasters preferred tomato juice as the filler and NOT puree as the filler! I couldn't understand that part--I thought puree would be the pulp and would be better filling in between the maters but I think their reasoning is that juice is raw and puree may be cooked already.

I remember Norma here on the NJ Boardwalk Pizza thread saying that GV paste is nearly identical to Gangi brand sauce--just buy GV paste and use some water to get the consistency you want. So I bought a couple cans of GV 6oz paste cans today--we don't have Gangi brand here. Walmart has absolutely ZERO san marzano tomatoes! DOP or not!

Ironic that you mentioned DeLallo... I bought some Kalamata olives in a plastic container, first at a Super Walmart about a month ago, then again last week at Price-Rite that was a combo of green, black & Kalamata. I never paid attention to it but noticed today it was DELALLO! But I have never had their tomatoes.

I did notice that the Cento site splits off to what must be their parent site, fineproductsinternational.com.

You can order Cento as well as Ferrara tomatoes from their site too.

http://www.fineproductsinternational.com/tomatoes.htm

I sent Cento an e-mail about why some have the DOP label and some don't but probably won't see a reply for a few days IF they do reply. I would assume that they got tired of playing the serial # game and perhaps the DOP versions aren't selling as well as the lower cost versions.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2011, 12:54:36 AM »
Not the words D.O.P., but they do show the 'CERTIFIED label.

Yes, they say CERTIFIED but not certified as to what.  No different from 'San Marizano Style' or Italian Inspired, Italian Style, San Marizano POSH or the like.  Just a play on terms.  Imagine a large farm that followes the D.O.P. guidelines
to the nuts. The crop is harvested.  YOU get a choice.  Stamp or no stamp.  30% of profits for the stamp, no percent of the profit without the stamp.  What position would you take?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 12:57:31 AM by Jet_deck »
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Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2011, 01:36:31 AM »
Not the words D.O.P., but they do show the 'CERTIFIED label.

Yes, they say CERTIFIED but not certified as to what.  No different from 'San Marizano Style' or Italian Inspired, Italian Style, San Marizano POSH or the like.  Just a play on terms.  Imagine a large farm that followes the D.O.P. guidelines
to the nuts. The crop is harvested.  YOU get a choice.  Stamp or no stamp.  30% of profits for the stamp, no percent of the profit without the stamp.  What position would you take?

I think those are all bad examples.
1. It says San Marzano and 2. It says certified.

A typical person would take that to mean it's certified that they are san marzano grown tomatoes or the tomatoes inside the can are certified to be san marzano type tomatoes. It's not san marzano "type" nor "style" nor anything else on the can--it's CERTIFIED to be what it says, which I believe is San Marzano whole peeled tomatoes. Half the people who pick up a can and read it won't know what DOP means and most won't even know why a tomato is certified!

NOW, your last part about the profits... can a company claim they are San Marzano tomatoes inside their can without buying into the DOP fees?

Can they advertise "UNCERTIFIED SAN MARZANO TOMATOES" meaning they are S.M. tomsatoes but not certified thru DOP?

My money is on the 35oz "Product of Italy" plum tomatoes. Do you think they are plum tomatoes grown somewhere else in Italy? Do you think they are the same San Marzanos that make it into the DOP CERTIFIED or even the CERTIFIED cans?

I'm betting they pay a license fee for x amount of serial #'d tomatoes as well as x amount of the same tomatoes that get plain cans.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 01:38:54 AM by matermark »

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2011, 01:55:28 AM »
When did all this DOP and re-labeling start??

I remember seeing San Marzano tomatoes all over the place, then when I went to buy a can in, I think, November or December, I tried like 3 supermarkets and all I could find was a Wegmans store carrying their own label of San Marzano DOP Certified tomatoes. I bought just 1 can, I think it was around $4.59(!) for a 28oz can... it was so much it shocked me! Then a week or so later I went to a Price-Rite that carries Cento & they had NONE! Then after Christmas, I went to a Price-Rite again and they were under $3 and the "Italian"  & "Product of Italy" cans were under $2. Now the DOP are $2.49 and the 35oz "Product of Italy" cans $1.69 (by the way, they are all stamped "ROA" in the digitized code on the can--do a search on THIS site for "ROA CENTO") and the 14.5oz "Product of Italy" easy open cans are $1.49 and Cento's site isn't listing a 14.5oz, just "CENTO S.M. ITALIAN TOMATOES 14oz"!!!!!

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2011, 01:57:49 AM »
Anybody see these on Amazon????

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2011, 02:05:27 AM »
Matermark,

Puree is a strange thing...I always look at the ingredients listed on the labels when buying puree.Some do list,"Tomato concentrate or paste,water,salt,citric acid" or whatever is in there they add. I have tried some brands and was never happy with them.

The Purees made straight from tomatoes or tomato pulp has been much more flavorful for using as a base to build a sauce.Always look at the label and know what you are testing out.

For example,Red Gold,makes a Puree I tested,that list ingredients as,Tomato concentrate (water, tomato paste), citric acid.

You can see the label here:
http://www.redgold.com/red_gold_company/foodservice/resources/nut_106_tom_pur_1.pdf

I am not telling anyone that this is bad or not to use it,I'm saying for ME,I do not care for Purees made with concentrate,water and paste.It just never tasted right for me for a pizza sauce base.

Also,Red Gold and Red Pack are made by the same company.I have tried a Red Pack fully prepared pizza sauce,and was not too pleased with it on my pizzas.

Listed in the ingredients are : Tomato concentrate (water, tomato paste), high fructose corn syrup, salt, corn syrup, soybean and
olive oil, spices, citric acid, natural flavors.

This is just one example of Pureed/ready sauce I tried,and like many others,I do not care for a concentrated base to begin with,and on top of that,don't care for that high fructose corn syrup added,or soybean oil either.

If someone likes it,thats fine,its just not for me or my pies.I'm not telling anyone not to try it if they haven't yet,do try it out,find what you like.My money spent,I test,compare,and keep looking for new products to try and test.Yet for me,just about anything these days with paste and water is revolting to taste out of the can,and after trying it out on a pizza,I wont use it again.
 :)

-Bill


 

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