Starter% For Room temp

[forzaroma]

I have successfully made cold ferment doughs using up to 20% of my starter( % of total flour), now I am trying to attempt a room temp ferment around 24 total hours. Bulk ferment for around 20 hours ball and then another 4 hours. I want to know what percentage I can get away with using my starter, I know it will have to be way less than using a cold ferment I am just not sure about the number. Thanks.

[Bill/SFNM]

Depends on what you mean by "room temp" - some cultures have fairly narrow temp ranges for optimal activity.

I'm breaking in a new higher-hydration dough formula so still tweaking, but latest batch was 4% of total dough weight @70F for 19hr. ferment, 5hr. proof. Gonna crank it up a bit for next batch.

[forzaroma]

Yes my room temp is around the same 70-72. What would that % be in flour percentage? So I will use 4% as my starting point. My starter took about 4-5 hours to be at its peak activity, so I am pretty on top of it.

[Jackie Tran]

Mike, I've been a bit busy lately so I apologize for not getting to your PM sooner.   In my kitchen at an average temp of 75F, a 2-3% of the flour weight in starter will get me between 20-24H room temp fermentation.   You'll have to play around with the % to dial it in.   Also from our previous discussion on your other thread, you can change the temperature of fermentation to slow it down or speed it up to match your desired time of bake.

Chau

[forzaroma]

Chau no problem I know you have your oven to deal with. Yeah I will start from there thanks, will post pics.

[Bill/SFNM]

you can change the temperature of fermentation to slow it down or speed it up to match your desired time of bake.

Changing temp can effect flavor as well as time.

(Moving this thread over to Starters forum)

[Jackie Tran]

Bill I have read this as well.   I'll usually change the temp of fermentation during the last 2 hours or so for the purpose of timing the dough with my desire time to bake if the dough isn't in sync.   I'll slow down the dough if it seems like it's proofing a bit too fast by putting it in the fridge for a bit or warm it up if it seems a bit slow.   When the oven is ready it's ready.   When the guests are arriving and hungry, no one seems to want to stick around for an extra hour or two while the dough finishes doing it's fermentation thing. 

I'm not sure that this small and short change in temp is really changing the flavor of the dough that much though.  If it is, I'm not at the point that I can detect it.   I'm looking forward to the day that I will be able to though.   

Chau

[Bill/SFNM]

Chau,

I can definitely notice crust flavor differences, but trying to figure out the source has been very difficult. And there has also been the dilemma of detecting a difference but not really feeling that one was better than the other.

Temperature and time are obvious variables, but the strain of the various microbes in the starter are also important. There is no question in my mind that different strains within each culture are active in different temperature ranges. And the amount of time between feeding can effect the population of different critters. Some of these microbes are more sensitive to pH levels. The pH of the dough at the beginning of fermentation is different from that at the end. If you are doing multi-stage fermentations, starting low and then going higher can produce a totally different flavor than starting higher and going low.

At this point, I am too busy with other projects do the testing to figure out what is going on in my dough. Tartine bread has also cut into my pizza making, so I'm only making pies ~1 per week, tweaking here and there and slowly moving forward.


      

[Jackie Tran]

Bill, you are so cool.  You've been at this much longer than I have.  I'm just thrilled to get great texture at the moment.  I'll have to work on developing different flavors down the road. 

Glad to hear that you are moving forward with your Tartine influenced pizza.  I have been playing around with some different yet simple hand techniques recently and making progress as well.   

Chau

[norma427]

I don’t know if anyone is interested, or if this will help,  but I find this chart helpful in knowing the relationship between yeast and temperatures for activity and yeast gassing.  http://www.theartisan.net/dough_fermentation_and_temperature.htm

Norma