Author Topic: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven  (Read 5459 times)

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Offline Arthur

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My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« on: May 03, 2005, 12:05:36 PM »
I finally was able to use someones wood burning oven to cook my pizza.  The differences between the two pizzas were incredible.  This is not to say that one was better than the other, just that the pizza was so different it seemed like two totally different recipes, but it wasn't!

I made four dough balls - used 2 with the wood burning oven and 2 with my home electric oven.   The wood burning oven at 800 degrees (1000 on top) cooked the pizza in 1 to 1.5 minutes.  My home oven at 550 degrees cooked the pizza in 7-8 minutes.

Things I noticed about the wood burning oven pizza:
- the dough- what a difference!  This dough turned out soft, yet still foldable.  The dough was very similar to the dough at Patsy's and Lombardi's.  The taste and smell (of wood) was incredible. 
- the cheese - my use of firm fresh mozz turned out to be bad in this case since the cheese didn't cook as much (see pictures below).  I probably would have been better off with soft fresh mozz.  The cheese typically came off of the pizza in a slice while eating it.
- the sauce - explosively delicious! Even though I used the same sauce (vantia) it tasted incredible.  I don't think it's the brand and now I understand why I liked patsy's sauce so much.  Since the sauce barely gets cooked it tastes just like it's out of the can. 

My wood burning oven pizza is like the patsy's and lombardi's and my electric home pizza is like the NY street pizza (although I use fresh mozz slices and little/no oil and no sugar).

Now to buy one of those wood ovens  :P

« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 12:12:18 PM by Arthur »


Offline Arthur

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2005, 12:07:19 PM »
pictures of my wood burning oven pizza

Offline Arthur

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2005, 12:08:44 PM »
and another - maybe a little overcooked at 1.5 minutes  :)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 12:10:51 PM by Arthur »

Offline Arthur

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2005, 12:09:40 PM »
And my home electric oven pizza:

Offline Arthur

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2005, 12:10:02 PM »
and another picture:

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2005, 01:00:32 PM »
Arthur,

Great job.

Which dough recipe did you use for your pizzas? Even the pizzas made in the home oven look great. Was there a big difference in the flavors of the crusts?

Peter

Offline Arthur

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2005, 01:27:16 PM »
Peter,

thanks...There was a big difference in the flavors.   Obviously it's hard to characterize, but I would say my home oven pizza dough has the taste and crunch of a good NY bagel (at the crust portion) - candy like - NY street pizza.  The wood burning oven dough was softer (more dense since it didn't cook that long?) and more pastry like taste.

My dough recipe uses 60% water with KASL and I use only a small amount of yeast (1/2 teaspoon instant for about 20 oz of flour) with 1 1/4 tea kosher salt.  I coat the resulting dough with olive oil for the fridge.


Offline vitoduke

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2005, 02:31:44 PM »
Arthur-- The pizza looks fantastic--my mouth is watering. I am in the process of building the base for a Forno Bravo wood burning oven. James at Forno Bravo has been a wealth of information in the process, and the on line instructions are  simple. Check them out--    fornobravo.com  I am looking forward to my first pizza out of the oven ---I hope it looks as good as yours---Mel

Offline varasano

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2005, 02:52:49 PM »
looks great. what a difference that extra heat makes. I remember my first pies at high temp and how excited I was...

Offline snowdy

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2005, 04:09:21 AM »
arthur,
that wood burning oven pizza is a freakin BEAUTY!

good work dude!!

do you know the make and model of that oven?

is it inside the house? in the backyard?

:D


Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2005, 07:34:55 AM »
This has been my hunch all along...recipes can vary, ingrediants can change, BUT....you can make a fantastic pie with high heat!! be it a coal oven, electric, grill or whatever...its all in the heat!! Even crusts which I have burned tasted fantastic with the extra charring. This is why places that make their dough the same day can have great pies. Its how its baked in the oven. Your experiement is proof...great pics and great taste as well.

Offline Arthur

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2005, 09:27:14 AM »
do you know the make and model of that oven?

is it inside the house? in the backyard?

:D


It's a mugnaini - this model :

http://www.mugnaini.com/ovens/ovens_120.html

He had his oven outside (outdoor kitchen) within a stone facade - a work of art.  This 48" model was a nice size.  My 17" (or so) pizza fit nicely and I could have placed 2 more (although it would have been tight for three total).  I personally would get smaller since it only takes 1 minute to cook the pizza and I can't even make (prepare) them that fast.

Offline pftaylor

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2005, 07:39:44 AM »
Arthur,
I somehow missed this thread. Sorry for the delayed response.

Wow, I wish I had a neighbor or a friend with a wood burning oven. Your results are mouth watering. I can't wait to begin my patio wood burning oven project.

Every time I read a thread about a wood burning oven I wonder to myself if I should just build it or buy something prefab and be done with it. Tough question until you factor in what pizzanapoletana has been writing about. It seems that most back yard ovens are really designed to bake bread (or other things) and not specifically pizza. I want a real true honest-to-goodness pizza machine. With all the customization I would want anyway (such as the exterior finish) I might as well begin the project with my oven repair friend. I just have to get my head around the fact that it is a learning project as much as a practical one. That way I won't run out of patience.

Thanks for sharing.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline Arthur

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2005, 09:29:10 AM »
PFT,

I've been thinking about the same thing (build or buy).  I am leaning towards buy at this point.  I'll probably buy one of the ready made mugnaini or forno bravo's and have a stone guy "build it" and place a stone facade on the outside.  I wish I was more talented to build one myself, but I already spend too much time making dough, sauce and cheese  ::)

I have to say that once you try your pizza in a wood burning oven it's like taking 2 steps sideways in your pizza quest.  i.e., for so long my pizza has progressed forward.  The wood oven changed the pizza so much that it's like starting from a different place.    The dough is so different that I would need to re-experiment more with my dough.  I agree with one of the other members that the flour doesn't matter as much with the high heat - although I believe it makes a huge difference at the "low" heat (550).    The cheese that I love for my electric oven pizza did not work well with my wood oven pizza.   There are many examples like this.   

I would really suggest finding a wood burning oven locally to make your pizza.  This "friend" was someone who was giving cooking classes and happened to have a pizza oven in his backyard.    The pizza's just come out really different.  I just made my pizza again on Sunday for neighbors using my electric oven and I realized it's a lot like having 2 children.  You love them equally but different.


Offline pftaylor

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2005, 06:51:01 PM »
Arthur,
I haven't built anything other than a career in years. I think its high time to get my hands dirty again and give a home wood burning oven a shot. I do have the luxury of falling back on my associate who repairs wood burning and coal fired ovens so I'm not too adventurous.

The Neapolitan oven ilpizzaiolo and pizzanapoletana describe seems to be a little more complicated than a Forno Bravo Pompeii, but a 30 - 90 second bake may be worth it at the end of the day. Of course, I'm not sure you can get much better than the 1 - 1.5 minute bake you referred too either.

Good luck with your Mugnaini.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline friz78

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2005, 10:46:29 PM »
pft,
If you do indeed build one of these ovens on your own, you will certainly have to start a new thread describing your experience.  You have Pizza Raquel, Pizza Sophia, and now you could just call the wood burning oven thread, "Pizza Heaven!"  Good luck with this.  I can't wait to hear the blow by blow. 

Offline friz78

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2005, 10:54:42 PM »
Arthur,
Your pictures are fantastic and a wonderful lesson for all of us to be REALISTIC about what a standard home oven can produce when it comes to pizza.  The differences in the pictures of your wood burning stove pizza vs. the home oven pizza are so stark it's almost comical to call it a "comparison."  I think those of us that frequent this forum sometimes over-analyze our pizza without accepting the limitations of working with a home oven.  This can then cause us to adjust our recipes and techniques based on the misconception that we can somehow compensate for the lack of heat of our ovens with adjustments to the process and recipe.  The bottom line is to understand what you can control and what you can't control and don't try and change what you can't control.  Focus on getting better in the areas that involve your skills in preparation and baking.  I say this because I am a prime example of someone who failed to realize/admit that my home oven does not and never will operate as effectively as a professional wood burning oven.  Just recently I feel like I can now identify when a deficiency in my pizza is due to the oven and not any specific flaw in my preparation techniques.
Friz

Offline pftaylor

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2005, 09:13:22 AM »
friz78,
You are so right about getting real with respect to our home ovens (or grill in my case). I realized a few months ago that I had maxed out the usefullness of my TEC grill in the area of pizza making. I have accepted it's limitations with a smile and devoted my efforts to understanding the mixing and stretching aspects and procedures of home pizza making. That realization has led to my current position of planning for a wood-fired patio oven to take my pizza making to the next level.

You can be sure that when I start the project I will document its progress with plenty of photographs.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline David

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Re: My Dough with Wood Burning Oven and Electric Home Oven
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2005, 10:40:34 PM »
I just lit my first "Curing" fire today after completing the Dome of my oven yesterday.I would recommend trying to build your own oven to anyone who can afford the time.I had never laid a brick in my life before and have felt a great sense of achievement by attempting to do this myself.I have used a wood burning oven before (MAM from Modena) so knew what kind of results I would get from a dome of that height.I was looking at the oven used by UPN a couple of weeks ago at his original location in Point Pleasant,NJ and that is a pre-fabricated oven with a much  higher dome than the Neapolitan oven as discussed in this forum.What does he use now in Manhattan,I haven't had a chance to get there yet?
I basically followed the plans from the Forno Bravo site and tweaked them to my own desire and capabilities, ending up with a 46" Dia. floor and a 20" dome.The chimney has yet to be completed and the insulation/aesthetic touches etc.I've been frustrated/disappointed like many of you upon finding somewhere that has a wood fired oven and then find out that it is either gas assisted or that they don't know how to use it (normally too low temp./dry hard crust /overcooked)Hence it was a natural progression to build my own oven,that,and I'm sick of paying out for hype and mediocrity .Marco should expand his consulting service to Espresso as the Neapolitans can teach us a whole lot more about that also.
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