Author Topic: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano  (Read 30805 times)

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Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2011, 03:17:42 PM »
all mine that I paid $2.49 for are DOP CERTIFIED and have various serial #s, some that start with 2 and some that start with 4.

All my "Product of Italy" cans are san marzanos according to cento, and costed me $1.69 for a 35oz can that when shaken made very little splashing noise--I didn't count the exact # of maters but they had many more than the $2.49 can. Not only did they cost 32% less, they had in theory 25% MORE product. Also, all cans had the ROA stamp, that is, the digitized code on one end of the can started with "ROA." Jeff Varasano may be able to add more about this.

Ironic we spend so much time on this subject of whole peeled tomatoes, especially since, in the last taste test of whole peeled tomatoes, America's Test Kitchen's top 3 recommended varieties were actually

1. Progresso Italian-Style Whole Peeled Tomatoes with Basil ( "The winner in all three tastings. "Mmmm—bright, lively flavor and silky texture," said one taster. "The perfect balance of acidic and fruity notes," said another. Some disliked the basil, but all were impressed with the firm, fresh texture. Fairly salty." )

2. Redpack Whole Peeled Tomatoes in Thick Puree ( "Were it not for the slightly "processed-tasting ketchup quality" of the puree, this "bright, sweet, and balanced" brand might have come out on top. Tasters liked the bold acidity and the full flavor, but some noted minor "metallic off-tastes." )

3. Hunt's Whole Tomatoes ( "On tasting the quick sauce, one panelist said, "This one tastes the most like ripe, fresh tomatoes." But a few tasters found Hunt’s too mild in the long-simmered sauce." )

I got a kick out of Tuttorosso, which finished next in line, ("Basil—with just a hint of tomato," joked one taster, referring to the prominent herbal notes. But even those distracted by the "vegetal, perfumey" overtones had to admit that the tomatoes underneath were bright and nicely balanced, "like freshly picked garden tomatoes." )

Tuttorosso had the most weight of tomatoes in a 28oz can too: 12.8oz.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 03:33:43 PM by matermark »


Offline SanMarzanoTomato

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2011, 05:34:17 PM »
I felt compelled to register and explain the deal about the whole D.O.P. San Marzano tomato issue.

A little background info - I work in the Italian food business importing products from Italy and know all about the rules and regulations regarding D.O.P. tomatoes. I'd rather not say who I work for because I don't want anyone to consider me advertising. I'm also posting because there is a major buzz going on in the Italian food business about what's pictured in this post.

There were generally 2 types of peeled plum tomatoes coming from Italy. If the tomato is grown in Italy, but not in the San Marzano region, they're regular peeled tomatoes. Then you have these regular peeled tomatoes grown in the San Marzano region. They are actually hybrids of the real San Marzano tomatoes. Good, but not as great as the real thing. For years companies would put San Marzano on the label and everything was okay. Then in the 90's the consortium was formed and they decided that these tomatoes aren't true San Marzano tomatoes. In reality, they are correct. The true San Marzano tomato is a unique Italian peeled tomato with it's own DNA makeup. It's in a class all of its own. Making these tomato type number 3. If you've ever had real San Marzano tomatoes, you'd know. They taste like candy right out of the can. They're considered the "King Tomato". Only the consortium can certify these tomatoes and only the consortium can issue the labels. They have an agreement with a label company in Italy - who I won't mention - who are the only ones allowed to print San Marzano D.O.P. labels. Once the consortium formed, they forced Italian customs to stop ANY container leaving Italy that had the words San Marzano on the label that wasn't D.O.P. certified. This was the consortium's way to protect the real San Marzano tomatoes from regular hybrid tomatoes being grown in the same region. If you go to sanmarzanotomatoes.org you can read about the history of the tomato in more detail then me posting about it. The author of that site goes into the DNA of the tomato and that the consortium formed to protect the consumer from inferior product. There is also another site that sells a pdf file of the DNA structure of the tomato. For $31.50 you can buy the report on sciencedirect.com that explains the whole DNA difference. This is what the consortium is desperately trying to protect. When you buy a can of D.O.P. certified for that $2.99 price or higher, you're actually giving money to the consortium to protect these tomatoes. That's why they have serial numbers.

Now, you may say, I bought a can of D.O.P. certified and they don't taste any different. You probably bought regular tomatoes and the packer in Italy labeled them as D.O.P. because as Americans, I hate to say, we're stupid. He got top dollar and we got swindled. It's happened to me 5 years ago. That's why I'm saying it. I've had sample cans of real D.O.P. tomatoes. They are amazing. Then I've received the product and they were regular tomatoes. It's sad that they do this but once in America, who's going to stop them? That's when the consortium stepped in last year and only allowed the one label company to print the labels. Anyone doing taste comparisons with a bunch of different tomatoes and saying the D.O.P. is overpriced and there isn't a difference aren't using real D.O.P. tomatoes. They're just using cans labeled as D.O.P.. It hurts the San Marzano reputation, it hurts the consortium and it hurts our wallets.

The label in this post says "certified" and San Marzano. But to pass these off as D.O.P. - they're not. They're probably just regular tomatoes that are grown in the region where the real D.O.P.'s are grown. They should be selling for the regular San Marzano "area" price. I'd say under $2.00 a can.

Now back to the D.O.P. tomatoes. My company has around 200 cases left. After they're gone, that's it. We have to wait until August when the new crop is packed. The D.O.P. tomatoes are sold out. They've been sold out since November of last year. With the consortium governing who can print labels and what leaves the ports, if you didn't import any before November, you can't get any until September.

So how did these get labeled and shipped? Anything is possible when you try hard enough.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2011, 08:05:22 PM »
What a fascinating post. Thank you so much for the information. Can you let us know what companies sell the real DOP?

John

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2011, 11:10:36 PM »
I find it amazing that this most amazing forum gets the most amazing posts from the most amazing people at the most amazing times! How is that?

As a part time tomato breeder, I'm not gullable and I'm not buying the explanation yet.

There's more 'splainin' to do, like why there has been one OP (open pollinated) variety known as San Marzano for many years but the govt had to check tomatoes and actually had TWENTY SEVEN distinct varieties that "fit the bill" of what San Marzano SHOULD BE LIKE and this got whittled down to TWO! What did they compare them to? Why isn't there ONE SAN MARZANO?

As for legitimacy on this board, I'm sure mods can check IP addresses to compare to others to see if a new poster has perhaps posted before under another name and mods will take appropriate actions if any are needed.

I know you really felt compelled to post an explanation, but where were you all this time? Why were you here, do you just read the messages and never have a need to ask any questions or provide answers to others until now?

My point is that it was granted Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) in 1996! What happened for the last 15 years?!

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2011, 12:50:23 AM »
Matermark,
Read this old link...page 2 is really interesting..

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1476.0.html
-Bill

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2011, 03:04:10 AM »
Thanks chickenparm!  :-X

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2011, 04:11:07 AM »
Thanks chickenparm!  :-X

Like you said,all these folks sign up,post some info and never come back after a few posts.
 :-\
-Bill

Offline Matthew

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2011, 05:25:55 AM »
What a fascinating post. Thank you so much for the information. Can you let us know what companies sell the real DOP?

John

John,
I'm not sure if these are available to you, but these are the ones that I use & they are phenomenal.  I buy them wholesale for $40/case, they retail for $4.25/can & worth every penny.

Matt
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 05:31:19 AM by Matthew »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2011, 07:09:37 AM »
John,
I'm not sure if these are available to you, but these are the ones that I use & they are phenomenal.  I buy them wholesale for $40/case, they retail for $4.25/can & worth every penny.

Matt

Matt- I can't read the label. Which brand are they?

John


Offline andreguidon

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2011, 07:59:58 AM »
those look like agrigenus... certified by IS.ME.CERT. VERY GOOD !!
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline SanMarzanoTomato

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2011, 08:19:03 AM »
In response to Matermark...
I appreciate your passion and skepticism. Like I said in my original post, this has been the buzz in the Italian food industry. Go to Google, type "cento certified" and the original post from FeCheF comes up. I never heard of this site until then. I wanted to see if consumers were questioning this label like the rest of us are.
Also, if you read my post, I agree with you that what you get as DOP probably isn't. That's why the consortium got stricter and stricter every few years. Now you can't get labels made unless it's by the one company. They also stop containers leaving to check them.
My advice is to buy what you like. Buy what you feel tastes the best that fits your budget. Don't let someone else tell you what tastes good just because it's expensive and has a serial number.
I'm not here to sway any opinions. Facts are facts. Go to consorziopomodorosanmarzanodop.it to read more.

I find it amazing that this most amazing forum gets the most amazing posts from the most amazing people at the most amazing times! How is that?

As a part time tomato breeder, I'm not gullable and I'm not buying the explanation yet.

There's more 'splainin' to do, like why there has been one OP (open pollinated) variety known as San Marzano for many years but the govt had to check tomatoes and actually had TWENTY SEVEN distinct varieties that "fit the bill" of what San Marzano SHOULD BE LIKE and this got whittled down to TWO! What did they compare them to? Why isn't there ONE SAN MARZANO?

As for legitimacy on this board, I'm sure mods can check IP addresses to compare to others to see if a new poster has perhaps posted before under another name and mods will take appropriate actions if any are needed.

I know you really felt compelled to post an explanation, but where were you all this time? Why were you here, do you just read the messages and never have a need to ask any questions or provide answers to others until now?

My point is that it was granted Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) in 1996! What happened for the last 15 years?!

Offline Matthew

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2011, 10:09:58 AM »
Matt- I can't read the label. Which brand are they?

John

Sorry John, Andre is correct.   I was going to include a link to their website but forgot.  Here it is: www.agrigenus.com


Matt

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2011, 10:27:21 AM »
we have these here, they are hard to buy cause the importer only sells to 1 or 2 restaurants, but some times i get them to sell me some cans...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2011, 12:52:17 PM »
Sorry John, Andre is correct.   I was going to include a link to their website but forgot.  Here it is: www.agrigenus.com


Matt

Thanks Matt and Andre. I found a place in the US that sells them under a house label. I am going to buy a case:

http://www.capri-flavors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_61&products_id=53

John

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2011, 02:17:23 PM »
As for legitimacy on this board, I'm sure mods can check IP addresses to compare to others to see if a new poster has perhaps posted before under another name and mods will take appropriate actions if any are needed.

I know you really felt compelled to post an explanation, but where were you all this time? Why were you here, do you just read the messages and never have a need to ask any questions or provide answers to others until now?

There are 7991 members that have never posted a single message.

How do you know if the label is a real stamp or not. Are they supposed to look like the stamp on the can Matt posted?

Offline wheelman

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2011, 03:46:00 PM »
i found these last night.  i haven't tried this brand before but i noticed the DOP. it also has the crop date (2009) which i don't remember seeing before.  i was buying DOP Centos up until about a month ago at WF.  they only have Certified now.

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2011, 04:15:03 PM »
There are 7991 members that have never posted a single message.

How do you know if the label is a real stamp or not. Are they supposed to look like the stamp on the can Matt posted?

As for the members, don't you find that post somewhat anonymous and "perfectly timed?"

As for the bold print above:

See the first post of the first page of this thread, it shows the Cento can and the stamp they use for D.O.P.

Are you suggesting that a very large well known company with office in NJ would EVEN CONSIDER faking labels?

Are you suggesting that someone faked out Cento? Or someone sold fakes to supermarkets? Or that supermarkets are doing it?

If you want, I can try to take a pic of my cento DOP cans showing their serial #s, but they look just like the first post's pic's #s. The #s are far apart yet bought from the same store.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 04:20:31 PM by matermark »


Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2011, 04:40:31 PM »
Are you suggesting that a very large well known company with office in NJ would EVEN CONSIDER faking labels?

Are you suggesting that someone faked out Cento? Or someone sold fakes to supermarkets? Or that supermarkets are doing it?

If you want, I can try to take a pic of my cento DOP cans showing their serial #s, but they look just like the first post's pic's #s. The #s are far apart yet bought from the same store.

IDK if your being sarcastic or not sinces it's the internet and tone is lost in translation. I was just asking a normal question how your supposed to know if it's a real stamp or not. I checked the LaRegina DOP can I have and it looks like the stamp on the Cento can and the one Matt posted. There is another one that I got from Whole Foods called Famosa and they have the stamp as well.

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2011, 04:57:02 PM »
IDK if your being sarcastic or not sinces it's the internet and tone is lost in translation. I was just asking a normal question how your supposed to know if it's a real stamp or not. I checked the LaRegina DOP can I have and it looks like the stamp on the Cento can and the one Matt posted. There is another one that I got from Whole Foods called Famosa and they have the stamp as well.

All the DOP cans I've seen look to be authentic. Even the Serial #s seem to be... almost.... stamped in, like embossed.

I'm not the person who suggested faked DOP cans, I didn't think that at all. I thought someone here says if you are eating them and they are not great then they are bogus (that's not a quote but you get what I mean.) There's a lot of advertising and pushing SM tomatoes going on in this thread!

I don't know why Cento went to a label that only says CERTIFIED. I can understand why they are putting the same SM tomatoes in cans marked ROA and giving you 25% more product at 32% off though.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2011, 05:41:46 PM »
Folks I have tried out 2 cento cans,one is a regular Cento puree,and the other is the Cento san marzano certified peeled tomatoes.(28 oz cans)

Both are very good products,and taste great. That said,I'm curious as to every things thats been said so far,Is the one can,the certified peeled tomatoes, grown and packed from Italy or are you guys thinking its the label trying to sell something more than it is?

This is the same  28 oz can that was shown in the pictures earlier on this thread,no DOP or serial,just says certified on the front of the label.

Its not a huge deal to me,because I'm not going to buy it just because it has a fancy label,or came from a certain place.I go by taste and how easily I can buy something.I'm just curious because I want to know what they actually taste like from over there,to compare it to stuff here.If this is the real deal,then thats great,I can use that for a reference.

Also,That link to the TITINA's cans looks promising so far as well.


 :)


-Bill

Offline FeCheF

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2011, 08:32:58 PM »
I havent opened the "certified" cans i bought yet, but i can tell you that as a chili head, I dont even care for the "D.O.P. certified" Cento's. So far the best canned tomatoes i have found with very low acidity has been Wegmans brand D.O.P. San Marzano's. And also Pomi brand in the box are pretty good for not being even labeled as San Marzano's.

Offline matermark

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2011, 08:50:52 PM »
Where in WNY are you?

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2011, 09:02:17 PM »
Fechef,

When I drained the Cento certified SM peeled tomatoes,all the puree juice that was drained out,tasted like a really good tomato soup,if that makes any sense to you.I'm not sure how to describe it here,but that is the best way.Its was very tomatoe-y tasting in juice form.I always taste the juice or whatever gets drained out to the bowl and then see how the tomatoes taste as well.Kinda of a learning process to see what hits the spot and what not with different brands before cooking with them.

Most of the other brands,when I drain them the juice is kinda bland or bitter.I do know,different cans uses different methods to store them inside.

This can does say, SM puree,basil leaf and salt,while others may not similar ingredients.Im happy with it and will try and buy some more in the future if I can locate it locally.

Will try the other brands you folks listed someday as well.Always looking to try new brands and tomatoes.

-Bill

Offline FeCheF

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2011, 10:36:45 PM »
Fechef,

When I drained the Cento certified SM peeled tomatoes,all the puree juice that was drained out,tasted like a really good tomato soup,if that makes any sense to you.
Will try the other brands you folks listed someday as well.Always looking to try new brands and tomatoes.



To me a good tomato soup is on the sweet side, with natural sugar taste, and no acidic or bitter taste.My favorite tomato soup is progresso tomato and basil.I may have to open a can of these cento certified SM's and taste for myself.

Im the same way about trying new brands.Every time i go to a grocery store i go down the tomato isle to see what brands of SM's they have.Just yesterday i went to a east coast supermarket chain called redners and bought a can of Rosa D.O.P. SM's but they were not as good as Wegmans D.O.P. SM's.

foolishpoolish

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Re: Cento D.O.P. VS Certified San Marzano
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2011, 09:21:02 AM »
Cento

It seems that Cento imports at least some of its tomatoes from a company known as La Regina di San Marzano di Antonio Romano based in Salerno. Their website is here: http://www.lareginadisanmarzano.com/sito/home.htm

Their corporate video features their processing plant ( http://www.lareginadisanmarzano.com/sito/aziendaok.htm ). Its appearance seems to match the photos shown on Cento's own Facebook entries from Sept. 2010:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=463288001943&set=a.210621131943
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465187951943&set=a.210621131943
(requires Facebook log in)

Here is information from a shipment dated November 18 2010 from La Regina di San Marzano to Alanric Food Distributors at "100 Cento Blvd Thorofare NJ", the same address as Cento Fine Foods:
http://panjiva.com/La-Regina-Di-San-Marzano-Di-Antonio-Romano-S-R-L/1160907
[NOTE: In the future, this url might not lead to information on the correct shipment. This is due to Panjiva continually updating its "free" shipping information]

Alanric Food Distributors are the owners of the Cento trademark:
https://www.trademarkia.com/cento-85194412.html

Other info regarding San Marzano tomatoes below...

European Union

•   1996 Application for PDO Status: http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/quality/door/documentDisplay.html?chkDocument=2618_1_en
•   In the same year, the official EU journal recognised Pomodoro S. Marzano dell'Agro Sarnese-Nocerino as a registered PDO: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31996R1263:EN:NOT  This is also referred to as "Regulation EC 1263-96" by the "Consortium" (see later)
•   Application for amendments to the PDO specifications (included changes to labelling) was submitted in 2003. Publication of this application in 2010: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2010:073:0042:0048:EN:PDF

Consortium

The Consorzio di Tutela del Pomodoro San Marzano dell'Agro Sarnese Nocerino DOP is perhaps the better known "face" of the San Marzano tomato. The Consoritum website provides the following PDO-related information:
•   Regulation: http://www.consorziopomodorosanmarzanodop.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=45&Itemid=76&lang=en
•   Geographical Area: http://www.consorziopomodorosanmarzanodop.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=46&Itemid=77&lang=en
•   As mentioned earlier, "Regulation EC 1263-96": http://www.consorziopomodorosanmarzanodop.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=81&lang=en

IS.ME.CERT

The aforementioned Consortium is NOT the authority/controlling body responsible for certification. In this regard, it is aided by the Istituto Meditteraneo di Certificazione Agroalimentare  or IS.ME.CERT for short. The IS.ME.CERT documentation regarding Pomodoro San Marzano, including various registration forms and details of certification costs, can be found here: http://www.ismecert.com/modulisticapomodoro.htm
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 10:06:23 AM by foolishpoolish »


 

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