Author Topic: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano (Read 13220 times)

matermark · « **Reply #20 on:** April 09, 2011, 02:28:06 AM »

I see what you mean, the way Cento puts on the can, "NOT FROM CONCENTRATE." I think mostly USA brands using USA tomatoes (California?) must make a concentrate since they can't harvest tomatoes yearlong. Then they reconstitute it whenever they make a batch, as needed.

I think the Cento certified ones even say the year of the harvest.

As for the DOP vs Italian 35oz vs "Product of Italy" I think we will get this answer;

"Our imported Italian tomatoes are San Marzano. Cento 35 oz. Italian Peeled Tomatoes and Cento 28 oz. San Marzano D.O.P. Certified are both San Marzano. You will find that the 28 oz. D.O.P. Certified are more costly than the 35 oz. tomatoes. While they are both varieties are from the San Marzano region, the 28 oz. D.O.P. certified simply guarantees the point of origin and that the tomatoes were grown in compliance with Italian laws. A certification fee is factored in to the cost of the D.O.P. certified."

norma427 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 09, 2011, 07:39:29 AM »

I thought there was a good article recently on Pizza Quest about different brands of DOP San Marzano tomatoes, and others, if anyone is interested in reading it. http://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/contributors/45-guest-bloggers/181-let-the-buyer-beware.html

Norma

FeCheF · « **Reply #22 on:** April 09, 2011, 01:21:00 PM »

Some of you guys are missing the point.Regardless is the D.O.P. stamp is just a label, and doesnt reflect a difference in the quality and type of the tomatoes inside the can, the issue here is that the stores are selling these cans at the same price as the ones with the stamp.So to me, someone is scamming us consumers.I bought a few cans of these "certified" on sale for $2.99 at pathmark, but my wife works at weis supermarkets, and they are selling these same "certified" cans for $4.99 !

chickenparm · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2011, 02:00:23 PM »

Quote from: FeCheF on April 09, 2011, 01:21:00 PM

Some of you guys are missing the point.Regardless is the D.O.P. stamp is just a label, and doesnt reflect a difference in the quality and type of the tomatoes inside the can, the issue here is that the stores are selling these cans at the same price as the ones with the stamp.So to me, someone is scamming us consumers.I bought a few cans of these "certified" on sale for $2.99 at pathmark, but my wife works at weis supermarkets, and they are selling these same "certified" cans for $4.99 !

Fechef,
Sorry I went off the subject a bit.Got carried away again.I have to say,the DOP is probably not much different than someone slapping on Premium or Gourmet on the cover of something and trying to make it alot more than it really is.

My S/M cans says certified,not DOP,(they didnt have any DOP cans anyway) and I dont think Im ever gonna care that it says certified,unless its a miracle tomato in the can when I open it.

chickenparm · « **Reply #24 on:** April 09, 2011, 02:07:21 PM »

Quote from: norma427 on April 09, 2011, 07:39:29 AM

I thought there was a good article recently on Pizza Quest about different brands of DOP San Marzano tomatoes, and others, if anyone is interested in reading it. http://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/contributors/45-guest-bloggers/181-let-the-buyer-beware.html

Norma

Thats a great article Norma!
Thanks for posting that.

Im waiting for my local Amish farmers to bring their home grown tomatoes out soon and sell at the market.Those are always the best around in the areas.No need to worry about labels or certifications with those.

matermark · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2011, 03:17:42 PM »

all mine that I paid $2.49 for are DOP CERTIFIED and have various serial #s, some that start with 2 and some that start with 4.

All my "Product of Italy" cans are san marzanos according to cento, and costed me $1.69 for a 35oz can that when shaken made very little splashing noise--I didn't count the exact # of maters but they had many more than the $2.49 can. Not only did they cost 32% less, they had in theory 25% MORE product. Also, all cans had the ROA stamp, that is, the digitized code on one end of the can started with "ROA." Jeff Varasano may be able to add more about this.

Ironic we spend so much time on this subject of whole peeled tomatoes, especially since, in the last taste test of whole peeled tomatoes, America's Test Kitchen's top 3 recommended varieties were actually

1. Progresso Italian-Style Whole Peeled Tomatoes with Basil ( "The winner in all three tastings. "Mmmm—bright, lively flavor and silky texture," said one taster. "The perfect balance of acidic and fruity notes," said another. Some disliked the basil, but all were impressed with the firm, fresh texture. Fairly salty." )

2. Redpack Whole Peeled Tomatoes in Thick Puree ( "Were it not for the slightly "processed-tasting ketchup quality" of the puree, this "bright, sweet, and balanced" brand might have come out on top. Tasters liked the bold acidity and the full flavor, but some noted minor "metallic off-tastes." )

3. Hunt's Whole Tomatoes ( "On tasting the quick sauce, one panelist said, "This one tastes the most like ripe, fresh tomatoes." But a few tasters found Hunt’s too mild in the long-simmered sauce." )

I got a kick out of Tuttorosso, which finished next in line, ("Basil—with just a hint of tomato," joked one taster, referring to the prominent herbal notes. But even those distracted by the "vegetal, perfumey" overtones had to admit that the tomatoes underneath were bright and nicely balanced, "like freshly picked garden tomatoes." )

Tuttorosso had the most weight of tomatoes in a 28oz can too: 12.8oz.

SanMarzanoTomato · « **Reply #26 on:** April 09, 2011, 05:34:17 PM »

I felt compelled to register and explain the deal about the whole D.O.P. San Marzano tomato issue.

A little background info - I work in the Italian food business importing products from Italy and know all about the rules and regulations regarding D.O.P. tomatoes. I'd rather not say who I work for because I don't want anyone to consider me advertising. I'm also posting because there is a major buzz going on in the Italian food business about what's pictured in this post.

There were generally 2 types of peeled plum tomatoes coming from Italy. If the tomato is grown in Italy, but not in the San Marzano region, they're regular peeled tomatoes. Then you have these regular peeled tomatoes grown in the San Marzano region. They are actually hybrids of the real San Marzano tomatoes. Good, but not as great as the real thing. For years companies would put San Marzano on the label and everything was okay. Then in the 90's the consortium was formed and they decided that these tomatoes aren't true San Marzano tomatoes. In reality, they are correct. The true San Marzano tomato is a unique Italian peeled tomato with it's own DNA makeup. It's in a class all of its own. Making these tomato type number 3. If you've ever had real San Marzano tomatoes, you'd know. They taste like candy right out of the can. They're considered the "King Tomato". Only the consortium can certify these tomatoes and only the consortium can issue the labels. They have an agreement with a label company in Italy - who I won't mention - who are the only ones allowed to print San Marzano D.O.P. labels. Once the consortium formed, they forced Italian customs to stop ANY container leaving Italy that had the words San Marzano on the label that wasn't D.O.P. certified. This was the consortium's way to protect the real San Marzano tomatoes from regular hybrid tomatoes being grown in the same region. If you go to sanmarzanotomatoes.org you can read about the history of the tomato in more detail then me posting about it. The author of that site goes into the DNA of the tomato and that the consortium formed to protect the consumer from inferior product. There is also another site that sells a pdf file of the DNA structure of the tomato. For $31.50 you can buy the report on sciencedirect.com that explains the whole DNA difference. This is what the consortium is desperately trying to protect. When you buy a can of D.O.P. certified for that $2.99 price or higher, you're actually giving money to the consortium to protect these tomatoes. That's why they have serial numbers.

Now, you may say, I bought a can of D.O.P. certified and they don't taste any different. You probably bought regular tomatoes and the packer in Italy labeled them as D.O.P. because as Americans, I hate to say, we're stupid. He got top dollar and we got swindled. It's happened to me 5 years ago. That's why I'm saying it. I've had sample cans of real D.O.P. tomatoes. They are amazing. Then I've received the product and they were regular tomatoes. It's sad that they do this but once in America, who's going to stop them? That's when the consortium stepped in last year and only allowed the one label company to print the labels. Anyone doing taste comparisons with a bunch of different tomatoes and saying the D.O.P. is overpriced and there isn't a difference aren't using real D.O.P. tomatoes. They're just using cans labeled as D.O.P.. It hurts the San Marzano reputation, it hurts the consortium and it hurts our wallets.

The label in this post says "certified" and San Marzano. But to pass these off as D.O.P. - they're not. They're probably just regular tomatoes that are grown in the region where the real D.O.P.'s are grown. They should be selling for the regular San Marzano "area" price. I'd say under $2.00 a can.

Now back to the D.O.P. tomatoes. My company has around 200 cases left. After they're gone, that's it. We have to wait until August when the new crop is packed. The D.O.P. tomatoes are sold out. They've been sold out since November of last year. With the consortium governing who can print labels and what leaves the ports, if you didn't import any before November, you can't get any until September.

So how did these get labeled and shipped? Anything is possible when you try hard enough.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2011, 08:05:22 PM »

What a fascinating post. Thank you so much for the information. Can you let us know what companies sell the real DOP?

John

matermark · « **Reply #28 on:** April 09, 2011, 11:10:36 PM »

I find it amazing that this most amazing forum gets the most amazing posts from the most amazing people at the most amazing times! How is that?

As a part time tomato breeder, I'm not gullable and I'm not buying the explanation yet.

There's more 'splainin' to do, like why there has been one OP (open pollinated) variety known as San Marzano for many years but the govt had to check tomatoes and actually had TWENTY SEVEN distinct varieties that "fit the bill" of what San Marzano SHOULD BE LIKE and this got whittled down to TWO! What did they compare them to? Why isn't there ONE SAN MARZANO?

As for legitimacy on this board, I'm sure mods can check IP addresses to compare to others to see if a new poster has perhaps posted before under another name and mods will take appropriate actions if any are needed.

I know you really felt compelled to post an explanation, but where were you all this time? Why were you here, do you just read the messages and never have a need to ask any questions or provide answers to others until now?

My point is that it was granted Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) in 1996! What happened for the last 15 years?!

chickenparm · « **Reply #29 on:** April 10, 2011, 12:50:23 AM »

Matermark,
Read this old link...page 2 is really interesting..

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1476.0.html

matermark · « **Reply #30 on:** April 10, 2011, 03:04:10 AM »

Thanks chickenparm!

chickenparm · « **Reply #31 on:** April 10, 2011, 04:11:07 AM »

Quote from: matermark on April 10, 2011, 03:04:10 AM

Thanks chickenparm!

Like you said,all these folks sign up,post some info and never come back after a few posts.
$:-\$

Matthew · « **Reply #32 on:** April 10, 2011, 05:25:55 AM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on April 09, 2011, 08:05:22 PM

What a fascinating post. Thank you so much for the information. Can you let us know what companies sell the real DOP?

John

John,
I'm not sure if these are available to you, but these are the ones that I use & they are phenomenal. I buy them wholesale for $40/case, they retail for $4.25/can & worth every penny.

Matt

dellavecchia · « **Reply #33 on:** April 10, 2011, 07:09:37 AM »

Quote from: Matthew on April 10, 2011, 05:25:55 AM

John,
I'm not sure if these are available to you, but these are the ones that I use & they are phenomenal. I buy them wholesale for $40/case, they retail for $4.25/can & worth every penny.

Matt

Matt- I can't read the label. Which brand are they?

John

andreguidon · « **Reply #34 on:** April 10, 2011, 07:59:58 AM »

those look like agrigenus... certified by IS.ME.CERT. VERY GOOD !!

SanMarzanoTomato · « **Reply #35 on:** April 10, 2011, 08:19:03 AM »

In response to Matermark...
I appreciate your passion and skepticism. Like I said in my original post, this has been the buzz in the Italian food industry. Go to Google, type "cento certified" and the original post from FeCheF comes up. I never heard of this site until then. I wanted to see if consumers were questioning this label like the rest of us are.
Also, if you read my post, I agree with you that what you get as DOP probably isn't. That's why the consortium got stricter and stricter every few years. Now you can't get labels made unless it's by the one company. They also stop containers leaving to check them.
My advice is to buy what you like. Buy what you feel tastes the best that fits your budget. Don't let someone else tell you what tastes good just because it's expensive and has a serial number.
I'm not here to sway any opinions. Facts are facts. Go to consorziopomodorosanmarzanodop.it to read more.

Quote from: matermark on April 09, 2011, 11:10:36 PM

I find it amazing that this most amazing forum gets the most amazing posts from the most amazing people at the most amazing times! How is that?

As a part time tomato breeder, I'm not gullable and I'm not buying the explanation yet.

There's more 'splainin' to do, like why there has been one OP (open pollinated) variety known as San Marzano for many years but the govt had to check tomatoes and actually had TWENTY SEVEN distinct varieties that "fit the bill" of what San Marzano SHOULD BE LIKE and this got whittled down to TWO! What did they compare them to? Why isn't there ONE SAN MARZANO?

As for legitimacy on this board, I'm sure mods can check IP addresses to compare to others to see if a new poster has perhaps posted before under another name and mods will take appropriate actions if any are needed.

I know you really felt compelled to post an explanation, but where were you all this time? Why were you here, do you just read the messages and never have a need to ask any questions or provide answers to others until now?

My point is that it was granted Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) in 1996! What happened for the last 15 years?!

Matthew · « **Reply #36 on:** April 10, 2011, 10:09:58 AM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on April 10, 2011, 07:09:37 AM

Matt- I can't read the label. Which brand are they?

John

Sorry John, Andre is correct. I was going to include a link to their website but forgot. Here it is: www.agrigenus.com

Matt

andreguidon · « **Reply #37 on:** April 10, 2011, 10:27:21 AM »

we have these here, they are hard to buy cause the importer only sells to 1 or 2 restaurants, but some times i get them to sell me some cans...

dellavecchia · « **Reply #38 on:** April 10, 2011, 12:52:17 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on April 10, 2011, 10:09:58 AM

Sorry John, Andre is correct. I was going to include a link to their website but forgot. Here it is: www.agrigenus.com

Matt

Thanks Matt and Andre. I found a place in the US that sells them under a house label. I am going to buy a case:

http://www.capri-flavors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_61&products_id=53

John

BrickStoneOven · « **Reply #39 on:** April 10, 2011, 02:17:23 PM »

Quote from: matermark on April 09, 2011, 11:10:36 PM

As for legitimacy on this board, I'm sure mods can check IP addresses to compare to others to see if a new poster has perhaps posted before under another name and mods will take appropriate actions if any are needed.

I know you really felt compelled to post an explanation, but where were you all this time? Why were you here, do you just read the messages and never have a need to ask any questions or provide answers to others until now?

There are 7991 members that have never posted a single message.

How do you know if the label is a real stamp or not. Are they supposed to look like the stamp on the can Matt posted?